Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[PrinceCharles]

during the early 2000's through to 2011, we brought more crowds through etihad stadium than any other team but failed to make money because Essendon (among other reasons) got the prime etihad deal. Because of that, our period of sustained success did very little to benefit the bottom line of the saints financials.

our membership, crowd attendance and corporate sponsors are roughly on par with other similar clubs (western bulldogs, north melbourne, hawks).

unfortunately, we were just never given a fair chance when we moved to docklands and we are still suffering from it.

add to that, we have far far fewer pokies than many of the bigger clubs, with carlton still the worst, making something like 11 million from pokie revenue each year (i stand to be corrected on that point).

anyway, it just pisses me off when people jump in and say saints just live off afl money. We wouldnt be living off AFL money if the AFL had given us a fair shot earlier on.

Hawks have always been the worst, but we're close behind.

 

[JackFlash]

So they should pray they get the same fixture you got this season.

They still had to play every team, travel interstate 6 times and they still had to beat 3 top teams in the finals on their way to 16 in a row!

 

[JackFlash]

Lyon went through a process that took many hours, over a number of days, including presenting to the board.

Sounded extremely thorough.

And that was after the club evidently spent a lot of time working through what type of coach they believed they needed during the review.

Which is what pointed them to Lyon, who they believed fit the bill the best.

The review had Ratten sacked and Lyon as their man back in August. The only process Lyon was interested in was how much he was going to get? he was laughing all the way through any process they put to him, it had very little to do with footy as Lyon himself has said "the list has nothing to do with it".

 

[aussierulesrules]

The review had Ratten sacked and Lyon as their man back in August. The only process Lyon was interested in was how much he was going to get? he was laughing all the way through any process they put to him, it had very little to do with footy as Lyon himself has said "the list has nothing to do with it".

I’ll take your word for that, random anonymous dude on an internet forum.

 

[Pistol Night]

I’ll take your word for that, random anonymous dude on an internet forum.

Im going to copy and paste that to diffuse all future arguments on here

 

[eastfreo75]

Average home game attendance 2022

Saints - 25k
Cats - 26k

We didn't make money from docklands because as was already stated, it was by far and away the worst stadium deal in the AFL hence the AFL buying the ground early. Fairly certain i read online that even with a 25kish home attendance the club still lost money until the AFL took over the statium.

You realise that a large part of Kardinia Park is being developed?

 

[JackFlash]

I’ll take your word for that, random anonymous dude on an internet forum.

Of course a St.Kilda fan would say that, Saints fans have had their head in the sand for 125 years. IMO the Saints would've been far better off going with Harvey and Hayes in the top positions and telling Lyon to take his boring game plan as far away from Moorabbin as possible. The clowns in charge at St.Kilda should've got the boot, not appoint Lyon as new coach! Do they get off scot free now? The Saints have Lyon on a four year deal with a list that is marginally better then the three bottom teams, but a long way from the top five or six. It's going to be a long four years... Footy fans just don't like the truth.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Of course a St.Kilda fan would say that, Saints fans have had their head in the sand for 125 years. IMO the Saints would've been far better off going with Harvey and Hayes in the top positions and telling Lyon to take his boring game plan as far away from Moorabbin as possible. The clowns in charge at St.Kilda should've got the boot, not appoint Lyon as new coach! Do they get off scot free now? The Saints have Lyon on a four year deal with a list that is marginally better then the three bottom teams, but a long way from the top five or six. It's going to be a long four years... Footy fans just don't like the truth.

You’re still just guessing/assuming.

At the end of the day, I don’t give two hoots.

Certainly not enough to read past line one of that rant.

 

[lewdogs]

Of course a St.Kilda fan would say that, Saints fans have had their head in the sand for 125 years. IMO the Saints would've been far better off going with Harvey and Hayes in the top positions and telling Lyon to take his boring game plan as far away from Moorabbin as possible. The clowns in charge at St.Kilda should've got the boot, not appoint Lyon as new coach! Do they get off scot free now? The Saints have Lyon on a four year deal with a list that is marginally better then the three bottom teams, but a long way from the top five or six. It's going to be a long four years... Footy fans just don't like the truth.

What you're saying is clearly misinformed but what I'm really wondering is why do you care so much?

So many seem so triggered by this appointment, I don't see how you could possibly argue we haven't just upgraded our coach.

"Boring gameplan" honestly I'm sorry but what a dumb thing to say, are you ten?

 

[TheUnicorn]

Can he realistically even challenge for a flag with their list? Feel like he needs to make some tough decisions.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Can he realistically even challenge for a flag with their list? Feel like he needs to make some tough decisions.

If he gets anywhere near the best out of all those who were originally drafted in the first round of their respective national drafts that would take us a hell of a long way.

King
Gresham
Billings
Jones
Clark
Coffield
Higgins
Wanganeen-Milera

As would getting the best out of Hill much more consistently again, which Ratts continually failed to do.

The fact we’re likely to have cap space to burn by the end of next year could also help bridge the gap considerably.

 

[VinnieB]

Lyon went through a process that took many hours, over a number of days, including presenting to the board.

Sounded extremely thorough.

I’ll take your word for that, random anonymous dude on an internet forum.

 

[PrinceCharles]

If he gets anywhere near the best out of all those who were originally drafted in the first round of their respective national drafts that would take us a hell of a long way.

King
Gresham
Billings
Jones
Clark
Coffield
Higgins
Wanganeen-Milera

As would getting the best out of Hill much more consistently again, which Ratts continually failed to do.

The fact we’re likely to have cap space to burn by the end of next year could also help bridge the gap considerably.

Nearly every club could say the same though, hell Carlton has the same amount of former first rounders sitting in the reserves. What will be your point of difference?

 

[Plugger35]

Can he realistically even challenge for a flag with their list? Feel like he needs to make some tough decisions.

A lot of people were predicting Collingwood to be a bottom 4 team this year and they ended up finishing top 4 and a kick away from making a Grand Final after bringing in a new coach.

I wouldn't say their list is any better than ours but they were coached better and had a better system, no reason we can't do similar under Ross Lyon.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Don't forget Billings, who's next to Gresh.

Lol

 

[Strange Cat]

A lot of people were predicting Collingwood to be a bottom 4 team this year and they ended up finishing top 4 and a kick away from making a Grand Final after bringing in a new coach.

I wouldn't say their list is any better than ours but they were coached better and had a better system, no reason we can't do similar under Ross Lyon.

Oh that’s very very funny

 

[aussierulesrules]

Nearly every club could say the same though, hell Carlton has the same amount of former first rounders sitting in the reserves. What will be your point of difference?

Sure, and guess what, some of those clubs will significantly improve next season, and some of them won’t, and only time will tell which one we are.

Nearly every club hasn’t just brought in a new coach, who is renowned for getting the best out of just about everyone in his team, though. Lyon has/had some faults, but that’s his bread-and-butter.

The review obviously found that Ratts wasn’t setting high enough standards and wasn’t demanding/ruthless enough, and not a single one of those guys who had the talent to be drafted in the first round tended to play close to their best footy consistently, under Ratts, except for Gresham, so I’m looking forward to seeing if Ross is able to get the best out of them more consistently.

Also needs to be remembered that King, Wanganeen-Milera, Clark, Coffield and Higgins are all still young enough that they haven’t had their “breakout year” yet, so there’s still loads of scope for improvement amongst that lot. A hell of a lot.

Prior to last season, Jones was also one of the very most important pieces in our midfield, but whatever he went through at the beginning of the season clearly took a huge toll on him, as when he returned, he was an absolute shadow of his former self.

Out of the games he played, he had literally one good half, where he looked like he was back to his best. The rest of the time, he might just as well not been out there.

So if he’s in a good headspace again now and has a full preseason, he’s a virtual new recruit for us, along with Coffield and Hayes.

Obviously a lot would have to fall into place for us next season to get back up to the 5th or so we were in 2020, and in the first half of last season, but it’s not as if it’s wildly unlikely, like say Collingwood bouncing back from 17th to top 4 was, when most expected them to be bottom 4.

Ryder will be somewhat of a loss, but he only played in 6 of our 11 wins last season and Marshall plays vastly better in the no.1 ruck role, so if Hayes comes back OK, he’ll largely cancel out the impact of the Ryder loss.

It might even be a net positive, as Ryder was cooked by late in the season, and Marshall is likely to have far more impact than he was having, once back to full-time rucking. He’s carried injury constantly for the last two years, but could easily explode if he’s back to full-fitness.

Outside of that, there’s no-one in our team over 30yo, so there’s far more who are likely to improve next season than there are likely to drop off, due to age.

So I find all this tipping of us to finish bottom 4 or even bottom 2 to be quite bizarre. We haven’t just gutted our list like Hawthorn has and we don’t have a bunch of old guys about to fall if a cliff.

 

[Plugger35]

Oh that’s very very funny

Did you find it funny when we beat you this year with Ratten coaching us? Just imagine what we could do with Ross Lyon coaching us.

 

[Mesc]

Did you find it funny when we beat you this year with Ratten coaching us? Just imagine what we could do with Ross Lyon coaching us.

Yeh but the umpires liked Ratten. They dont like Lyon.

 

[angrynaut]

Nearly every club could say the same though, hell Carlton has the same amount of former first rounders sitting in the reserves. What will be your point of difference?

Why does there need to be a point of difference? Clubs want to develop and utilise talent correctly, St Kilda can improve by doing that.

If you need a point of difference, not every club will do it. Obviously St Kilda hope Lyon will help them get the most out of these players through his coaching.

 

[Plugger35]

Yeh but the umpires liked Ratten. They dont like Lyon.

I reckon we've copped worse umpiring since Lyon left.

 

[WillHayward]

Emotion charged Fred

 

[Present Not Past]

Can he realistically even challenge for a flag with their list? Feel like he needs to make some tough decisions.

LOL. There'll be no flag tilt next season. First comes a shakedown of the players and the pretenders exiting the team next year.
A rebuild next and maybe then, with a bit of luck, a chance to win a flag in a grand final again.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Why does there need to be a point of difference? Clubs want to develop and utilise talent correctly, St Kilda can improve by doing that.

If you need a point of difference, not every club will do it. Obviously St Kilda hope Lyon will help them get the most out of these players through his coaching.

Because the whole point is to win premierships

 

[angrynaut]

Because the whole point is to win premierships

And part of winning premierships isn't developing players and getting the best out of them? I'm not sure I understand your point.