Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

[Joffaboy]

It makes no sense to be a football club and be s**t at the primary directive of being a successful Football club.

But instead…. be great commercially.

Everything we do should be with an intense focus on being the best football side in the country.

Even playing finals regularly would be fantastic for commercial purposes. Because without it, there is little commercial success.

The 2 decades (roughly) we achieved success of being a successful football side. We won a flag or went close in multiple grand finals.

Commercial success has yet to see us win a flag.

Having a well run off field administration never guarantees you have a premiership winning team, however NOT having a well run off field administration guarantees you will never win a premiership.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

It makes no sense to be a football club and be s**t at the primary directive of being a successful Football club.

But instead…. be great commercially.

Everything we do should be with an intense focus on being the best football side in the country.

Even playing finals regularly would be fantastic for commercial purposes. Because without it, there is little commercial success.

The 2 decades (roughly) we achieved success of being a successful football side. We won a flag or went close in multiple grand finals.

Commercial success has yet to see us win a flag.

What a ridiculous argument.

I said we needed to get off field right, including finances, before we can throw everything at being the best on field.

How many clubs have won flags with the arse hanging out of their pants? The only one who got close in recent times was us... and that house of cards fell over very very quickly soon after, mainly because we were an absolute mess off field.

We've never been a commercial success so your last point is moot.

 

[Saints43]

This may be our 1st ever commercially successful period though and we now also probably have the best football department we have ever had, so hopefully we get there this time and if we can become successful we have our structure setup to capitalise on it as well

I would assume that this would be the first time we're effectively debt free and in best in class facilities since 1965?

 

[gringo2011]

Swings, roundabouts and sliding doors.
I can sit here today and say the current state of the club is (touch wood) as good as it has ever been.
In the same way we wouldn't have Max if not for Paddy's soft head.

True but under his era we hit more dead ends than roundabouts. Hopefully we have accumulated the basis of a good side at least.

 

[stavro#4]

What a ridiculous argument.

I said we needed to get off field right, including finances, before we can throw everything at being the best on field.

How many clubs have won flags with the arse hanging out of their pants? The only one who got close in recent times was us... and that house of cards fell over very very quickly soon after, mainly because we were an absolute mess off field.

We've never been a commercial success so your last point is moot.

We have spent the best part of a decade focusing primarily off field as opposed to on it.

The decade prior it was the distinct opposite.

I know which one I enjoyed more.

 

[gringo2011]

Having a well run off field administration never guarantees you have a premiership winning team, however NOT having a well run off field administration guarantees you will never win a premiership.

Winning makes administrations look good. Kennett's Hawks looked the best run club in the land.....now the gloss has washed off.

 

[gringo2011]

We have spent the best part of a decade focusing primarily off field as opposed to on it.

The decade prior it was the distinct opposite.

I know which one I enjoyed more.

It's like old Russians that get nostalgic about the bread lines.

 

[Mowman]

 

[stavro#4]

It's like old Russians that get nostalgic about the bread lines.

If only they worked as hard putting a product that’s worth selling on the field as they do off the field getting people to support a dumpster fire.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Would you put Sincs into the midfield?

I reckon Sinclair can be a match winner if put into the midfield.

 

[King_Steele]

I reckon Sinclair can be a match winner if put into the midfield.

Absolutely.

Need a spot for Coffield who I rate highly. Was on track to be All-Australian in 2020 iirc

 

[prophetic1]

It makes no sense to be a football club and be s**t at the primary directive of being a successful Football club.

But instead…. be great commercially.

Everything we do should be with an intense focus on being the best football side in the country.

Even playing finals regularly would be fantastic for commercial purposes. Because without it, there is little commercial success.

The 2 decades (roughly) we achieved success of being a successful football side. We won a flag or went close in multiple grand finals.

Commercial success has yet to see us win a flag.

Even if we could travel back in time and the 'Primary (Time) Directive' didn't impede our intent to interfere with and change the past we would still * it up.....One has to think its in our DNA...I fear we will never be a successful club. Well not if winning games of footy consistently is the yard stick. Regardless may we 'live long and prosper.'

Congrats in using the prime directive in a sentence regarding footy....in my experience i've seen it used most on Star Trek throughout the years.

 

[AirWinmar]

True but under his era we hit more dead ends than roundabouts. Hopefully we have accumulated the basis of a good side at least.

Finnis started in 2014, before that - we had screwed our salary cap and had Pelchen come in and decimate our list in compromised drafts without an excellent recruitment team.

We were going to have some lean times, but he has set us up commercially very well, which is essentially his job

 

[austinnn]

Having a well run off field administration never guarantees you have a premiership winning team, however NOT having a well run off field administration guarantees you will never win a premiership.

Not sure I agree. If the ball had bounced the other way in 2010, and the draw had been a Saints win, would our admin have been good?

More to the point, was our calamitous admin the reason we didn't win the 2010 premiership?

But I broadly agree with the sentiment - having your off-field in poor shape makes it very tough to maximise your chances.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I reckon Sinclair can be a match winner if put into the midfield.

Absolutely.

Need a spot for Coffield who I rate highly. Was on track to be All-Australian in 2020 iirc

Coffield comes back, we get McKenna and then if you assume Windy and Owens progress and its a real struggle to pick the side especially 2nd winger - NWM, Wood, DMac????

B Paton Howard Wilkie

HB Coffield Battle McKenna

C Hill Steele ????

HF Higgins Membrey Owens

F Butler King Hayes

Foll Marshall Ross Gresham

Int Crouch Sinclair Windhager Jones

 

[Saintbloke]

One big factor in success is when a coach and a playing group all click and are on the same page. This worked OK in RL's previous stint, but it's a different time with different people now and it might be a few years, or maybe never to get this bond happening.

 

[tomjoad]

I think J.Web will do quite well under Lyon's watch. Think we might see the best of him.

 

[King_Steele]

Coffield comes back, we get McKenna and then if you assume Windy and Owens progress and its a real struggle to pick the side especially 2nd winger - NWM, Wood, DMac????

B Paton Howard Wilkie

HB Coffield Battle McKenna

C Hill Steele ????

HF Higgins Membrey Owens

F Butler King Hayes

Foll Marshall Ross Gresham

Int Crouch Sinclair Windhager Jones

NWM for me

 

[gringo2011]

Finnis started in 2014, before that - we had screwed our salary cap and had Pelchen come in and decimate our list in compromised drafts without an excellent recruitment team.

We were going to have some lean times, but he has set us up commercially very well, which is essentially his job

Has he though? How much debt did he inherit and how much is gone. He moved us back to Moorabin but it wasn't free and a huge part of doing better commercially was the AFL distributing us a huge amount of money. Gill was probably more responsible for that, he cared about redistribution. I'm not sure our ability to generate money is massively better. We have a lot of members but we can't get people to attend. You'd think that running matches without fans would actually cost money.

Anyway, I don't think he was good for us, he was safe, we had no major issues and didn't get shut down but he oversaw one of the most depressing eras in my lifetime with a stagnation that seemed unshakable. He really did little to suggest that he was interested in the footy side of the club.

Lethlean is probably the opposite and seems to have a real eye on performance and a president that is even more hungry for success. We still might not get it all right from here but at least they have an eye on it. To me we are making some key appointments, as I said Walsh is like getting our Neil Balme. Someone with a eye on every facet of the running of the football side of the operation with proper experience.

 

[gubby88]

One big factor in success is when a coach and a playing group all click and are on the same page. This worked OK in RL's previous stint, but it's a different time with different people now and it might be a few years, or maybe never to get this bond happening.

Lyon is a successful coach because he is relatable and makes great relationships. I don't see this as an issue.

On SM-F711B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Not sure I agree. If the ball had bounced the other way in 2010, and the draw had been a Saints win, would our admin have been good?

More to the point, was our calamitous admin the reason we didn't win the 2010 premiership?

But I broadly agree with the sentiment - having your off-field in poor shape makes it very tough to maximise your chances.

If it was in great shape we would have easily won those two flags.

A stat of the art facility, more money for better coaches and fitness, surely would have meant a couple of more goals.

Fact is we got close despite being an offield rabble, but we didn't win.

 

[Joffaboy]

If only they worked as hard putting a product that’s worth selling on the field as they do off the field getting people to support a dumpster fire.

We bottomed out just as the compromised drafts took place, we then spent our capital we did have unwisely, Billings McCartin, nothing from Goddard, Dal and McEvoy.

At the same time we were an absolute basket case financially. Had completely ruined ourselves with poor decisions and the AFL continually fixturing us at Docklands with a contract that made us lose money constantly.

The AFL basically installed Finnis who did not want the job. They said we will give you all the support you need if you can fix the finances.
Seems like finances are almost fixed, we have 60k members, an amazing achievement considering our lack of success since 2010 and our history, a fantastic facility back at Moorabbin and finally in the later part of last decade (around 2017) we began to make decent drafting decisions and filling the gaping holes in our lists with trading in good solid senior players.

We have now started on the drafting trail to compliment them, our age demographic is good so we shouldn't unbalance the list with this strategy.
The review said the strategy of trading then drafting and FA was appropriate and that it needed some tweaks.

So in my view it was not one or the other, it was three factors
1) bottoming out at compromised draft time
2) pissing up against the wall the trading and draft capital we did have for about 5 years
3) The AFL pressuring the admin to get its financial house in order.

So this review is a turning point.

The board has no more excuses, it has restructured the the footy dept, it will make informed decisions on reliable. information.

Our finaces are in a good shape to be debt free by next year (or so I have read here), concentration on the footy dept is now paramount now this has occurred and we are settled at Moorabbin for the forseeable future.

The list management has laid a relatively good foundation, Coff and Clark 2017, King in 2018, trading in 2019, FA and trading 2020, 3 beauties in 2021, now we need to nail this one and the next one in drafts.

From my eyes we seem to have all our ducks in a row, lets not f**k it up this time.

 

[hayes]

We bottomed out just as the compromised drafts took place, we then spent our capital we did have unwisely, Billings McCartin, nothing from Goddard, Dal and McEvoy.

At the same time we were an absolute basket case financially. Had completely ruined ourselves with poor decisions and the AFL continually fixturing us at Docklands with a contract that made us lose money constantly.

The AFL basically installed Finnis who did not want the job. They said we will give you all the support you need if you can fix the finances.
Seems like finances are almost fixed, we have 60k members, an amazing achievement considering our lack of success since 2010 and our history, a fantastic facility back at Moorabbin and finally in the later part of last decade (around 2017) we began to make decent drafting decisions and filling the gaping holes in our lists with trading in good solid senior players.

We have now started on the drafting trail to compliment them, our age demographic is good so we shouldn't unbalance the list with this strategy.
The review said the strategy of trading then drafting and FA was appropriate and that it needed some tweaks.

So in my view it was not one or the other, it was three factors
1) bottoming out at compromised draft time
2) pissing up against the wall the trading and draft capital we did have for about 5 years
3) The AFL pressuring the admin to get its financial house in order.

So this review is a turning point.

The board has no more excuses, it has restructured the the footy dept, it will make informed decisions on reliable. information.

Our finaces are in a good shape to be debt free by next year (or so I have read here), concentration on the footy dept is now paramount now this has occurred and we are settled at Moorabbin for the forseeable future.

The list management has laid a relatively good foundation, Coff and Clark 2017, King in 2018, trading in 2019, FA and trading 2020, 3 beauties in 2021, now we need to nail this one and the next one in drafts.

From my eyes we seem to have all our ducks in a row, lets not f**k it up this time.

How was the draft compromised in 2013+14? All the compromises drafts were from 2009-2011. Unfortunately we don’t have compromised drafts as an excuse.

 

[gringo2011]

We bottomed out just as the compromised drafts took place, we then spent our capital we did have unwisely, Billings McCartin, nothing from Goddard, Dal and McEvoy.

At the same time we were an absolute basket case financially. Had completely ruined ourselves with poor decisions and the AFL continually fixturing us at Docklands with a contract that made us lose money constantly.

The AFL basically installed Finnis who did not want the job. They said we will give you all the support you need if you can fix the finances.
Seems like finances are almost fixed, we have 60k members, an amazing achievement considering our lack of success since 2010 and our history, a fantastic facility back at Moorabbin and finally in the later part of last decade (around 2017) we began to make decent drafting decisions and filling the gaping holes in our lists with trading in good solid senior players.

We have now started on the drafting trail to compliment them, our age demographic is good so we shouldn't unbalance the list with this strategy.
The review said the strategy of trading then drafting and FA was appropriate and that it needed some tweaks.

So in my view it was not one or the other, it was three factors
1) bottoming out at compromised draft time
2) pissing up against the wall the trading and draft capital we did have for about 5 years
3) The AFL pressuring the admin to get its financial house in order.

So this review is a turning point.

The board has no more excuses, it has restructured the the footy dept, it will make informed decisions on reliable. information.

Our finaces are in a good shape to be debt free by next year (or so I have read here), concentration on the footy dept is now paramount now this has occurred and we are settled at Moorabbin for the forseeable future.

The list management has laid a relatively good foundation, Coff and Clark 2017, King in 2018, trading in 2019, FA and trading 2020, 3 beauties in 2021, now we need to nail this one and the next one in drafts.

From my eyes we seem to have all our ducks in a row, lets not f**k it up this time.

I agree with a lot of that but King was probably our only real bankable win at the draft so far. Even Nas is a bit of a mess if he wants out, even if he gets us some capital back we have 2 years of wasted development. I hope we don't give Toce the same amount of time as we have with others if he can't find talent.

Anyway, hopefully we are on the right track this time. It's one of the longest rebuilds in the equalisation era. Even with missteps we should have finally amassed enough talent to play finals and give us a sugar hit while adding kids for the future.

 

[Saints43]

I think J.Web will do quite well under Lyon's watch. Think we might see the best of him.

It will be interesting to see who improves and who doesn't want to get involved with the new ways.
I loved Brett Voss as a player and would have expected him to thrive under a coach like Ross but they never meshed.