Perth Stadium (Optus Stadium)

[RedV3x]

Gonna have to agree to disagree. Friday night games are played in peak hour traffic times to suit the east coast,

That's just Friday night and much the same for Burswood.

the stadium isn’t going to be built on Perth train station’s doorstep,

the stadium wasn't built on Perth train station’s doorstep - that's my point,

which means you’re relying on Claisebrook or McIver,

The stadium wasn't built on Perth train station’s doorstep - that's my point,

and Perth is beginning a transition to greater residential that makes a stadium unsuitable right in the heart of the CBD.

and Perth is beginning a transition to greater residential that makes a stadium ideal for the heart of the CBD.

The stadium’s location is 5 mins on a train and as the city expands, its location will become more attractive.

The stadium’s location is 5 mins on a train and as the city expands, its location will become less attractive.

A stadium in the middle of the city would become less attractive as time goes.

A stadium in the middle of the city would becomes ideal as time goes - see MCG

We need to make better use of the Arena and other facilities already there to liven up the city.

And we missed the chance to bring 50k visitors each week to the Perth CBD.

 

[jatz14]

Have you ever taken the time to stroll North of the Arena - it's the OPPOSITE of prime real estate.
Considering the extra $1billion build for Optus you could have picked up the necessary land quite cheaply.



Have you ever ventured into Perth outside of business hours - it' dead.


Huh ? Perth is set up to handle all of the citiy's transport needs.



FFS, aren't you changing the goalposts on your definition of "close" ?
As people have stated, the WACA was a long walk from Perth Central and Burswood is significantly further.



That doesn't compare to what is currently available en masse in Perth now.



Huh ?
A stadium in the city would have resurrected the vitality of Perth.
The stadium doesn't do a single thing for Perth itself
.

Prime real estate becomes prime real estate over time because of how the city develops.

Remember driving around Perth with my grandad in the 80s with him pointing out all the areas that were undeveloped wastelands no one wanted when he was young.

That it's an undeveloped wasteland near Burswood is a reason to build it there, not a reason not to.


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[Eastern Rangers]

The idea of jamming the stadium into the link site, which is essentially 100m too narrow is comical.

When the City link project was undertaken they chose essentially the most cost effective solution which buried just 250m of rail properly and left the rest under dive structures.

The dive structure at the horse shoe bridge can't be avoided due to the depth of the Joondalup line passing underneath.

On the west side they needed both the Fremantle and Joondalup lines to be the same grade to allow trains to switch between lines.

They could have brought the Joondalup and Fremantle lines down to grade before the freeway within a wide trench. Instead they brought the Fremantle up to grade prematurely in front of Metro's.

This was a monumental mistake on the part of McTiernan and has slowed the rate of redevelopment on the link site.

The idea however that the city should have had an impenetrable stadium lumped right into the middle of it is just a dumb idea from a planning perspective. One that totally ignores the benefits and aims of connecting the city on the North/ South Axis across the rail reserve.

Now this could have been done better but the whole point of the Northbridge link would be lost with a Stadium there. The city link sites will be developed and the outcome will be solid, it's just that that both Shafto Lane and and Milligan street should have been extended through to Roe.

ECU alone will bring more people than the stadium through students, staff, events/ performances than the stadium ever would and without compromising the link in the process.






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[RedV3x]

Prime real estate becomes prime real estate over time because of how the city develops.

Yes and North of the Arena wasn't prime land thenand still isn't.

That it's an undeveloped wasteland near Burswood is a reason to build it there, not a reason not to.

One reason not to build there was because it was a rubbish tip on top of marsh.

That fact added $400 million to the build cost (according to Labor)
You could have built at other under-developed sites like Stirling or Cockburn etc.

 

[wadistance]

Burswood is absolutely fit for purpose. Let’s not forget, the two main areas of consideration were the east Perth Powerplant or Burswood. The former was hemmed in and not really big enough. The latter has the option to be continually expanded, has great transport links, can easily disperse crowds post match, is still only a 20min walk from the cbd, but was a blank slate. Basically no tough planning obstacles apart from water and subsiding ground.

New stadiums that ‘could’ be used for international events need a certain amount of VIP options, including ease of car access directly to the stadium, and proximity to hotels. This also fits the bill.

Whilst it might be another decade or two away, there’s also the option of more space if a rectangular stadium needs to be built, freeing up the Perth oval area.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Yes and North of the Arena wasn't prime land thenand still isn't.

One reason not to build there was because it was a rubbish tip on top of marsh.

That fact added $400 million to the build cost (according to Labor)
You could have built at other under-developed sites like Stirling or Cockburn etc.

And north of Wellington Street was a lake.


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[Billy ray]

Should have been in middle of kings park

 

[jatz14]

Yes and North of the Arena wasn't prime land thenand still isn't.



One reason not to build there was because it was a rubbish tip on top of marsh.

That fact added $400 million to the build cost (according to Labor)
You could have built at other under-developed sites like Stirling or Cockburn etc.

Cockburn?

Let's try to be serious please.

And did it become prime real estate the day the stadium opened, well no, but let's try to think in time frames longer than it takes to burp.

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[RedV3x]

Cockburn?

Cockburn was seriously proposed by Cockburn council the thinking was if you had to catch a train then why not Cockburn.

Let's try to be serious please.

That wasn't my suggestion. My suggestion has always been CBD.

And did it become prime real estate the day the stadium opened,

The land around Optus stadium - no.
The land North of the Arena has sufferred in that they only partially sunk the railway etc and now there is an even worse barrier.

but let's try to think in time frames longer than it takes to burp.

but let you try to think in time frames longer than it takes to burp.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The land around Optus stadium - no.
The land North of the Arena has sufferred in that they only partially sunk the railway etc and now there is an even worse barrier.

The land adjacent to the arena is being developed now and pedestrian connection at Milligan will be developed as the buildings go up.

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[RedV3x]

The land adjacent to the arena is being developed now and pedestrian connection at Milligan will be developed as the buildings go up.

Sometime in the future and a pedestrian bridge is not the same as the open space concept many had hoped that would link
Northbridge to the CBD.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The walk from Flinders St Station to the MCG via Fed Square for a big Friday night game is pretty good. We used to go up early for the games, go to Chinatown for a feed, the Cricketers Arms for a few schooners and then wander to the game. Yes you can get the train to Jolimont, but if you're coming up from Geelong, it's nice walking along the river and mixing with everyone else on the walk, plenty of places for a feed and a drink on the way too. After the game you can walk back the same way and enjoy all the banter and stop at the casino on the way or just keep going.

The walk to the Perth stadium from the CBD probably takes about the same time, maybe it just needs to be made more interesting. For a Friday night game you could stop at Gloucester Park on the way back and catch the last few races. The problem is the rest of Perth is dead.

 

[RedV3x]

The walk to the Perth stadium from the CBD probably takes about the same time,

I don't know why you would say that because the walk from Perth Central to Optus is much much longer.

maybe it just needs to be made more interesting.

Well, it is nice walk if you have the time, the inclination, the strength and the weather to do so.

For a Friday night game you could stop at Gloucester Park on the way back and catch the last few races.

WTF would you do that for ?

The problem is the rest of Perth is dead.

There is actually a hell of a lot to do in Perth now but it is dead and that's why it's so disappointing that they didn't build the stadium in the CBD and grasp a lot of those 50k attendees. ATM they're just passing through.
There are a lot of bars and restaurants in Perth (other than Northbridge) but you wouldn't want the walk to Optus afterwards.

There are things that could be done to improve things. Claisebrook is nearby but there is no parking.
They could have buses via Wellington St to Matargarup Bridge.
They could have ferries to the stadium.
They could have light rail to Matargarup Bridge or to Burswood.
Gloucester Park would be a great site for development and has a lot more advantages than the WACA.

 

[BringBackTheAnchor]

They could have buses via Wellington St to Matargarup Bridge.

Red Cat literally is this.

 

[RedV3x]

Red Cat literally is this.

They could have a large number of football buses via Wellington St to Matargarup Bridge.

 

[kranger]

I don't know why you would say that because the walk from Perth Central to Optus is much much longer.

So the main train station is a bit of an arbitrary place to measure from. But at least it is a constant.

For the 5 biggest cities, here are the distances for 8 of Australia’s 9 largest stadiums (excluding Homebush which is not near the cities main station).

Perth Stadium 2.9km
Adelaide Oval 0.45km
MCG 1.4km
Docklands 1.8km
SCG and SFS 2.1km
Lang Park 0.9km
Gabba 3.6km











Each of the maps face north, except Brisbane, which I rotated to fit into the same arrangement as the others.

Obviously the Gabba is hurt by this metric as Roma Street happens to be on the far side of the CBD whilst Adelaide Station happens to be on the same side of the CBD to Adelaide Oval.

But still, we are pretty lucky these magnificent stadiums are so central and accessible compared to what you see elsewhere.

 

[kranger]

Here is a break down of people who used the train and bus for the Ed Sheeran concert last year, as per the Public Transport Authority annual report: https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/pu...transport+authority+annual+report+2022-23.pdf

70,000 attendants (including concert goers on the grass)

45,000 used public transport (63%)
33,500 used trains (47%)
11,500 used buses (16%)

25,000 other (37%)


This was the modelling from the project definition plan:

60,000 attendants

50,000 using public transport (83%)
35,500 using trains (59%)
14,500 using buses (24%)

10,000 other (17%)

So the reality is the public transport is a bit lower used than modelled. I wonder if this will change when the Thornlie-Cockburn Link opens though, giving southern suburbs a straight ride to the stadium, who can then avoid transferring at Perth Central.

 

[holybishop]

I'm not sure a concert, especially an Ed Sheeran one, is the best example to use to measure overall PT usage. Many of the concert-goers would be first time or very infrequent attendees, and teenages and young girls probably got dropped off by their parents.

 

[Shoei]

I don't know why you would say that because the walk from Perth Central to Optus is much much longer.



Well, it is nice walk if you have the time, the inclination, the strength and the weather to do so.


WTF would you do that for ?



There is actually a hell of a lot to do in Perth now but it is dead and that's why it's so disappointing that they didn't build the stadium in the CBD and grasp a lot of those 50k attendees. ATM they're just passing through.
There are a lot of bars and restaurants in Perth (other than Northbridge) but you wouldn't want the walk to Optus afterwards.

There are things that could be done to improve things. Claisebrook is nearby but there is no parking.
They could have buses via Wellington St to Matargarup Bridge.
They could have ferries to the stadium.
They could have light rail to Matargarup Bridge or to Burswood.
Gloucester Park would be a great site for development and has a lot more advantages than the WACA.

Where could it have possibly been built in the CBD without massive issues?

Even the Subi redevelopment deal would have been horrific for traffic/public around that part of the city.

Optus is current what? a 10 minute free train ride back into the CBD after an event. If people want to go back into the city centre is not that difficult to do.

The sad fact is most of the CBD is still massively unappealing to everyone.

 

[Milang_Panthers]

Where could it have possibly been built in the CBD without massive issues?

Even the Subi redevelopment deal would have been horrific for traffic/public around that part of the city.

Optus is current what? a 10 minute free train ride back into the CBD after an event. If people want to go back into the city centre is not that difficult to do.

The sad fact is most of the CBD is still massively unappealing to everyone.

Yeah CBD has zero appeal for most people these days.

 

[RedV3x]

Where could it have possibly been built in the CBD without massive issues?

There were quite a number of sites but there are still sites if you think a little outside of the square.

Even the Subi redevelopment deal would have been horrific for traffic/public around that part of the city.

Subiaco wasn't an option IMO but even so the traffic would have been no worse because public transport was emphasized.

Optus is current what? a 10 minute free train ride back into the CBD after an event. If people want to go back into the city centre is not that difficult to do.

That might sound good in theory but never happens.
The attraction of Subiaco was that you could walk to restaurants and hotels.

The sad fact is most of the CBD is still massively unappealing to everyone.

Exactly the reason why the CBD needs 50k people every week.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So the reality is the public transport is a bit lower used than modelled.

Or, you could say the 2007 taskforce got it almost bang on. 61% vs 63%. Though they seem to have underpredicted rail demand and over predicted bus demand.

 

[RedV3x]

Yeah CBD has zero appeal for most people these days.

Yes, because there is no stadium bringing in 50k each week.
(Actually the CBD does have a good number of attractions these days)

 

[kranger]

Or, you could say the 2007 taskforce got it almost bang on. 61% vs 63%. Though they seem to have underpredicted rail demand and over predicted bus demand.

Yeah, fair point.

 

[budge27]

Not really sure how this proposed hill thing will work at Optus for the cricket - is it gunna be at the end baked in the sun all day? if so they will have replicated the WACA perfectly

'West Test' at Optus Stadium to IGNITE summer of cricket

WA Cricket hopes a new slogan and a temporary hill-like structure at Optus Stadium will help attract fans back to Test cricket in Perth this summer.

www.perthnow.com.au