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  1. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I'm sure their decision to review everything was in part (or perhaps even mostly) because of lobbying. But don't confuse the decision to review with the outcome of that review. Very important distinction. Good question. I'm not entirely sure. A guess would be that they followed the lead of...
  2. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I imagine it would be too disruptive and carry unnecessary additional risks to stop the treatment of the kids who are already on them. It's a reasonable decision.
  3. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    So, absolutely no valid concerns about the science of the treatments, it's all just propaganda?
  4. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Agreed. Never made a value judgement or argument about this. I just explained what I think are the origins of some of the change in numbers. Agreed. Sure. There's plenty of that happening right now, just as there always has been with experimenting with sexuality. Not a new thing, but probably...
  5. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    The short answer is that I don't know. There's a whole lot of unknowns at this point, which kind of is the point. But specifically regarding the regulation question - yes, regulation of this treatment is the goal. My arguments can absolutely be separate from the wider culture war. Whether the...
  6. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    It's the same argument which my response still applies to. How can you say with any certainty that what we're seeing now represents a normal percentage? Maybe it's lower. Maybe it's actually even higher and we still haven't reached what should be normal. But what is almost a bet-your-house...
  7. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Increasing numbers of gender nonconforming kids. That's what we were talking about yeh? I wasn't suggesting that they all end up on hormones. You were talking about increasing recognition with the example of left handedness.
  8. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Was quite a funny thing. Lasted a solid 6 months back a year or two, I reckon.
  9. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Causing harm when you think you're doing the right thing has always been... a thing. If you get what I mean. Stalin thought he was doing the right thing. So did Hitler (yeah I'm doing the Hitler thing). So did my year 8 teacher when he told me if I didn't take school seriously, I'd be a dropkick...
  10. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    In medical terms, it might as well be
  11. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I think the rise is partly what you described above, but also partly social contagion. Remember the trend where suddenly there were a shitload of kids with Tourette's Syndrome? It was because the syndrome became viral on social media for a while. Now it's gone and so are the numbers. Similarly...
  12. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I disagree. I think that there are arguments made that this issue is both a matter of absolute life and death that will see huge numbers of trans kids die while at the same time happily using the seemingly small stat about how many are actually on the treatment as an argument about how the...
  13. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I think their motivations are mostly altruistic. I've no doubt they believe they are doing the right thing - it's why this topic becomes so passionate. When the group of people we are talking about have been long regarded as weirdos or freaks and been discriminated against (among other worse...
  14. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Semi-related, but I saw a really good social media quote the other day: Liberals are people who would like to see things improved and conservatives are people who would like to see things not worsened, and anyone who does not have a little bit of both in their head does not have their head on...
  15. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Comparisons and whataboutism are not the same. Still, the irony that this was posted shortly after the exact same thing for the "other team" is a bit funny.
  16. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    That (perhaps poor) analogy was well after the projection comment.
  17. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    That's bad too. Not sure what your point is. Or where the projection was supposed to be either.
  18. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    There are some studies about the potential harms of them (among many other mundane sub-topics of course). However, the issue is not so much that there's evidence they are harmful, but there is a distinct LACK of evidence that they are effective and safe as a treatment of gender dysphoria. When...
  19. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    You've got a bit of a bet each way happening here. Has the treatment been around for decades which makes it reliable, or is there just a small handful of kids receiving treatment right now and concerns are overblown? As I said though, the treatment has not been around for decades. I don't know...
  20. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I doubt you can run a clinical trial when the kids are already receiving treatment. Needs to be a blank canvas to start usually. I agree that as it stands right now, there's not some generation-breaking moral issues happening. But it's also painfully clear to me that the treatments of gender...
  21. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    It was supposed to be a harm analogy. Maybe it's a bit s**t, but the point I'm making is a hell of a lot more important.
  22. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    The kids on blockers are not having their treatment stopped, which is obviously a good thing. I don't know what you mean regarding the guinea pigs comment. I don't think advocates are wanting kids experimented on, I just think they are woefully ignorant about the state of the actual science.
  23. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    I'm sorry, do you know of another group I could describe that would fit the analogy of beating children? Feel free to insert that instead of pulling something silly from my post and trying to avoid the point with an attack on me.
  24. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    This is a nasty trope. Similar to the use of hormone blockers, the reality of mental health and suicidal ideation among teens with gender dysphoria is very unclear, and wielding the threat of suicides as a reason to throw sense, safety and rigorous treatment out the window is - literally - crazy.
  25. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Projection... Of what? If 83 kids were poisoned by a Tory program to put 'smart pills' in their school lunches, or 83 kids were assaulted by a strange cult that thought beatings improved morale, I guarantee the same people who think this is a nothing-burger would be up in arms.
  26. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    So * them 83 kids then? Better they be potential martyrs for the ideological cause than to be sure their treatment is safe?
  27. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    Feel like the political window of what is considered conservative and progressive is being stretched beyond recognition if those governments are considered conservative. What about the other question? Anything? I'd hate to think your position on this is purely informed by political tribalism...
  28. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    The Scandinavians are headed by conservative governments? What kind of evidence is required for you to seriously consider the concern that medicalised treatments for adolescents with potential gender dysphoria have outpaced the studies of it? Is there something that would give you pause to...
  29. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    What do you base this claim on? The rest of your post hinges on this being the truth.
  30. ShanDog

    Transgender - Part 2

    How does this idea reconcile with similar findings and recommendations that have come out of other countries?
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