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How do you know all the people who voted no to SSM hold bigoted views? Have you spoken to all of them? Do you have some kind of infallible 'bigotry' test? For a progressive, you have funny idea about what a 'fact' is.

Yes I agree - the distinction is hugely important when it comes to influencing people. People can come back quickly from making a bad racist joke. It's much harder to come back from being called "a racist".

I think we might be thinking about 'calling something out' in different terms. The post that caught my attention was the one where you said there were only two reasons for someone to vote no to SSM (bigotry and blind faith in religion, IIRC). I am not sure whether you were being facetious...

What?

These are all great questions JB. My response to them is that it doesn't matter what is right or fair; what matters is what works. Here, I've suggested having a conversation where you ask lots of questions and listen intently to those you disagree with. Just by doing that (i.e. without even...

That is fine and all but an actual progressive wants to see progress and progress requires that you bring people with you. Perhaps you are a fake progressive

You understand that people who aren't in a conversation can still be influenced by that conversation.

I want to correct something I said earlier. On the second point you made, I think that approach you describe is productive. E.g. you're at work and a team member makes a racist joke. I think it's good to wait for a quiet moment to have a word with that team member about the inappropriateness...

Do you think calling them bigots publicly helps the SSM vote get over the line?

I'm not talking about their minds.

If you want to change people's minds, then yes.

Yes Johnny Bananas the discrimination faced by the marginalised is worse than being called a bigot but two wrongs won't make a right. In a democracy, to get change to happen, you need to bring people on board with you. Labelling people who aren't on board with you "bigots" or "problematic" will...

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the BLM protests in Melbourne and Sydney when COVID was still in its 'ambiguity' phase? And the BLM protests in the US? (My apologies in advance if you've posted about these issues elsewhere - happy for you to reply with just a link to an older post.)

Popped up in my twitter feed today: Paper that was retracted was calling contemporary affirmative action policy into question. It seems it was retracted due to outrage. Title Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity: Evolution of Race and Ethnicity Considerations for the Cardiology Workforce in...

Lebbo73 you've now been showing ITT one chart and one table that show that your assertion that we're one of the highest taxing countries in the OECD is false. Do you intend to update your beliefs about this? If not, may I ask why not, and what evidence you would accept, if those are not enough...

Also interesting to see the top five countries in that list are total shithol- oh wait

Jeez man. Replace two words with two other words and you have a sentence many of us have heard from our embarrassing old conservative uncles. This kind of post doesn't attract anyone from the centre to the left of politics.

Agree regarding National Cabinet. Seems efficient, but a little too closed. I hate to think what it could become like if all the State, Territory, and Federal governments were from the same party.

No worries and thanks for the good-spirited discussion and the link!

I am not convinced that the answers to your two questions here would matter that much to the question posed in the poll at the top of the thread. Perhaps you see it differently - if so, how do you see it? Also, is "catastrophic" really the appropriate word? No questioning it is bad, but...

What you described as "a lack of leadership and competence" could be rephrased to / cognitively reappraised as "quite unlucky after making some quick decisions with imperfect information during a rapidly unfolding and unprecedented global disaster where line ball decisions matter a lot". The...

If the election was in the next few months then maybe. Or if Vic is still in lockdown for the next few months then maybe. But the current lockdown won't make much difference to his chances of retaining the leadership role, should he still want it. Most reasonable people realise that the...

A lot of wishful thinking in this thread from the usual Labor = Bad suspects. He'll be fine. I still remember when Gladys "would never recover from the Ruby Princess debacle" (or something to that effect)

ah, never mind. Text isn't the best for dry humor sometimes...

That's the joke.

More cancel culture from teh left!!

The difference in the Y-axis between those two charts is staggering. Surely it's far too soon to be making any serious call about the relative efficacy of these two strategies. If we are going to have that debate, could we at least agree on what we mean by efficacy first? If we don't people...

I suspect that birth rates might improve if: - the income tax framework didn't massively favour double-income, no kid households over single income (mainly dad) + kids - the superannuation framework did a better job of protecting mums' retirement prospects - more generous parental leave were...

Not sure what you're carrying on about. If you read my post carefully, you'll notice that the only thing I cited from that NYT article was evidence of Trump sending a federal force to Chicago, which was corroborated by the Tribune article. Yes, it certainly seems like a worry. Is it normal for...