“Be consistent you green maggot” - The Umpire Strikes Back

Mr Miyagi

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I saw this posted on a Collingwood fan site, so I'll rehash it here. Behavioural Awareness Officers -- that's what the people are called who are monitoring and policing behaviour at footy matches. BAO. And bao are soft, white, steamed dumplings in Chinese cuisine. So from now on, let's call them Pork Dumplings!

Jesus H Christ, when did going to the footy feel like I was in communist China? Is this why the AFL is pushing games in Shanghai?
 

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OhDustinMartin

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You know how you get decent umpires? By reducing the amount of abuse and threats umpires from the AFL to junior levels cop on a weekly basis. This may shock you, but when kids see drunk idiots screaming abuse at umpires it really puts them off giving the job a try...
I'm 18 and I'm a field umpire for Ressies, u19s, u17s and u15s. Been doing it for four years and the pay is better than I would get at any other job. I'm quitting after this season. Having weekends where, no matter if the decision is by the rules or not, you are screamed at by utter strangers in what is essentially your workplace gets to you. For all of you who say "marshmallow" or whatnot, I'd imagine you'd be a little shaken if a complete stranger not 10 metres away called you a fking cnt to your face while you're working. You'd be more shaken if, like I am right now, you've had 3 games full of that this weekend.

The AFL response is over the top (with restrictions on people yelling "ball" too loudly, that's barracking and fine) but if you're abusing players or umpires in a personal fashion, you can go, or be spoken sternly to. In any other industry it would be unacceptable to yell insults at people. It sets a shocking example for any child there, is a massive risk to a player or umpire's mental wellbeing and is pretty morally off. My organisation has lost 50+ umpires in the last two seasons, 95% because, regardless of being old or young or experienced or inexperienced, they're sick of being abused at work. I make more on a weekend than anyone at school (I'm in Year 12) but would happily stack shelves for a day if I don't go home feeling s**t at the end of the day.

It's a real problem, but the response needs to be fans working with the AFL and not a monopoly. People say that without fans, the game is nothing, but without decent umpires (or umpires at all) there is no game.
 

Mick F

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I'm 18 and I'm a field umpire for Ressies, u19s, u17s and u15s. Been doing it for four years and the pay is better than I would get at any other job. I'm quitting after this season. Having weekends where, no matter if the decision is by the rules or not, you are screamed at by utter strangers in what is essentially your workplace gets to you. For all of you who say "marshmallow" or whatnot, I'd imagine you'd be a little shaken if a complete stranger not 10 metres away called you a fking cnt to your face while you're working. You'd be more shaken if, like I am right now, you've had 3 games full of that this weekend.

The AFL response is over the top (with restrictions on people yelling "ball" too loudly, that's barracking and fine) but if you're abusing players or umpires in a personal fashion, you can go, or be spoken sternly to. In any other industry it would be unacceptable to yell insults at people. It sets a shocking example for any child there, is a massive risk to a player or umpire's mental wellbeing and is pretty morally off. My organisation has lost 50+ umpires in the last two seasons, 95% because, regardless of being old or young or experienced or inexperienced, they're sick of being abused at work. I make more on a weekend than anyone at school (I'm in Year 12) but would happily stack shelves for a day if I don't go home feeling **** at the end of the day.

It's a real problem, but the response needs to be fans working with the AFL and not a monopoly. People say that without fans, the game is nothing, but without decent umpires (or umpires at all) there is no game.
Some very good points. Behaving like a decent human being and respecting others is not PC it is just getting on with each other. Neighbours, workmates and patrons attending a function should be able to go about their lives without suffering from people who mistake obnoxiousness with assertiveness.
 

Mick F

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You're straw-maning him.

He's not saying that at all.
He's saying it's a negligible effect compared to much deeper problems within the umpiring faculty itself.

And quite frankly, I agree with him.

I've been watching a lot of the NBA playoffs and the level of professionalism their umpires operate with is night and day compared to how ours continue to progressively get worse year-by-year.

A consistent ruleset and full-time pay would undoubtedly increase the draw to the profession, therefore the competition and therefore the standards.
Not only that but it would take a lot of pressure off the umpires, because they can just say "we officiated as per the rules".

This interpretation nonsense is the worst.

Curtailing the abuse?
Sure, I'll grant you it might draw some more prospective talent to the faculty, but not in the amount you're talking about.

Edit: Also is your username really Kappa?
Well that explains everything.
Intelligent, experienced people make the best umpires. Intelligent people have professional careers as educators, in the police force etc. Making umpires full time will only reduce the standard of individual.
 

Mick F

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Victorians, please reign in your lefty bullschit. Orwell says thanks
We have to put up with morons who don’t know how to drive or return a shopping trolley, and vote for Pauline Hansen. Surely we can enjoy a sporting contest without their continual torrent of abuse at officials and participants.
 

iameviljez

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Intelligent, experienced people make the best umpires. Intelligent people have professional careers as educators, in the police force etc. Making umpires full time will only reduce the standard of individual.
That is a factor I hadn't thought of - that full-time umpiring will set people back in their chosen career.

Umpiring isn't a lifelong dedication in the same way that being a footballer is.
 

West Coast 06

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I can relate.

As a police officer, I was religiously, sexually and racially vilified multiple times a week and it was water off a the proverbial ducks back. Peoples skins aren't as thick as they used to be.
Maybe all umpires should be ex coppers? 😂 My husband was a cop for 25 years and has umpired ametures for the last six years.

He came home last week and said someone had called him an “old c#*t”. I asked him which part he was most offended by? He said “the old part!”. People are definitely more sensitive these days.
 

Brenton Davy

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Maybe all umpires should be ex coppers? 😂 My husband was a cop for 25 years and has umpired ametures for the last six years.

He came home last week and said someone had called him an “old campaigner”. I asked him which part he was most offended by? He said “the old part!”. People are definitely more sensitive these days.
Funny you say that because I umpired (as it was back then) SAFA. The abuse I copped at places like Hectorville and Salisbury North would make ones hair curl. Suffice it to say, I was only ever called a campaigner because I was far too young to be called old LOL
 
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zeggie

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"these days" "good ol days" "more sensitive these days"

What a load of BS.

Nobody likes being called a campaigner. Back in "those days" if someone took offence to being called something like that in public or in a pub, they probably kept their mouth shut or risk getting a punch to the face from the neanderthal in response.

Maybe people "these days" don't like being verbally abused and now have the ability to voice as such without copping further abuse or getting hit?
 
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Brenton Davy

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"these days" "good ol days" "more sensitive these days"

What a load of BS.

Nobody likes being called a c#*t. Back in "those days" if someone took offence they probably kept there mouth shut or risk getting a punch to the face in response.

Maybe people "these days" don't like being verbally abused and now have the ability to voice as such without copping further abuse or getting hit?
Respectfully, I must disagree. I'm 60 now and I was called that and plenty worse over the years, both as an umpire and police officer. People today ARE more sensitive. Matthew Nicholls reacting as he did to being called a bald headed flog is extreme evidence of this.
 

zeggie

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Respectfully, I must disagree. I'm 60 now and I was called that and plenty worse over the years, both as an umpire and police officer. People today ARE more sensitive. Matthew Nicholls reacting as he did to being called a bald headed flog is extreme evidence of this.
Sensitive or vocal.

There's a difference.

Remember you lot are the "quiet" generation...that constantly whinges about how things were in the good ol days (if you were white and caucasian ofc)
 

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Brenton Davy

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Sensitive or vocal.

There's a difference.

Remember you lot are the "quiet" generation...that constantly whinges about how things were in the good ol days (if you were white and caucasian ofc)
The "Quiet Generation"?

You obviously never saw the Vietnam Moratorium demonstrations and the like. Loud (and violent) demonstrations about a subject most of my generation were very passionate about.
 

zeggie

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The "Quiet Generation"?
Way to go fully offtrack and avoid the question.

Do I look like the person who coined the term?

So your experience as a copper (respect) back a long time ago when racism and homophobia had free reign, and blood was a common sight on the footy field, has what in relevance to umpiring in the present day?
 

Brenton Davy

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Way to go fully offtrack and avoid the question.

Do I look like the person who coined the term?

So your experience as a copper (respect) back a long time ago when racism and homophobia had free reign, and blood was a common sight on the footy field, has what in relevance to umpiring in the present day?
I was merely giving a counter argument to your assertion that I was from the "Quiet Generation". We were anything but.
 

zeggie

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I was merely giving a counter argument to your assertion that I was from the "Quiet Generation". We were anything but.
Cool. Care to address the actual argument now?

Are people today simply sensitive or just being more vocal and voicing their displeasure at being verbally abused? I strongly believe the later.
 

Brenton Davy

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Cool. Care to address the actual argument now?

Are people today simply sensitive or just being more vocal and voicing their displeasure at being verbally abused? I strongly believe the later.
Well, you are entitled to that opinion. I just happen to believe the former.
 

zeggie

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Well, you are entitled to that opinion. I just happen to believe the former.
So you believe everyone is being "sensitive" today, but 30 odd years ago anything racist, homophobic or offensive said to a person was thoroughly discussed and resolved between 2 people with no one being offended?

Society doesn't really take crap anymore. Whilst back in the day everyone turned a blind eye, shunned or ignored obvious society flaws, nowdays they are discussed publicly. Thank the internet and media.

Irony is we're discussing this very issue via an internet forum right now. Where was umpire abuse discussed circa 1975-1985?
 
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Brenton Davy

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So you believe everyone is being "sensitive" today, but 30 odd years ago anything racist, homophobic or offensive said to a person was thoroughly discussed and resolved between 2 people with no one being offended?

Society doesn't really take crap anymore. Whilst back in the day everyone turned a blind eye, shunned or ignored obvious society flaws, nowdays they are discussed publicly. Thank the internet and media.

Irony is we're discussing this very issue via an internet forum right now. Where was umpire abuse discussed circa 1975-1985?
Look. I’ve always tried to treat all people as I would like to be treated and have taught my kids the same. Don’t put me and a large slice of my generation into the racist/homophobic basket. Sure there were a lot who did and still do but the majority were decent people. Your over generalisation of my generation doesn’t help your argument
 

Brenton Davy

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Ok. Why do you think people are more (purportedly) sensitive today then?
There are a few reasons in my opinion, but the main one is that people are far more insular than they used to be. There is a lot less interpersonal relationships caused, in the main, by the rise of social media. People are more likely to associate via social media than person to person. Social media makes a lot of people, shall we say, braver. They are more likely to bully, harass and vilify than they would if they had more face to face contact, hence the term keyboard warrior. There are fewer people learning life skills and as a result, have fewer coping mechanisms.

Kids have fewer avenues to learn life and coping skills. Things like cadets, boy's clubs etc. taught coping skills but largely these no longer exist. During Conscription ( a period I hope we never see again) kids had to learn coping skills, often to their detriment in later life. IN addition with more and more dual parent families both having to work to support the family, there is less family time to discuss such problems. The increase in single parent families makes the problem even worse. As a result many of these kids are easily influenced by social media which often only gives the "trendy" side of an argument and they become so entrenched with that view that any other view is offensive to them, whether that view be right/wrong or practical/impractical.
 

zeggie

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There are a few reasons in my opinion
So you believe Facebook, instagram, twitter and the like has a direct correlation with the perceived sensitivity of umpires and the perceived sensitivity of those who want to see a reduction in umpire abuse?

Social media makes a lot of people, shall we say, braver. They are more likely to bully, harass and vilify than they would if they had more face to face contact,
Wait...so you think there is MORE harassment *today* than there was 30-40 odd years ago? Wow. No words.

more dual parent families...more single parent families...
Let me take a wild guess. You are Caucasian. You were baptised. You're heterosexual.

Newsflash.

The repression of minority races, religions, sexual orientation, family status and abuse is over.

We weren't destined or made to all be good little Caucasian boy scouts, hunting on the weekend, church on sundays, do national service, marry the opposite sex, have 2.5 kids, work a blue collar job for 40 years and then die. There is absolutely no correlation with children "coping skills" and the scenarios you've given. Happy to share peer reviewed research if you're so inclined.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and there is also nothing wrong with single parent families. In many studies it is found to be more beneficial for the child for the parents to separate than to live in a toxic environment - as was the norm back in the day. The world doesn't necessarily live the way you live.

gives the "trendy" side of an argument
What's the trendy side of this argument? Is abusing umpires trendy? Or is wanting a reduction in umpire abuse trendy?

All in all it sounds like another Boomer blaming kids. I go to the footy nearly every weekend and I can tell you one thing - it's not usually the ones under 30 spewing filth from their mouths at umpires or those around them.

You're entitled to your opinion. But I'm also entitled to tear your opinion apart.
 

Brenton Davy

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You're entitled to your opinion. But I'm also entitled to tear your opinion apart.
I’m obviously not going to change your mind. All I will say is wait another 30 or 40 years and see if you have the same views. Mine have certainly changed.
 
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