Analysis “Hawthorn are middle of the road at best” discussion

rogiebear93

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Out of all the teams that lost players to season ending injuries in 2019, we lost the best. Having said that, if he plays at his usual output we still probably finish 6-8. Middle of the road.
I disagree with this statement. With a fit and firing Mitchell on the field, I doubt we lose to the Bulldogs, Saints, Swans, Eagles (1st) or Demons.

Bulldogs we got overrun through the midfield with injuries to our already paper thin midfield unit. Saints we again got overrun through injuries. Demons we lost because O'Meara got shut down. Most of the games we lost it was a trickle on effect from a midfield that was clearly missing its best player.

Bear in mind that we were 9th, but only won 4 less games than 4th.
 

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threesixpio

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We had a lot of in game injuries which made a big difference in games losing midfielders against the bulldogs and defenders against the saints made it difficult. But we make no excuses we werent good enough and need to improve
Forgot this. Yes - never fun when your team is trying to develop its new mojo
 

WWSD

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Won 6 of the last 8 games without Mitchell, whilst not getting much production from Gunston, Breust and O’Meara for various reasons. You’d expect those three in particular to be much better next year.

Wingard and Scrimshaw will benefit from playing a full season.

Patton and Frost instantly fix the spine, thereby allowing Gunston and Sicily to play as natural flankers rather then mixing between playing as undersized key position players.

Lewis and Worpel haven’t even scratched the surface yet.

I have a feeling that Burgoyne is likely to spend most of 2020 playing as a half forward/midfielder.
 

HODGEYROAD

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I disagree with this statement. With a fit and firing Mitchell on the field, I doubt we lose to the Bulldogs, Saints, Swans, Eagles (1st) or Demons.

Bulldogs we got overrun through the midfield with injuries to our already paper thin midfield unit. Saints we again got overrun through injuries. Demons we lost because O'Meara got shut down. Most of the games we lost it was a trickle on effect from a midfield that was clearly missing its best player.

Bear in mind that we were 9th, but only won 4 less games than 4th.
4 less games is rather significant in a 22 game season, if it's like the NBA and an 82 game season then I agree it's fu** all.
 

rogiebear93

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4 less games is rather significant in a 22 game season, if it's like the NBA and an 82 game season then I agree it's fu** all.
Depends on context. Last year we were 4th and won 3 less games than 1st. I said only in the context of, having won 4 close games listed above, we would have been in the top 4.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Depends on context. Last year we were 4th and won 3 less games than 1st. I said only in the context of, having won 4 close games listed above, we would have been in the top 4.
Yeah I suppose it's the old glass half empty against glass half full, for eg in 2018 we went 5-1 in games decided by 2 goals or under, if that's 2-4 or something instead of finishing 4th we're clinging onto 8th by percentage.
 

rogiebear93

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Yeah I suppose it's the old glass half empty against glass half full, for eg in 2018 we went 5-1 in games decided by 2 goals or under, if that's 2-4 or something instead of finishing 4th we're clinging onto 8th by percentage.
I've already said I thought we were more "middle of the road" in 2018 than in 2019. Despite ladder position, our record against the top 8 was far worse and we didn't have any comprehensive wins against good sides in the second half of the season. This is why things deserve deeper analysis than just, we won this many games and lost this many games.
 

Pessimistic

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I've already said I thought we were more "middle of the road" in 2018 than in 2019. Despite ladder position, our record against the top 8 was far worse and we didn't have any comprehensive wins against good sides in the second half of the season. This is why things deserve deeper analysis than just, we won this many games and lost this many games.
From memory, wins against teams while they were in the eight were very rare in 2018. about 2 in total I think
 

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MasterSamurai

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Hmm, so, we win one more game or two more games and so on, we make finals,? well that’s cute, but the reality is we didn’t and others did.
I do think we’ll rise up next year but I still think our depth isn’t very strong at all.
Tigers are on another level with Eagles, giants and Doggies having strong lists. We have a long way to go but it’s exciting nevertheless .
 

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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We are hawthorn we do finals with a 60odd percent success rate

We have just 8 players left wit( a premiership and even they are looking hungrier

2008 side started out middle of the road and brought down one of the most fancied teams in history


How do we stack up to 2008? Well this is the players in positions 19-30

Ladson Renouf gilham young taylor murphy boyle dawson kennedy clarke morton stokes

Obrien frost Nash Ceglar scrimshaw puopolo impey jiath morrison hanrahan howe glass
 

HODGEYROAD

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We are hawthorn we do finals with a 60odd percent success rate

We have just 8 players left wit( a premiership and even they are looking hungrier

2008 side started out middle of the road and brought down one of the most fancied teams in history


How do we stack up to 2008? Well this is the players in positions 19-30

Ladson Renouf gilham young taylor murphy boyle dawson kennedy clarke morton stokes

Obrien frost Nash Ceglar scrimshaw puopolo impey jiath morrison hanrahan howe glass
I think our top end in 2008 is stronger than what our top end is now, we had more bonafide match winners in 2008.
 

celebrity sal

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I disagree with this statement. With a fit and firing Mitchell on the field, I doubt we lose to the Bulldogs, Saints, Swans, Eagles (1st) or Demons.

Bulldogs we got overrun through the midfield with injuries to our already paper thin midfield unit. Saints we again got overrun through injuries. Demons we lost because O'Meara got shut down. Most of the games we lost it was a trickle on effect from a midfield that was clearly missing its best player.

Bear in mind that we were 9th, but only won 4 less games than 4th.
Rance was a fair season ending injury....cothcin missed 12, jack 13, Nankervis 11, short 10....plus others with usual injuries...fair run of injuries to good players there.
 

Cyrillic

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Rance was a fair season ending injury....cothcin missed 12, jack 13, Nankervis 11, short 10....plus others with usual injuries...fair run of injuries to good players there.
How was richmond travelling when they copped injuries?
we know what happened when they got back, but by god did
#richmondhasinjuries get a run When they were barely hanging on to a top 8 position

and keep your richmond stink to your own territory
 

Nugett

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I think we are heading back up. Patton, is someone we needed, to help mould the forward line. Hoping that his knees holds up, so he can get a decent run at a career. Scully and Wingard should be better next year after their injury issues. Scrimshaw is an exciting prospect, that with more games under his belt, has the potential to increase his output. The development of Worpel was outstanding. Tom Mitchell coming back, strengthens the midfield considerably.
Nash and O’Brien are improving and have the opportunity to cement their spots permanentl.

With potentially 3 top 25 draft picks and Downie next year, we are starting to shape the future.

While I’d like to think we can grab a free agent next year(either Whitfield or B.Crouch or both) I’m not that optimistic!
No doubt the recruiting team will have its eyes on acquiring another player through trade that we don’t know about yet.

The optimist in me is gunning for a flag next year. The realist in me is thinking 2021-2023. The pessimist makes me want to go to a main board thread about us ignoring the draft by liking every post of *, Geelol and the woodwork Premiershipmond supporters.
 

MasterSamurai

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How was richmond travelling when they copped injuries?
we know what happened when they got back, but by god did
#richmondhasinjuries get a run When they were barely hanging on to a top 8 position

and keep your richmond stink to your own territory
Hang on ! Why are you down playing Richmond’s premiership effort instead of acknowledging the fact that they hung on with their stars out!? It wasn’t as of Cotchin, Riewoldt, nankervis etc.. came back and dominated, far from it in fact, they were just there doing what is expected as bare minimum from them. Rance didn’t even make it back and is regarded as the best defender in the comp. they are a well rounded team and have been brilliant for the past three seasons and need to be acknowledged for that, through injuries and at times average form from their stars, they shit it in with ease all the way to a premiership.
 

threesixpio

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I think we are heading back up. Patton, is someone we needed, to help mould the forward line. Hoping that his knees holds up, so he can get a decent run at a career. Scully and Wingard should be better next year after their injury issues. Scrimshaw is an exciting prospect, that with more games under his belt, has the potential to increase his output. The development of Worpel was outstanding. Tom Mitchell coming back, strengthens the midfield considerably.
Nash and O’Brien are improving and have the opportunity to cement their spots permanentl.

With potentially 3 top 25 draft picks and Downie next year, we are starting to shape the future.

While I’d like to think we can grab a free agent next year(either Whitfield or B.Crouch or both) I’m not that optimistic!
No doubt the recruiting team will have its eyes on acquiring another player through trade that we don’t know about yet.

The optimist in me is gunning for a flag next year. The realist in me is thinking 2021-2023. The pessimist makes me want to go to a main board thread about us ignoring the draft by liking every post of *, Geelol and the woodwork Premiershipmond supporters.
Going all in for this draft probably shows we don’t want to rely on FA “possibilities” - been burnt
 

Gralin

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Hang on ! Why are you down playing Richmond’s premiership effort instead of acknowledging the fact that they hung on with their stars out!? It wasn’t as of Cotchin, Riewoldt, nankervis etc.. came back and dominated, far from it in fact, they were just there doing what is expected as bare minimum from them. Rance didn’t even make it back and is regarded as the best defender in the comp. they are a well rounded team and have been brilliant for the past three seasons and need to be acknowledged for that, through injuries and at times average form from their stars, they shit it in with ease all the way to a premiership.
Probably because of the oppo troll who minted a Hawks account to talk up Richmond.

Plus bigfooty likes to talk down premiers
 

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