Analysis “Hawthorn are middle of the road at best” discussion

Gralin

Super Moderator
Apr 8, 2010
32,220
48,091
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
^ exactly

People get offended by the 'at best' comment, but if you take that out then this is a legitimate discussion topic.
Because plenty want to argue that middle of the road is our best.

Our best last year was good enough to be a finalist our worst was bad enough to be bottom four.

Consistency was a big issue and team cohesion, not unexpected with so many changes to the 22 and so many inexperienced players as far as our system and each other.

It was a development year and we finished mid table which means overall that's our year.

If we can take the last two months of the season and build off that more consistently next year we won't be middle of the road

If we can't we will stay in no man's land

I think we will improve, how much is the question.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cyrillic

Club Legend
Sep 15, 2009
2,605
4,452
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Liverpool
Hang on ! Why are you down playing Richmond’s premiership effort instead of acknowledging the fact that they hung on with their stars out!? It wasn’t as of Cotchin, Riewoldt, nankervis etc.. came back and dominated, far from it in fact, they were just there doing what is expected as bare minimum from them. Rance didn’t even make it back and is regarded as the best defender in the comp. they are a well rounded team and have been brilliant for the past three seasons and need to be acknowledged for that, through injuries and at times average form from their stars, they shit it in with ease all the way to a premiership.
If you want to fawn over Richmond that's your perogative. Yes they are the premiers but the amount of carry on on here about them is laughable. The Richmond stink elsewhere is enough without having it permeate through here also. My point was that as soon as the injuries arrived, we saw how they performed. Which tells you that more than ever, any side needs to have their best players on the park.

It wil be the last time I discuss anything Richmond related on this forum. Sorry if that offends you on this Hawthorn forum.
 

Sixpence

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 5, 2009
5,836
7,928
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
^ exactly

People get offended by the 'at best' comment, but if you take that out then this is a legitimate discussion topic.
If you take out "at best" it's an entirely different discussion. One that is too open ended to really answer. The point of this thread is to discuss specifically where we are at "at best".
 

tige19

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 13, 2003
19,991
21,780
Mar-a-lago
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NUFC, Orlando, Packers, Trump
Results suggest we are a middle of the road team, arguing that we beat top 4 sides is a bit ridiculous considering both North and St.Kilda beat us.

I think all things equal we’ll be playing finals in 2020, what our ceiling is is anyone’s guess. Signs seem ok
 

HODGEYROAD

Brownlow Medallist
May 10, 2007
15,433
15,475
Bayswater
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal Fc Portland Trailblazers
Results suggest we are a middle of the road team, arguing that we beat top 4 sides is a bit ridiculous considering both North and St.Kilda beat us.

I think all things equal we’ll be playing finals in 2020, what our ceiling is is anyone’s guess. Signs seem ok
I reckon somewhere around SF/ Prelims in 2020 is our ceiling, anymore would be a surprise and a fantastic one at that.
 

matey

Club Legend
Oct 5, 2004
2,753
1,374
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
In recent times Tigers finished 13th in 2016, WC 8th in 2017 and both saluted the following year.

It can change quickly in a comp where there isn’t a big difference between 12th and the best. This year we were middle of the road no doubt losing some games to teams that finished outside the 8. But it wouldn’t surprise me if we pushed top 4 next year. From here anything is possible. Before a finals match or the big dance imagine having JD, Dermie, Hodge, Mitch, Kennedy snr, Lethal etc walking around in the change rooms before a game. We are Hawthorn!

I like what we are doing since 2016, assembling a team with some real genuine quality.
 

MasterSamurai

Premiership Player
Mar 21, 2017
3,199
5,799
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
BayernMunchen
If you want to fawn over Richmond that's your perogative. Yes they are the premiers but the amount of carry on on here about them is laughable. The Richmond stink elsewhere is enough without having it permeate through here also. My point was that as soon as the injuries arrived, we saw how they performed. Which tells you that more than ever, any side needs to have their best players on the park.

It wil be the last time I discuss anything Richmond related on this forum. Sorry if that offends you on this Hawthorn forum.
Context mate, context. If it’s a topic of discussion then there’s no harm in talking about other clubs.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
5,311
10,964
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hang on ! Why are you down playing Richmond’s premiership effort instead of acknowledging the fact that they hung on with their stars out!? It wasn’t as of Cotchin, Riewoldt, nankervis etc.. came back and dominated, far from it in fact, they were just there doing what is expected as bare minimum from them. Rance didn’t even make it back and is regarded as the best defender in the comp. they are a well rounded team and have been brilliant for the past three seasons and need to be acknowledged for that, through injuries and at times average form from their stars, they shit it in with ease all the way to a premiership.
Context mate, context. If it’s a topic of discussion then there’s no harm in talking about other clubs.
Richmond have a good list, but to consider their depth to be lauded and their bit part players to be inherently better than others is ridiculous considering where they were at a couple of years ago. Their team and their depth looks so impressive because they're playing well and winning premierships. You'd be laughed at in 2016 and the early parts of 2017 if you suggested that blokes like Castagna, Soldo, Astbury, Broad and Ellis would be reasonable contributors to a premiership teams.

Confidence helps. They're playing a game style that wins, they're playing their parts in that.

Plus they didn't 'shit it in' this year - they barely hung on at all. Their losses this year:

Magpies - 44
Giants - 49
Bulldogs - 47
Kangaroos - 37
Cats - 67
Crows - 33

They were a 4th quarter choke effort from Geelong away from not making the Grand Final. They were lucky Hawthorn had a late season renaissance and kicked West Coast out of the top 4. They were exceedingly lucky to have 9 out of their last 10 games on the deck they play their best football.

Richmond are obviously the best team in the competition, but they were given a golden ticket by the rest of the competition from no other team rising above the rest and when they got the majority of their better players back at the end of the year.
 

matey

Club Legend
Oct 5, 2004
2,753
1,374
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The gap between the best team to 12th has never been closer. That means that the Hawks are not that far off the pace and we have plenty of room for improvement especially from playing as a team and the players getting use to each other. It can change quickly and nothing would surprise.
 

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
70,421
29,868
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
Richmond have a good list, but to consider their depth to be lauded and their bit part players to be inherently better than others is ridiculous considering where they were at a couple of years ago. Their team and their depth looks so impressive because they're playing well and winning premierships. You'd be laughed at in 2016 and the early parts of 2017 if you suggested that blokes like Castagna, Soldo, Astbury, Broad and Ellis would be reasonable contributors to a premiership teams.

Confidence helps. They're playing a game style that wins, they're playing their parts in that.

Plus they didn't 'shit it in' this year - they barely hung on at all. Their losses this year:

Magpies - 44
Giants - 49
Bulldogs - 47
Kangaroos - 37
Cats - 67
Crows - 33

They were a 4th quarter choke effort from Geelong away from not making the Grand Final. They were lucky Hawthorn had a late season renaissance and kicked West Coast out of the top 4. They were exceedingly lucky to have 9 out of their last 10 games on the deck they play their best football.

Richmond are obviously the best team in the competition, but they were given a golden ticket by the rest of the competition from no other team rising above the rest and when they got the majority of their better players back at the end of the year.
Thats interesting, Hawks worst loss to the tigers is smaller than four of richmonds losses - and they are to completely different set of teams
 

MasterSamurai

Premiership Player
Mar 21, 2017
3,199
5,799
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
BayernMunchen
Richmond have a good list, but to consider their depth to be lauded and their bit part players to be inherently better than others is ridiculous considering where they were at a couple of years ago. Their team and their depth looks so impressive because they're playing well and winning premierships. You'd be laughed at in 2016 and the early parts of 2017 if you suggested that blokes like Castagna, Soldo, Astbury, Broad and Ellis would be reasonable contributors to a premiership teams.

Confidence helps. They're playing a game style that wins, they're playing their parts in that.

Plus they didn't 'shit it in' this year - they barely hung on at all. Their losses this year:

Magpies - 44
Giants - 49
Bulldogs - 47
Kangaroos - 37
Cats - 67
Crows - 33

They were a 4th quarter choke effort from Geelong away from not making the Grand Final. They were lucky Hawthorn had a late season renaissance and kicked West Coast out of the top 4. They were exceedingly lucky to have 9 out of their last 10 games on the deck they play their best football.

Richmond are obviously the best team in the competition, but they were given a golden ticket by the rest of the competition from no other team rising above the rest and when they got the majority of their better players back at the end of the year.
You could make the same argument for and against every premiership winner including hawthorn. Premiership is a premiership and tigers have won two of the last three!!
 

OnTheRocks

Premiership Player
Mar 11, 2016
3,174
4,065
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You could make the same argument for and against every premiership winner including hawthorn. Premiership is a premiership and tigers have won two of the last three!!
And should potentially push for another next season. Very well balanced team from top to bottom. Some of their supporters might be unbearable but their club is back big time now.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
5,311
10,964
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You could make the same argument for and against every premiership winner including hawthorn. Premiership is a premiership and tigers have won two of the last three!!
No you couldn't. We suffered similar injury issues to them in 2014, including losing our coach, and still won those games. We definitely didn't lose a handful by 40 points.
 

MasterSamurai

Premiership Player
Mar 21, 2017
3,199
5,799
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
BayernMunchen
No you couldn't. We suffered similar injury issues to them in 2014, including losing our coach, and still won those games. We definitely didn't lose a handful by 40 points.
We were better though. By the time 2014 rolled on we were a rolling machine of a team with stars all over the park but when Mitchell Rioli Gibson Lake etc.. were out in those 9 weeks we won 6 of 9 games and I truly believe we would have won almost all of them if they were available. I’m not comparing the two sides, I’m just merely saying what the tigers have right now is a system that needs to be appreciated, that’s all.
 

Top Bottom