Strategy “I’m going home” - Cripps warns Gold Coast not to draft the South Australians

[Johnny Bananas]

Do you really need the basics explained to you?

There's no need to be condescending.

If you're not good enough to play NBA but wish to be a professional basketball player you go and play at the next highest level, wherever that might be. Europe, Asia, Australia. Otherwise you go out and get a regular job.

And yet you have Aussies playing in Europe instead of the NBL, Europeans playing in China instead of Europe, Europeans playing in other European countries instead of their own.

It's a way to be seen - get your foot in the door by joining a smaller european league.

And yet there are Aussies playing in Japan, Korea and China. And plenty from all countries in English leagues two or three divisions below the Premier League, who are never going to play for a Premier League club but choose to go anyway. I highly doubt any major league is scouting the English division 3 for talent. How does that equate to trying to impress the big boys?

 

[Taylor]

The top European basketballers are paid more than the top AFL players but the median salary isn't far off. You might have a point with attracting attention in lower leagues.

Still, closer to home if we look at the NRL I don't see the Storm or the Cowboys having big retention issues with players who aren't local. In fact the Storm have lost the major Victorian players they've had, while having amazing retention with Queenslanders. Go figure.

The players of basketball and soccer have higher possible places to go, they know where they sit if they are playing the lower levels.

AFL players are in the only place they will get paid a living wage. There are 18 clubs and about $234,000,000 spread around it. You'll get your $600,000 a year playing interstate or playing at home.

We are a journeyman league without a world class level competition. I watched an NFL game last week or the one before that had more than our entire league salary cap in just the two sides playing that match, it might have even been twice the number. They will draw talent from all over the world to them.

The AFL is not at that level. There isn't a that much difference between making nearly the top money at Gold Coast and top 15% back in Melbourne.

 

[Groin guru]

It's bullshit. I remember when a promising young player that freo developed for a few years said "i'm going home to gold coast" and it forced Freo's hand. Same with Geelong and Tim Kelly - "I'm homesick...homesick but West Coast only please".

Peter Bell was another. "I'm going home. I'm sick of that club that turned me into an AFL star."
Byron Pickett, Daniel Motlop, and Lindsay Thomas: "I'm sick of Melbourne take me back to Port Adelaide"

Players and player managers have too much control. 3 year contracts straight from the draft and don't allow them to nominate the club if they want to leave - it takes away the ability to negotiate. The big issue is players using home sickness as a flag as it then turns into a mental health concern - as soon as that is voiced it's all over red rover and basically a free pass in today's society (some exploit it).

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It's not true that the Swans never had retention issues. In the early to mid-1990s, when the Swans were as uncompetitive on field as the Suns currently are (and the Lions have been), we suffered a raft of top picks leaving after two or three years to go the mecca of football (Melbourne). Darren Gaspar, Shannon Grant, Anthony Rocca, Brett O'Farrell, Mark Kinnear. (I know Kinnear proved to be a headcase who didn't have what it took to knuckle down to senior footy but he was originally a top five draft pick.) We'd have lost Michael O'Loughlin, too, if his mum hadn't told him to just knuckle down and make it work.

What changed was getting a modicum of success onfield - 1996 GF, regular if uncompetitive finals appearances more years than not after that - and the club realising it had to work extra hard on the welfare side of things. We were also getting zone selections from the Riverina area for most of the 90s that were more productive in producing decent level footballers than the academies have yet been - though these will get better in time.

It's hard to tell yet whether the Giants will have any long term retention issues because of the phase your list is in, and the competitiveness of your list. Even if you lose Shiel, Scully, Lobb and Finlayson this year, your best 22 for next year will still be better than pretty much every other side in the competition.

What needs to happen is for the academies to start producing good AFL players in much greater quantities than they currently are, to rebalance (even slightly) the distribution across regions of where players come from. At the moment the talent coming out of the academies is just a trickle, and it will take a decade or two before the numbers become meaningful. And for that to happen, AFL in NSW and Queensland needs to maintain and grow its profile so that talented young athletes want to stick with AFL rather than one of the rival sporting codes.

I accept the correction about the Swans player retention. It does kind if support my view that it's more about success than location though.

We'll have a good list but I'm far from certain it's the best. I'm optimistic but not because if the list, that gives opportunity. Rather the team is developing a hard edge, I actually believe this year was our best finals series.

In 2016 we had start up concessions, specifically list size and cap still in place, and insane depth. Those days are now gone, sadly for Giants supporters.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Absoltely. In the NBA what Cripps said would be a huge fine. It's a stupid comment and should be punished.

Magic Johnson got fined $50,000 for complimenting Giannis Antetokounmpo.

http://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/...c-johnson-violates-league-anti-tampering-rule

Very good point and I agree. However, $50k is pocket money for Magic

Clubs must be given more power to control their own destinies. I cringe every time I hear a player nominating the club he wants to go to. What's the point in having a draft tying players to clubs and then allowing the players to head wherever they like after 3 years? The game's a nonsense these days. F/A may be a good idea in principle, but in reality it's a disaster.

 

[Andrew Birch]

There's no need to be condescending.



And yet you have Aussies playing in Europe instead of the NBL, Europeans playing in China instead of Europe, Europeans playing in other European countries instead of their own.



And yet there are Aussies playing in Japan, Korea and China. And plenty from all countries in English leagues two or three divisions below the Premier League, who are never going to play for a Premier League club but choose to go anyway. I highly doubt any major league is scouting the English division 3 for talent. How does that equate to trying to impress the big boys?

The basketball seasons don't all overlap. You can plan NBL then play in Europe etc during the same year. There are plenty of players who play in 2 or 3 comps around the world all year round to make a decent income playing basketball instead of having to get a regular job in the off season.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Probably need to have something out of the cap that can be paid to players drafted from other states.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We are a journeyman league without a world class level competition. I watched an NFL game last week or the one before that had more than our entire league salary cap in just the two sides playing that match, it might have even been twice the number. They will draw talent from all over the world to them.

Then how come the NFL didn't have a significant go home factor in the era before huge money? Their salaries weren't always so ridiculous, they only took off in the past 30 years, but people still moved across the country to play for decades before that.

 

[Taylor]

Then how come the NFL didn't have a significant go home factor in the era before huge money? Their salaries weren't always so ridiculous, they only took off in the past 30 years, but people still moved across the country to play for decades before that.

You need only look at their development culture. It's so normal to move to go to college.

There is a genetic anomaly in Perth that interests studies because most people who come here stay and their children stay, etc etc

We have a very stationary population.

I think most of the students at our universities are studying outside their home, but they are from overseas.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The basketball seasons don't all overlap. You can plan NBL then play in Europe etc during the same year. There are plenty of players who play in 2 or 3 comps around the world all year round to make a decent income playing basketball instead of having to get a regular job in the off season.

Okay, how about the rest?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Take Sam Taylor. In a year or two the two w.a teams will hands down be trying to lure him home. We will have to pay him overs to keep him.
We’ve had to do it with lots of our players... Lobb was on 700000... no way was he worth that.

Every player is different. Guessing what will happen in the future isn't evidence.
I think Lobb was cheap at $700k bearing in mind it was about his 2016 season, and he's been injury hampered with groin soreness and a minor fracture in his back since mid 2017. You dont punish a player for getting injured, it's the nature of the job.

 

[raffrox]

I don't understand what Johnson was fined for?

They are so sensitive about players being poached that anything that publicly looks like another team buttering up another player hoping that they would leave their team.

The problem is that Magic is the General Manager for the Lakers so he's not just some guy making a comment. He has influence and power.

The Vic media would have a complete meltdown if it was actually named that all the people with jobs of influence who also have media jobs shouldn't be allowed to do what they do.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You need only look at their development culture. It's so normal to move to go to college.

There is a genetic anomaly in Perth that interests studies because most people who come here stay and their children stay, etc etc

We have a very stationary population.

I think most of the students at our universities are studying outside their home, but they are from overseas.

Thank you, finally a good answer to my original question. The mummy's boys clearly aren't confined to the AFL, it's a part of national culture. Although I do wonder why the NRL doesn't seem to have it as bad. Probably because the Storm and Cowboys are consistently good.

 

[Bestbird]

The Weller deal last year should have been a real worry for the AFL as it clearly show it is not an even playing field in regards to the non established teams at this stage with trading and drafting. With 50 percent of all players drafted interstate returning at some point it is clear disadvantage

 

[Taylor]

Thank you, finally a good answer to my original question. The mummy's boys clearly aren't confined to the AFL, it's a part of national culture. Although I do wonder why the NRL doesn't seem to have it as bad. Probably because the Storm and Cowboys are consistently good.

I think rugby guys have greener pastures overseas, a teenager playing and dreaming of being a star isn't playing in his home city. An AFL teenager can reasonably expect to be a star of the top level of the sport while never leaving home.

If AFL was what they played in the EPL then young Australians would dream about playing in England since they were young. That would be what they are working towards.

 

[Taylor]

The Weller deal last year should have been a real worry for the AFL as it clearly show it is not an even playing field in regards to the non established teams at this stage with trading and drafting. With 50 percent of all players drafted interstate returning at some point it is clear disadvantage

Weller, the Tasmanian with his family in Melbourne after two years (?) on the Gold Coast decides to "go home" to the Gold Coast?

It's a great win for Gold Coast to attract someone to the club, the go home was the rubbish the PR people have to put out so AFL fans don't have their feelings hurt.

 

[Andrew Birch]

Okay, how about the rest?

And yet there are Aussies playing in Japan, Korea and China. And plenty from all countries in English leagues two or three divisions below the Premier League, who are never going to play for a Premier League club but choose to go anyway. I highly doubt any major league is scouting the English division 3 for talent. How does that equate to trying to impress the big boys?

Dude, plenty of players start off in the lower Premier League divisions.

You seem unaware that Teams get promoted/relegated every year. Teams have jumped 2-3 divisions in the same amount of years. Tim Cahill started out with Millwall when they were Div 2

They also have a thing called the FA Cup by the sounds of it, you have not heard of that either. Here's a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup

 

[davemc_lions]

If your not from a AFL state ie NSW/QLD your going to find it hard to keep the players in the bad years
Not only is the player playing for a bottom side he is also away from family.
Add to that a lot of players have a bit of FIGJAM in them so rather be playing at the G rather then northern states in front of 8k fans.

I just think SOS etc being honest.. The Lions seem to not trade players who they think will leave and still get it wrong he he
GWS paying overs to keep players hence no room and a fire sale this year.

Really Swans as they been top 8 for a long time have no problem as they playing finals
Lions did not in the premiership window (Apart from Hedland) .. Yes might of had some extra $.. Although players want to win a cup. Lots took $ cuts to win 3.

Problem with the Suns they had $ to start with hence Gazza.. Now no $ and not much hope they all going
The Lions where there a few years ago.
I think the AFL needs to make sure the northern clubs have good people running them. Lions turned around I see the suns as well AFL putting people there.
GWS its all $ now.. they have too many high end kids

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Dude, plenty of players start off in the lower Premier League divisions.

You seem unaware that Teams get promoted/relegated every year. Teams have jumped 2-3 divisions in the same amount of years. Tim Cahill started out with Millwall when they were Div 2

They also have a thing called the FA Cup by the sounds of it, you have not heard of that either. Here's a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup

Clearly you're just not going to listen to my suggestion that you not be condescending. Alright, continue to act like a jackass.

Teams do get promoted every year. But precious few of them from 3 divisions below the league ever make it to the Premier League, and certainly not with the squad they used when they were 3 divisions below. Tim Cahill is a rarity, very few players on that level make it to the big time. The FA cup is simply a series of knock-out games featuring teams that may be grossly unequal, to call it the big time is inaccurate, particularly when the lower league teams that make it far are rarely the same from year to year.

 

[Andrew Birch]

Clearly you're just not going to listen to my suggestion that you not be condescending. Alright, continue to act like a jackass.

Teams do get promoted every year. But precious few of them from 3 divisions below the league ever make it to the Premier League, and certainly not with the squad they used when they were 3 divisions below. Tim Cahill is a rarity, very few players on that level make it to the big time. The FA cup is simply a series of knock-out games featuring teams that may be grossly unequal, to call it the big time is inaccurate, particularly when the lower league teams that make it far are rarely the same from year to year.

You make no valid points whatsoever. Time Cahill is not a rarity, that was just of the top of my head. A lot of the Aussies that played/are playing in the premier league started in lower division PL teams. Lucas Neill, Mile Jedinak another 2 straight of the top of my head.

 

[Shadow89]

Clearly you're just not going to listen to my suggestion that you not be condescending. Alright, continue to act like a jackass.

Teams do get promoted every year. But precious few of them from 3 divisions below the league ever make it to the Premier League, and certainly not with the squad they used when they were 3 divisions below. Tim Cahill is a rarity, very few players on that level make it to the big time. The FA cup is simply a series of knock-out games featuring teams that may be grossly unequal, to call it the big time is inaccurate, particularly when the lower league teams that make it far are rarely the same from year to year.

You make no valid points whatsoever. Time Cahill is not a rarity, that was just of the top of my head. A lot of the Aussies that played/are playing in the premier league started in lower division PL teams. Lucas Neill, Mile Jedinak another 2 straight of the top of my head.

This is diverging lol. It's an AFL thread not a soccer thread. Keep it on point as it's detracting from the actual thread. No-one cares about soccer on a big footy forum lol. If it's used comparatively to AFL, fine. But not if you're comparing opinions or facts about soccer against soccer.

 

[Footypie32]

I would like to see 2 changes that I think would even out the competition.

1) Players may be traded without their consent, but not before their first contract has ended (ie. 2/3 years).

2) Introducing a version of Bird rights (NBA). Once a player is eligible to become a RFA their club may not only match another offer, but pay them an extra 10-15% outside of the salary cap. (limited to contracts exceeding $500k pa)

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You make no valid points whatsoever. Time Cahill is not a rarity, that was just of the top of my head. A lot of the Aussies that played/are playing in the premier league started in lower division PL teams. Lucas Neill, Mile Jedinak another 2 straight of the top of my head.

How many of them started 3 divisions below

 

[Andrew Birch]

How many of them started 3 divisions below

Oh FFS just stop. You've embarrassed yourself enough for one day.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Oh FFS just stop. You've embarrassed yourself enough for one day.

Thanks for conceding defeat. I'd say it's been a pleasure, but it really hasn't. You will be a most welcome addition to my ignore list. Thanks for playing!