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Im happy we have landed a 22 year old potential star and a 23 year old quality inside mid, Jaeger today was make or break for me.
Opinion 1 era ends, but the new has begun: or the sweet relief of finally getting O'Meara after all that
- Thread starter crazywildhorse
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Im happy we have landed a 22 year old potential star and a 23 year old quality inside mid, Jaeger today was make or break for me.
- Jan 30, 2014
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Someone slips through the ND each year. Anyone could have selected Dan Howe at #102 or whatever in 2013 but we used a pick in the 30s in 2014 to get him. Markov went for #50 last year and had a reasonable first year after no one wanted him in 2014.
We're talking a long shot here obviously but hope our recruiters can find a good player in Rookie draft if not the main draft.
If we hadn't lost Jordan Lewis for zip while still contracted and holding enough value that another club is willing to pay $600K a year for 3 years for him, I would have given us a big tick for this trade based purely on end results. It was almost funny to read of Adelaide acting entitled and frustrated that Carlton wouldn't give them Gibbs based on "other" trades that had taken place this period.
We're talking a long shot here obviously but hope our recruiters can find a good player in Rookie draft if not the main draft.
If we hadn't lost Jordan Lewis for zip while still contracted and holding enough value that another club is willing to pay $600K a year for 3 years for him, I would have given us a big tick for this trade based purely on end results. It was almost funny to read of Adelaide acting entitled and frustrated that Carlton wouldn't give them Gibbs based on "other" trades that had taken place this period.
asanque
Premium Platinum
Just a quick update to the above (open the tab for the update).
Summary:
This was a very difficult trade period to assess.
At the end of the day, we got all 3 players that we wanted to get.
If we put aside the Mitchell and Lewis trades, we paid and received pretty much fair value. So it was a reasonable trade period.
However, I still think we erred tactically throughout.
Assessment of Pick 10 trade:
The pick 10 trade with St Kilda was necessary as a backup plan to take JOM in the National draft.
However, I still think it could have been left to later in trade week (Obviously with the risk that St Kilda would have traded pick 10 to someone else, but given the value presented to St Kilda, they likely would have waited for us).
This would have opened up more flexibility to finalise the JOM trade later (e.g. Lyons (48), Witts (36) and 23 and 2017 first rounders to Suns instead of Picks 10 and 48).
(Edit: This may also ultimately have cost us an additional two second rounders as GC may have accepted the original trade at the last hour)
Mitchell / Lewis:
Mitchell and Lewis are both loyal servants of the club and I don't begrudge them seeking their fortunes elsewhere.
However, why re-sign them and then have Clarko ask them to look elsewhere if there are no salary cap issues?
Then, why trade them so early in the piece?
We were obviously caught by surprise when both Mitchell and Lewis wanted to leave.
I think the original game plan was for only one to leave.
We effectively gave WCE (a fellow contender) our B+F winner, valuable IP and a very promising assistant coach for nothing (including part paying his salary). We should have gotten more or at least left this to the end of the trade period.
By letting Mitchell leave so early and for so little, it also showed our weakness when Lewis wanted to leave.
If we hadn't traded Mitchell so early, it may have given us some options (albeit unlikely) to retain him, once we found out Lewis was definitely out.
Melbourne offered Lewis a 3 year contract and were very keen.
I felt we also should have extracted more value (e.g. 2017 second rounder in exchange for late picks) or left this until later in the piece.
Contrast this to the Tigers, who received a first rounder and third rounder in exchange for Deledio and a second rounder.
We may have been able to extract a 2017 second rounder from the Dees or at least some better value if we played hard ball to the end with the Dees.
With JOM up in the air, any small value would have been helpful to complete.
By trading Lewis so early, we lost all leverage for the JOM deal.
Ultimately, there has to be some middle ground between player satisfaction and reasonable value.
At the end of the day, we were lucky that the Blues came to the table to save the deal.
Historically, the Hawks have been renowned for getting deals done (paying slight overs at times if necessary).
However, this trade period was a good reality check, and I'm sure the Hawks will be looking back for ways to improve in future years.
Hopefully though, Cochrane will get the boot moving forward (although there will always be unreasonable trading partners).
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- Aug 28, 2010
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If we land a big fish at the end of next year I'd say we'll all look back on this trade period very positively in the grand scheme of things
crazywildhorse
Brownlow Medallist
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Well it ended up ok in the end. Now we're in the situation like when you mortgage everything you have to put hotels on Park Lane and Mayfair. Really bummed that we lost Mitchell, with him in the side we'd be in premiership contention I think. You'll never really know what happened in the communication there with those two players (Lewis and Mitchell), but it still seems like we stuffed that part up. May be it was part of the draft back-up plan. I'm gonna give us a C+, the genius here was finally finding a way to get a deal done with GC.
I'm not afraid I was wrong but seriously did you actually think this was all part of the plan????
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
What's being missed in the dissection of our trade period is that we didn't have to give up Breust, Poppy, Sicily, Hartung, WhiteX etc etc. Yes, Hill and two veterans departed but the depth we retained is massive. Also kept Brand and McEvoy on deck. Those are all big wins for mine.
I take it that the club are pretty happy with our list, but are in the process of rplenishing, player by player
Mitch and lewis are a grade, replaced by jom and tom. Hill is a utility and is replaced up to a point by vickery
There was no keeness to ship other players out. We still have three or four older guys and youd imagine free agency will be looked at for replacements for gibbo and hodgey first
Mitch and lewis are a grade, replaced by jom and tom. Hill is a utility and is replaced up to a point by vickery
There was no keeness to ship other players out. We still have three or four older guys and youd imagine free agency will be looked at for replacements for gibbo and hodgey first
Great 2008
Cancelled
- Nov 27, 2009
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To be honest, just glad it's over and that we didn't lose anyone else like Bruest, Smith or Poppy. The trade period is just awful
Glad you got through it bumps. Was a bit worried about ya.
- Mar 23, 2007
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Who is going to ruck next year with tired McEvoy?
Lowden
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
I think Fitz showed some positive signs that he could play second ruck if we persist with that strategy. If not we might go to one ruck with Vickery and maybe Schoey pinch hitting like Boyd and Roughead do at the Dogs.
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Nah - will be fun to bump when we win our next flag.
I'm happy with the result.
A future secon or third our way would have been nice but after watching the interviews of Clarko, Ty, Tom & JOM I'm convinced that it was the right course & worth the draft price.
On the back of not loosing anyone except Mitch & Lewis I think we are still a good chance to give the top 4 a nudge.
2016 draft... meh but interesting none the less at 88
Delistings... hmmm 4
Upgrades... easy x 2
Rookies... very interesting for me as I think this will be where we fill the senior list from an extended rookie list of 7 players
A future secon or third our way would have been nice but after watching the interviews of Clarko, Ty, Tom & JOM I'm convinced that it was the right course & worth the draft price.
On the back of not loosing anyone except Mitch & Lewis I think we are still a good chance to give the top 4 a nudge.
2016 draft... meh but interesting none the less at 88
Delistings... hmmm 4
Upgrades... easy x 2
Rookies... very interesting for me as I think this will be where we fill the senior list from an extended rookie list of 7 players
Furn2
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 27, 2012
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If you go to our last flag, all the way back to 2015 and do the ins and outs its gonna need some kids to step up but its possible we will be there about again.
Not like for like really but oh well
Out: Mitchell In: Mitchell:
Out: Lewis In: Jom
Out: Hale In: Vickery
Out: Hill In: Hartung
Out: Lake : In Brand
Out: Suckling In: Burton
So really the only way off is Brand who will need to step up majorly but it can happen.
We also need Rough back otherwise were pushing it.
Not like for like really but oh well
Out: Mitchell In: Mitchell:
Out: Lewis In: Jom
Out: Hale In: Vickery
Out: Hill In: Hartung
Out: Lake : In Brand
Out: Suckling In: Burton
So really the only way off is Brand who will need to step up majorly but it can happen.
We also need Rough back otherwise were pushing it.
Funny the draft is full of exciting top 20 draft prospects that fail or don't develop as expected. This year we picked up a 200cm fwd/ruck option which we were seriously missing with shoey and rough out this year. Mitchell in is massive for an engine room and combine with up and coming players like Lovell. Jor will need to step up this year. He has been hammered these forums but he has now had 2 years of development which he missed at gws due to injury. Expect big things in 2017.
Jom is the X factor. We trust the medico team to get him right as they have done with every player on our list. My only worry is that we paid overs but it is no different with the draft so happy to take the punt.
We have had so much developing with our rookie list. This is were I expect our next few stars to develop. We have history of being able to develop young players and being patient with them until they are ready.
Next year free agency will be open for us and that is making teams nervous. Loosing Mitchell was expected next year but it was going to happen and Hawks really looked after wc by helping with salary.
Lewis was really starting to turn the ball over a lot this year. He was never quick but is now getting rushed with disposal and starting to not be as effective with disposals. Hawks starting the turnover of the list and being in players that can win a game of footy. Hoping jom and Cyril light it up in 2017
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Jom is the X factor. We trust the medico team to get him right as they have done with every player on our list. My only worry is that we paid overs but it is no different with the draft so happy to take the punt.
We have had so much developing with our rookie list. This is were I expect our next few stars to develop. We have history of being able to develop young players and being patient with them until they are ready.
Next year free agency will be open for us and that is making teams nervous. Loosing Mitchell was expected next year but it was going to happen and Hawks really looked after wc by helping with salary.
Lewis was really starting to turn the ball over a lot this year. He was never quick but is now getting rushed with disposal and starting to not be as effective with disposals. Hawks starting the turnover of the list and being in players that can win a game of footy. Hoping jom and Cyril light it up in 2017
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Lewis and Mitchell owe HFC nothing. Very proud that we did not try to screw them over for a few incidental spots in the draft.
Me too, hard to keep the faith at times. Glad we didn't have to trade out youngsters. My father, who is 92, suffered terribly.To be honest, just glad it's over and that we didn't lose anyone else like Bruest, Smith or Poppy. The trade period is just awful
The Hopper
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Your dad is pick 92?
Clarko told lewy prob last year and no captaincy and u think Clarko didn't know what he's response would be?
Mitch they tried to move 12 months ago so they got what was right for both in the end
Got the 3 players they wanted at the price they knew they'd pay.
If Lewis was elsewhere and wanted to come here we'd pay pick 60ish too.
They look after their heros, like they're doing with Rough. That's fairy floss to most, but to Clarko and HFC sacrifice and mateship is what wins premierships. It's not all about #1 draft picks.
Just ask Bevo.
HFC and Clarko are miles in front of most, ppl are just too blind to see it.
Mitch they tried to move 12 months ago so they got what was right for both in the end
Got the 3 players they wanted at the price they knew they'd pay.
If Lewis was elsewhere and wanted to come here we'd pay pick 60ish too.
They look after their heros, like they're doing with Rough. That's fairy floss to most, but to Clarko and HFC sacrifice and mateship is what wins premierships. It's not all about #1 draft picks.
Just ask Bevo.
HFC and Clarko are miles in front of most, ppl are just too blind to see it.
benfranklin
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- Sep 20, 2013
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This is such a good point.
My first thought when landing O'Meara was sweet relief regarding the trade period.
My second thought was that it would have been a very good trade period if we had extracted a bit more value for Sam and Jordan.
My third thought is - would pick 44 be any less bloody speculative than pick 88?
crazywildhorse
Brownlow Medallist
- Thread starter
- #400
Exactly—for all three points.
