Player Watch #1 - Jesse Hogan - traded to Freo - #fistedforever

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He actually said some thing more like Melb would feel better about him leaving now than they would have 12 months ago, didn't really mention he was anymore or less confident he was was staying.
Wow, absent over the weekend and have walked in to find a 6 page sh*t-storm in here with eggs from every ******* club giving their opinion.
Put it to him this trade period you are either with now or you're gone, play WC and Freo off against each other with 2 x 1st round picks and a player as our desired compo. Don't **** around Dees, he gets to where he gets to and we put our foot down and get what we want.
I agree with this, if he's still refusing to sign by the time trade period rolls around, and still considering a move home, we should ship him off now
 

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Sando22

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I agree with this, if he's still refusing to sign by the time trade period rolls around, and still considering a move home, we should ship him off now
Yep and just call his bluff. Show him, our other players and the wider footy community we won't bend to some kid (however good he is) who has played 40 games and let it distract what should be a really exciting and positive year for a young group.
"look Jesse, if you're not committed then here's what is going to happen , you'll be going to **** and we'll be pushing to get x in return. If you don't like the sound of that then sign on"
 

Russian Demon

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Yep and just call his bluff. Show him, our other players and the wider footy community we won't bend to some kid (however good he is) who has played 40 games and let it distract what should be a really exciting and positive year for a young group.
"look Jesse, if you're not committed then here's what is going to happen , you'll be going to **** and we'll be pushing to get x in return. If you don't like the sound of that then sign on"
God i hope this happens soon. I mean it has to eventually doesn't it? I can't wait for the day a contracted player demands a trade somewhere, then the club basically tells them fine, you're going to x or you're off to (shithouse) y in the PSD. Your choice.
 
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God i hope this happens soon. I mean it has to eventually doesn't it? I can't wait for the day a contracted player demands a trade somewhere, then the club basically tells them fine, you're going to x or you're off to (shithouse) y in the PSD. Your choice.
It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
 

Russian Demon

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It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
I doubt it'll ever get to court, the players wouldn't have a eg to stand on. If they want to cry restraint of trade, then the AFL can turn around and say "No worries, we'll release you from your contract to ply your trade wherever you can".

I don't want it being like the NFL where contracts mean nothing, but i feel like the greater good of the comp is currently getting bent over by the AFLPA.
 

Sando22

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It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
Exactly.
 
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It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
I would actually like to see it tested in court.

No one is forcing a player to play footy in a particular location. If Player X will only play footy in Location Z, there is plenty of local football teams that can accomodate.

If, however, Player X wants to play in the AFL, he'll need to adhere to AFL rules.
 

Russian Demon

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I would actually like to see it tested in court.

No one is forcing a player to play footy in a particular location. If Player X will only play footy in Location Z, there is plenty of local football teams that can accomodate.

If, however, Player X wants to play in the AFL, he'll need to adhere to AFL rules.
I think that is what i was trying to say...

Restraint of trade doesn't exist if a player can move and play VFL/WAFL/NEAFL..... all of which you can earn a wage of enough to live on..... just.
 
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I doubt it'll ever get to court, the players wouldn't have a eg to stand on. If they want to cry restraint of trade, then the AFL can turn around and say "No worries, we'll release you from your contract to ply your trade wherever you can".

I don't want it being like the NFL where contracts mean nothing, but i feel like the greater good of the comp is currently getting bent over by the AFLPA.
Players have already taken the VFL/AFL to court of restraint of trade, only one to lose as far as I know was buckenara, and that was because he was still in contract. Read the case law on it, if a player is coming out of contract, and the club refuses to trade them to where they want, it'd get through. It was similar to the Peter Hall case, he was zoned to collingwood, and they refused to clear him to souths.

It's also up to the defendant to show why the restraint is reasonable in the interests of the game, I doubt you'd get any judge agreeing that forcing a player to move to where the club wants is a reasonable force in the interests of the game.

If it went to court it would most likely end up finding that uncontracted players are restrained by the current system. There's a heap of summary studies done it to it

I don't know why you think contracts mean nothing in the NFL, they've actually had some wins in restraint cases.
 
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I think that is what i was trying to say...

Restraint of trade doesn't exist if a player can move and play VFL/WAFL/NEAFL..... all of which you can earn a wage of enough to live on..... just.
1. I think you're overestimating what state level players are paid. Every one I know either studies full time, studies full time and works part time, or works full time, as well as playing footy
2. If a player was forced to move to a lower level, based on a club refusing to trade them, they could seek compo based on money lost due to the restraint. It's happened before
 

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I would actually like to see it tested in court.

No one is forcing a player to play footy in a particular location. If Player X will only play footy in Location Z, there is plenty of local football teams that can accomodate.

If, however, Player X wants to play in the AFL, he'll need to adhere to AFL rules.
Again, this is a misunderstanding of the law mate. A player being forced to play at a severely discounted wage, due to a club refusing to trade the player would be ****** in court.
 

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1. I think you're overestimating what state level players are paid. Every one I know either studies full time, studies full time and works part time, or works full time, as well as playing footy
2. If a player was forced to move to a lower level, based on a club refusing to trade them, they could seek compo based on money lost due to the restraint. It's happened before
what was the case?
 
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Again, this is a misunderstanding of the law mate. A player being forced to play at a severely discounted wage, due to a club refusing to trade the player would be stuffed in court.
It's a moot point anyway, clubs don't have the power to do much at all at present, but should it change the way that it should, it'll be approved in the CBA and the players won't have a leg to stand on should they wish to pursue any legal action anyway.

This time last year i was very close to having to pack up my family and move to Melbourne within about 2 months. It's just part of some industries
 
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It's not restraint of trade at all.

He's not being forced to play State League footy, thats Plan B, Plan A is either fulfilling his contract (failure to do so is indeed a legal issue, but not in favour of the player) or if out of contract, he can then go through the draft, where he has the option of setting his contract price.
 

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It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
The funny thing is, in theory, if we cracked the shits because we couldn't do a deal and then we delisted him, he'd have to nominate for the draft and under the rules, if Brisbane picked him, he'd have to go live in Brisbane. It's not restraint of trade. It's the way the national draft works. They'd be stupid to do it, but this idea that the AFLPA can guarantee safe passage to the destination city of choice is not true. Of course this would never happen, he'd just re-sign with us if a deal couldn't be done. But really, if he has any integrity and he needs to be with his dad, and he couldn't get to WC or Freo, he'd just quit the game and play WAFL until he can get to an AFL club in Perth.

AFL players are very spoiled. They want everything on their terms. Nobody else gets to have their dream job in their chosen city just because their dad is sick. I lived in Austria and I'd probably still be there if I didn't have to come home for my family. Now my life is here. I had to sacrifice something. It's the way life is. Why is Jesse Hogan so damn special because he can kind play football? (can't even kick straight). He's a bit of a Tom Boyd, I suspect - heard too many compliments in his life, thinks the universe rotates around him.
 

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It won't happen. The AFL is on a knife edge with restriction of trade already, they never want it tested in court.

I don't think we are saying we would force hogan to go to say QLD or NSW if they offer the best, we are saying we will honour his request to go back home, by trading him to the best offer from either WC or freo.
Oh, and it's not "honouring his request" we are talking about. It would be "begrudgingly complying with his request through gnashed teeth because we had no other choice". He hasn't earned honour at our club. So far, he's done nothing. If he'd played for 7 years and tried his guts out, that would be honouring his request.
 

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I agree with this, if he's still refusing to sign by the time trade period rolls around, and still considering a move home, we should ship him off now
Disagree, Hogan will be one of the best forwards in the comp for the next 10-15 years, I'd rather give him all of next year to decide. No need to panic and lose a star that might want stay.
 
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The funny thing is, in theory, if we cracked the shits because we couldn't do a deal and then we delisted him, he'd have to nominate for the draft and under the rules, if Brisbane picked him, he'd have to go live in Brisbane. It's not restraint of trade. It's the way the national draft works. They'd be stupid to do it, but this idea that the AFLPA can guarantee safe passage to the destination city of choice is not true. Of course this would never happen, he'd just re-sign with us if a deal couldn't be done. But really, if he has any integrity and he needs to be with his dad, and he couldn't get to WC or Freo, he'd just quit the game and play WAFL until he can get to an AFL club in Perth.

AFL players are very spoiled. They want everything on their terms. Nobody else gets to have their dream job in their chosen city just because their dad is sick. I lived in Austria and I'd probably still be there if I didn't have to come home for my family. Now my life is here. I had to sacrifice something. It's the way life is. Why is Jesse Hogan so damn special because he can kind play football? (can't even kick straight). He's a bit of a Tom Boyd, I suspect - heard too many compliments in his life, thinks the universe rotates around him.
As I said, go and read the law history and pieces on it. The draft would most likely be found to be restraint of trade if ever challenged. There is a shit tonne of research done into it.
 
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Disagree, Hogan will be one of the best forwards in the comp for the next 10-15 years, I'd rather give him all of next year to decide. No need to panic and lose a star that might want stay.
And then we have an out of contract player with less value if he still wants to leave? I'm not sure what another year would do to 'convince' him?
 

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Ox thinks he's staying. Says Melbourne are alot more confident now than they were 12 months ago. Having said that from memory he always said Scully would stay too.
Nah Ox was the one that said he was 98% sure he was gone early on.. he usually has pretty good info before he makes a call
 

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As I said, go and read the law history and pieces on it. The draft would most likely be found to be restraint of trade if ever challenged. There is a shit tonne of research done into it.
All we have to do is honour his current playing contract. We can delist him after that. We don't have to do a deal that returns him to Perth at an AFL club. We don't have to play him in the meantime. Just have to pay him. After that contract ends we don't have to do anything for him. What's with your obsession with mentioning law? It's not that complicated.
 
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All we have to do is honour his current playing contract. We can delist him after that. We don't have to do a deal that returns him to Perth at an AFL club. We don't have to play him in the meantime. Just have to pay him. After that contract ends we don't have to do anything for him. What's with your obsession with mentioning law? It's not that complicated.
Because you quoted me discussing the law behind a restraint of trade...like it was the entire premise of the quote you posted. You made a dispute to this being a restraint. I've mentioned in like 3 times now, since it was part of the discussion.
You are weirdly passive agressive. Stick to the topic, not that hard.

I like the lengths you're now going to, as if the club is going to de-list him instead of dealing with a WA club. Are you ross lyon?
 
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