Player Watch #1 - Jesse Hogan - traded to Freo - #fistedforever

[00Stinger]

Officially eating my words - I think we'd have a better side with Jesse at CHB and TMac/Weid up forward.

what about Weid at CHB or playing the Lever role?

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[A11dAtP0w3R]

y'all losing your minds, wasn't long ago Hogan and McDonald were firing on all cylinders together, given, he's not playing very well at all at the moment but lets not reinvent the wheel and make him a backman for gods sake.

 

[Proper Gander]

y'all losing your minds, wasn't long ago Hogan and McDonald were firing on all cylinders together, given, he's not playing very well at all at the moment but lets not reinvent the wheel and make him a backman for gods sake.

Thank * sanity prevails

 

[Grimesy87]

y'all losing your minds, wasn't long ago Hogan and McDonald were firing on all cylinders together, given, he's not playing very well at all at the moment but lets not reinvent the wheel and make him a backman for gods sake.

Yep, beating up on gold coast and a half strength adelaide.

I'm giving him a very small out as I think that knee he copped in the back early in the geelong game hindered his impact. But the facts are, against Collingwood and port (and Saturday night, which we will scratch for benefit of the doubt) Jesse has been fairly ordinary in games the pressure has been up. However, McDonald has still scored and given a very strong target.

I dont subscribe to the thought that he "drinks his own bath water" or the like, but I'd really like to see him take a couple of these higher pressure games by the scruff with some hard leading, link up play and some really strong contested marking.

He gets a great chance Saturday night.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Yep, beating up on gold coast and a half strength adelaide.

I'm giving him a very small out as I think that knee he copped in the back early in the geelong game hindered his impact. But the facts are, against Collingwood and port (and Saturday night, which we will scratch for benefit of the doubt) Jesse has been fairly ordinary in games the pressure has been up. However, McDonald has still scored and given a very strong target.

I dont subscribe to the thought that he "drinks his own bath water" or the like, but I'd really like to see him take a couple of these higher pressure games by the scruff with some hard leading, link up play and some really strong contested marking.

He gets a great chance Saturday night.

For starters, you forgot the WB match earlier in the year when he and TMac both tore it up.

As for the rest, so... when someone doesn't perform at their peak against a decent opposition we do what they do at under 9's and put em at the opposite end of the ground next week do we?

Sounds like something a quality organisation would do.

Id rather hear "trade him" than this garbage of "try him down back" .. We've seen he has the talent to play forward, but right now, be it himself being low on confidence, the game style/forward set up or the delivery to him he's struggling. But that doesn't mean we lose our minds and move him into defence on the back of TMac suddenly becoming a superstar forward.

Get the forward line functioning correctly first FFS, its no wonder he is struggling with confidence or leading to the ball when we are bombing it into the 50 every chance we get. How bout we work out how to give him some space to lead into for starters? That would involve not flooding our own 50 though, so perhaps I'm asking for too much.

 

[Grimesy87]

For starters, you forgot the WB match earlier in the year when he and TMac both tore it up.

As for the rest, so... when someone doesn't perform at their peak against a decent opposition we do what they do at under 9's and put em at the opposite end of the ground next week do we?

Sounds like something a quality organisation would do.

Id rather hear "trade him" than this garbage of "try him down back" .. We've seen he has the talent to play forward, but right now, be it himself being low on confidence, the game style/forward set up or the delivery to him he's struggling. But that doesn't mean we lose our minds and move him into defence on the back of TMac suddenly becoming a superstar forward.

Get the forward line functioning correctly first FFS, its no wonder he is struggling with confidence or leading to the ball when we are bombing it into the 50 every chance we get. How bout we work out how to give him some space to lead into for starters? That would involve not flooding our own 50 though, so perhaps I'm asking for too much.

I'm not advocating him going to chb, in my mind he wont play that role very well. Perhaps he would, but I dont think hes made of that quality like a rance ot talia who just despise getting beaten. Not an insult at Jesse, I just think hes happy enough to win more than he loses.

Which probably underlines what I'm trying to say- does he accept being beaten too easily? The throwing the hands out, looking at umpires for free kicks that he does (less than years gone by, but still creep into his game). Compare him to the 2 players that all key forwards should look to emulate from this era- nick reiwoldt and Jonathan brown. Those 2 hated being beaten in a contest. If you beat brown in a contest, you knew he would go even harder at the next to make sure it didnt happen again. Reiwoldt would work you over until your lungs felt they would explode. Hogan is a very smart player, who has a huge motor, a good turn of speed and good hands. I feel like he isn't utilizing them to his advantage enough yet. Especially not when the pressure is up. Doesnt mean he wont in time, hes still only played 50 odd games after all.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I'm not advocating him going to chb, in my mind he wont play that role very well. Perhaps he would, but I dont think hes made of that quality like a rance ot talia who just despise getting beaten. Not an insult at Jesse, I just think hes happy enough to win more than he loses.

Which probably underlines what I'm trying to say- does he accept being beaten too easily? The throwing the hands out, looking at umpires for free kicks that he does (less than years gone by, but still creep into his game). Compare him to the 2 players that all key forwards should look to emulate from this era- nick reiwoldt and Jonathan brown. Those 2 hated being beaten in a contest. If you beat brown in a contest, you knew he would go even harder at the next to make sure it didnt happen again. Reiwoldt would work you over until your lungs felt they would explode. Hogan is a very smart player, who has a huge motor, a good turn of speed and good hands. I feel like he isn't utilizing them to his advantage enough yet. Especially not when the pressure is up. Doesnt mean he wont in time, hes still only played 50 odd games after all.

You can't compare him to Brown and Reiwoldt. Completely different personalities and make ups. Jesse is a confidence player and will be for his career. You can see that already. I call it the Gen Y bug (Josh Schache, Tom Boyd etc etc) He doesn't have the steely resolve to pick himself up no matter what. Of course he can get better (and i hope he does) of bringing his worst games and best games closer together. That is one thing he needs to fix. Id like him see him compete stronger in one on one's but if we have aspirations of him being a Jonathan Brown we have our heads up our arse. He doesn't have it in him. Lets just let him be the best Jesse Hogan he can be rather than trying to compare him to former greats.

 

[Grimesy87]

You can't compare him to Brown and Reiwoldt. Completely different personalities and make ups. Jesse is confidence player and will be for his career. You can see that already. I call it the Gen Y bug (Josh Schache, Tom Boyd etc etc) He doesn't have the steely resolve to pick himself up no matter what. Of course he can get better and i hope he does of bring his worst games and best games closer together. That is one thing he needs to fix. Id like him see him compete stronger in one on one's but if we have aspirations of him being a Jonathan Brown we have our heads up our arse. He doesn't have it in him. Lets just let him be the best Jesse Hogan he can be rather than trying to compare him to former greats.

It's not about comparing them, and saying Jesse is a failure of he doesnt emulate brown. As you said, we would have our heads up our ass. He probably only needs to look at jack reiwoldt going from sulky, erratic enigma to the selfless player he now is. Anyway while he wears red and blue, I'll back him in and support him, hoping he does bridge that gap between best and worst

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

It's not about comparing them, and saying Jesse is a failure of he doesnt emulate brown. As you said, we would have our heads up our ass. He probably only needs to look at jack reiwoldt going from sulky, erratic enigma to the selfless player he now is. Anyway while he wears red and blue, I'll back him in and support him, hoping he does bridge that gap between best and worst

Jack's probably a fair comparison by personality. And it took him an awful long time to shake the stigma of being a sook. Im sure he will grow out of it at some point. The talent is there and from all reports he's a hard worker on the track. Just feel we are expecting too much from him, he's entitled to be given a pass as he goes through a form slump at his age and after all he's been through these past few years i reckon.

 

[Klyntonius]

You can't compare him to Brown and Reiwoldt. Completely different personalities and make ups. Jesse is a confidence player and will be for his career. You can see that already. I call it the Gen Y bug (Josh Schache, Tom Boyd etc etc) He doesn't have the steely resolve to pick himself up no matter what. Of course he can get better (and i hope he does) of bringing his worst games and best games closer together. That is one thing he needs to fix. Id like him see him compete stronger in one on one's but if we have aspirations of him being a Jonathan Brown we have our heads up our arse. He doesn't have it in him. Lets just let him be the best Jesse Hogan he can be rather than trying to compare him to former greats.

Selling Jesse's resolve short there a bit I think. Fought through as much adversity as any player I've ever seen in his career so far.


I find his case to be something of a mystery. He has gained a reputation as a flat track bully this year - fairly too, on his performances. But this isn't something said of him in the past. I don't think he has suddenly become soft/lazy/dumb/overawed. I can only put it down to his role as a forward. The only thing that makes sense to me is he is struggling with his role, either understanding what is required /how to carry out out or he's being asked to play in a way he is incapable of fulfilling unless against inferior opposition when his talent can overpower them.

I hope whatever the cause they can get it remedied because we will be a much better team with a consistently dangerous Jesse Hogan.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Selling Jesse's resolve short there a bit I think. Fought through as much adversity as any player I've ever seen in his career so far.


I find his case to be something of a mystery. He has gained a reputation as a flat track bully this year - fairly too, on his performances. But this isn't something said of him in the past. I don't think he has suddenly become soft/lazy/dumb/overawed. I can only put it down to his role as a forward. The only thing that makes sense to me is he is struggling with his role, either understanding what is required /how to carry out out or he's being asked to play in a way he is incapable of fulfilling unless against inferior opposition when his talent can overpower them.

I hope whatever the cause they can get it remedied because we will be a much better team with a consistently dangerous Jesse Hogan.

Oh i agree with just about all of your post, just meant that when it appears he isn't "on" early in games, it stays that way. Struggles to find a rhythm or force himself upon a game like Brown did. Change the narrative or momentum of a contest on his lonesome. Not many can like Brown was to be fair.

Im not knocking him, if anything I'm going into bat for him, think he's an easy target to point to when he plays ordinary because everyone has such high expectations on him being a match winner for us week in week out.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

He’s fine.

 

[Cannon82]

y'all losing your minds, wasn't long ago Hogan and McDonald were firing on all cylinders together, given, he's not playing very well at all at the moment but lets not reinvent the wheel and make him a backman for gods sake.

Reason I think Hogan would make a very good backman is because of his well-rounded skillset and attributes. He's quick enough, strong enough, fit enough and smart enough to go with most key forwards in the league. Main focus is on not getting beaten / losing contests, which he'd be handy at because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. Also the reason why I don't think he'll be a consistently dominant key forward is because he doesn't have any of those elite attributes that will give him an advantage over decent defenders.

Interesting you say us who are open to the idea of moving Hogan back are "losing our minds". I'm sure most wouldn't have an issue moving TMac back to defense because, hey, he's played there before, but why would you send the player who is clearly the team's standout forward into the back line?

Hogan vs TMac

Player Statistics Comparison
Jesse Hogan Name Tom McDonald
Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons
Forward Position Defender, Forward
68 Career Games 138
Claremont Origin North Ballarat
February 12, 1995 Date of Birth September 18, 1992
23yr 5mth Age 25yr 10mth
195cm Height 194cm
100kg Weight 100kg
2012 Mini Draft Last Drafted In 2010 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #2 Last Draft Position Round 3, Pick #53
Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons
2018 Stats for Season 2018
17 Games 12
10.5 Kicks Per Game 9.8
8.0 Handballs Per Game 6.5
18.5 Disposals Per Game 16.2
6.3 Marks Per Game 6.1
2.4 Goals Per Game 3.1
1.1 Behinds Per Game 1.0
2.1 Tackles Per Game 2.3
0.5 Hitouts Per Game 1.6
2.9 Inside 50s Per Game 3.0
0.7 Goal Assists Per Game 0.9
2.0 Frees For Per Game 0.9
0.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.8
8.2 Contested Possessions Per Game 8.0
10.9 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 8.8
12.4 Effective Disposals Per Game 12.0
67% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 74.1%
2.7 Clangers Per Game 2.0
1.2 Contested Marks Per Game 1.8
2.2 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 3.0
0.7 Clearances Per Game 1.0
0.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.3
1.5 One Percenters Per Game 2.5
0 Bounces Per Game 0.2
88.7 Time On Ground % Per Game 83.2
0.2 Centre Clearances Per Game 0.2
0.5 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 0.8
7.3 Score Involvements Per Game 7.6
246.9 Metres Gained Per Game 249.9
3.0 Turnovers Per Game 2.2
1.7 Intercepts Per Game 2.5
0.8 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0.8
$570,000 AFL Fantasy Price $565,000
90.1 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 89.6
$453,100 Supercoach Price $455,300
93.8 Supercoach Score Per Game 100.4

TMac is kicking more goals, setting more goals up, taking more contested marks, delivering inside 50 more, tackling more, pressuring more, involved in scores more often while spending less time on the ground and from less possessions. If Weideman suddenly kicked on or we signed another quality key forward, rather than try and shoe-horn three talls into the side again, I would absolutely much rather we tried Hogan in the backline. OMac does need the help back there considering the Omnipotent Saviour is injured, Frost is unreliable and Wagner out of favour. I think our forward line would benefit from having a forward focal point (like a better version of Weideman) who the smalls can crumb off and leave TMac to run around and find pockets of space. Maybe that forward kicks less goals but we score more as a team. We don't need two players who like to run all over the shop, leave the forward fifty empty and don't provide a lot of predictability for the mids / crumbers (other than standing under long balls and wrestling).

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Sorry Cannon82 but I'm definitely not a person who wants TMac moved back, id much rather we progress with a two headed monster and find a way to make it work, it could (and should) be a huge advantage for us. You just look at how Kennedy and Darling is for the Eagles. We could be that and more.

Im almost positive it can and will work, it just needs some refinement, whether that happens under this coaching staff or another is another story

 

[Cannon82]

SEND TMAC BACK!

Liar!

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Liar!

But, i take your point about the backline being a massive worry. Perhaps in special circumstances such as last week against Geelong when Hawkins is ripping us to bits and Jesse is not doing much up forward i could see it being something we could at least try in game. But on a permanent basis I'm not a fan of it.

 

[Cannon82]

But, i take your point about the backline being a massive worry. Perhaps in special circumstances such as last week against Geelong when Hawkins is ripping us to bits and Jesse is not doing much up forward i could see it being something we could at least try in game. But on a permanent basis I'm not a fan of it.

As I said, won't happen unless we suddenly have a tall forward conundrum on our hands. Weid would need to take a gargantuan leap forward or because we've signed someone like Lynch.

 

[Klyntonius]

Oh i agree with just about all of your post, just meant that when it appears he isn't "on" early in games, it stays that way. Struggles to find a rhythm or force himself upon a game like Brown did. Change the narrative or momentum of a contest on his lonesome. Not many can like Brown was to be fair.

Im not knocking him, if anything I'm going into bat for him, think he's an easy target to point to when he plays ordinary because everyone has such high expectations on him being a match winner for us week in week out.

Yeah. He has some Jonathan Brown style traits in his game (or has done in the past) but definitely is a more passive personality and appears content to go with the team rather than lead the team which is a shame as leadership is something we are well short of.

 

[Tulip]

I call it the Gen Y bug (Josh Schache, Tom Boyd etc etc) He doesn't have the steely resolve to pick himself up no matter what.

What, diagnosed depression? Would you rather they put on a facade throughout their careers, and then pissed the rest of their lives up the wall in retirement on booze and punting like so many others have? I agree with your Hogan contention on-field, but this is a careless and reckless post.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

What, diagnosed depression? Would you rather they put on a facade throughout their careers, and then pissed the rest of their lives up the wall in retirement on booze and punting like so many others have? I agree with your Hogan contention on-field, but this is a careless and reckless post.

Take a point to the extreme there mate, i could go on with numerous examples of key forwards that aren't like they used to make them. Jonathan Patton, Cam McCarthy, Sam Weidman, Joe Daniher etc etc... all "confidence" players, wasn't at all a shot at people with depression, they were just two that came to mind.

 

[Cannon82]

but this is a careless and reckless post.

It really isn't. Foot off the hyperbole pedal.

 

[Topkent]

What, diagnosed depression? Would you rather they put on a facade throughout their careers, and then pissed the rest of their lives up the wall in retirement on booze and punting like so many others have? I agree with your Hogan contention on-field, but this is a careless and reckless post.

You've completely misread his post mate. He was definently talking about how they place nice footy and have zero impact on the game unless they are full of confidence. No defender is ever underneath a high ball worrying about Schache or Boyd behind them. Hogan can't take a contested mark. Patton is a ruck essentially. They all feel like they are players from other positions masquerading as key forwards.

 

[degustation]

He's underachieving for his early trajectory but still about as good as you'd want from any 70 game forward I think. Not exactly time to swing him to CHB, but maybe time to give up on the godly aspirations we all held for him after 2015/16

 

[Topkent]

Completely agree with Cannon82. Not sure why you have to just pigeon hole Hogan as only a forward when he's just good at it anyway. It's that naive thinking that would have never saw Tmac Jetta Melksham etc find their best spot. I think Hogans a good player who can certainly do a job forward, but where do I think he would play his best footy and most valuable to the team? Down back for me. When your main skill is your engine and ability to read the ball your the perfect modern day defender. Plus his good vision would help our ball movement. He is no help at all to our structure in games against well organised defences because he doesn't have the physical attributes you need in the modern day. Mason Cox has become a decent forward purely because he is tall.

 

[Tulip]

Take a point to the extreme there mate, i could go on with numerous examples of key forwards that aren't like they used to make them. Jonathan Patton, Cam McCarthy, Sam Weidman, Joe Daniher etc etc... all "confidence" players, wasn't at all a shot at people with depression, they were just two that came to mind.

Fair enough . Sensitive topic, didn't mean to accuse you of anything.