Player Watch #1 - Jesse Hogan - traded to Freo - #fistedforever

[Hotdees]

We can play all three, provided we accept that Hogan is a winger who has stints through the midfield. Don't understand why he ever plays deep forward unless he is taking advantage of a mismatch for a few minutes a game.

I can certainly see why people have gripes with the way Hogan plays/is used, but much of it still smacks to me of people making problems where there isn't one. Hogan certainly isn't the only star Dees player to beat up on s**t teams this season, and we need a bigger sample size before we can used rds 22 and 23, which he was injured for, as examples for why we lose to good teams because of Hogan. The whole debate reminds me a lot of Jack Watts, who never came close to the player Hogan is, with people desperate to come up for an answer for someone who, in this instance, I don't personally think is much of a problem.

My opinion: Hogan still lacks significant conditioning after what happened last year, and he dropped off significantly in the second half of the season as a result. He went through the lessons about losing to good side with the rest of the group, but wasn't around when it all clicked. If he gets a clean run at it over the next 12 months, I could see 40 goals for the year, and 8 marks and 17-18 touches a game. He needs to get it through his head that he's not good enough at wrestling defenders, and that he needs to slim down so he can burn guys on the lead.

I think the sample size is a little bigger than rounds 22 and 23. We’ve consistently played better in big games without him over a 3 year period. Not saying we can’t make it work but it’s a worrying trend.

I don’t want to lose Jesse but Let’s say Freo get Pick 4 as part of the Lachie Neale trade. What do we do if they come with an offer of picks 4 and 5 with something going back their way.

 

[Fork n Hell]

I think the sample size is a little bigger than rounds 22 and 23. We’ve consistently played better in big games without him over a 3 year period. Not saying we can’t make it work but it’s a worrying trend.

I don’t want to lose Jesse but Let’s say Freo get Pick 4 as part of the Lachie Neale trade. What do we do if they come with an offer of picks 4 and 5 with something going back their way.

I'd say SOLD!

 

[Cannon82]

I don’t want to lose Jesse but Let’s say Freo get Pick 4 as part of the Lachie Neale trade. What do we do if they come with an offer of picks 4 and 5 with something going back their way.

I'd be open to trading Hogan for a couple of firsts. We could use them to trade in a star, or better yet, pick up a couple of talented 18 year olds who will do nothing for us in the coming couple of years but will become cornerstones of our side in the future. We need to give up this finals, let's-try-and-win-a-premiership malarkey and just focus on on being s**t and rebuilding our side every every five years.

 

[saj_21]

Roosy made a good observation, we went 6-6-6 at centre bounces, across the field which balanced our forward line a lot better. It’s too simplistic to say it’s hogsn fault when the forward line doesn’t work. Correlation isn’t causation

 

[Fork n Hell]

Roosy made a good observation, we went 6-6-6 at centre bounces, across the field which balanced our forward line a lot better. It’s too simplistic to say it’s hogsn fault when the forward line doesn’t work. Correlation isn’t causation

yeah I don't blame Hogan for that. I blamed Goodwin for it several times this year though, for not playing a more man on man style as opposed to his 7 or 8 man defensive set ups that left our forwards outnumbered every week and caused confusion in our defenders. its no wonder we had massive inside 50's but couldn't capitalize on it. and its no coincidence that the last couple of weeks Roosy has been banging about how we've switched to a more 6-6-6 style, because he knew our setups before that sucked and weren't going to win us finals.

 

[BG32]

I don’t want to lose Jesse but Let’s say Freo get Pick 4 as part of the Lachie Neale trade. What do we do if they come with an offer of picks 4 and 5 with something going back their way.

Having seen him play this season id do that in a heart beat. We play better without him (dissapointing because he is a solid player). Watch his 2015/16 highlights he would jump at the ball, win 1 on 1's and be light on his feet. Saw a tiny bit of that early 2018 but lost it Queens birthday onwards

 

[Topkent]

I think people forget that that all conquering Adelaide side only won 15 games last year home and away while we won 14 this year with a crap home record. There's no doubt in my mind we could have beaten that Adelaide team aswell.

 

[Tulip]

I think the sample size is a little bigger than rounds 22 and 23. We’ve consistently played better in big games without him over a 3 year period. Not saying we can’t make it work but it’s a worrying trend.

I don’t want to lose Jesse but Let’s say Freo get Pick 4 as part of the Lachie Neale trade. What do we do if they come with an offer of picks 4 and 5 with something going back their way.

We certainly do have a better record in the 'big' games, that's true, but then how about all the big games we have lost by a goal? Does that failure to close a result lie at Hogan's door? Its chicken and egg stuff, for me. We play a different game style when Hogan is out and Weideman is in, but that seems to be because the coaches don't trust Weideman like they do Hogan and play him in a way that would make Hogan's life easier. Its damning that our F50 entries are so much more damaging without Jesse - why do the mids automatically kick to him rather than lowering their eyes and taking the best option like they do when he's not playing?

 

[00Stinger]

I think people forget that that all conquering Adelaide side only won 15 games last year home and away while we won 14 this year with a crap home record. There's no doubt in my mind we could have beaten that Adelaide team aswell.

your right. For some reason i had thought they won more than that

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[Tulip]

Having seen him play this season id do that in a heart beat. We play better without him (dissapointing because he is a solid player). Watch his 2015/16 highlights he would jump at the ball, win 1 on 1's and be light on his feet. Saw a tiny bit of that early 2018 but lost it Queens birthday onwards

Surely this points to a trend, given the emotional and physical toll of 2017?

 

[Topkent]

your right. For some reason i had thought they won more than that

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So did I before I checked it, it felt like they dominated all season but actually they were just an average side in year without a special team.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

So did I before I checked it, it felt like they dominated all season but actually they were just an average side in year without a special team.

Richmond were significantly better than Adelaide after roughly R10 IIRC, abominable loss to St Kilda notwithstanding

 

[Ando727]

Have you ever met one of those people who, for some reason, you just want to make them happy? You don't know why, they just have this aura about them that it's better to make them happy because you know you don't want them being grumpy. I think Jesse is that guy. As long as he is that guy, he upsets the way we play. He figures too strongly in our thinking whenever we push into the forward half. It's not even his fault - he just has this thing where guys are focussed on him. I'd say if we can't break this, we should trade him. We can get something else we need if we trade him now - while his value is still high (although his foot might have knocked that down a bit)

Weid is not as good as Hogan at this stage, but he's taking some marks and he's not the focal point, which means we are assessing our forward entries based on what looks like the best option, rather than looking out for Hogan when he is playing. Sad, but true. He's not a bad guy, he can't help it - he's just an intense dude, he's emotional, he wears his frustration on his face and body. His teammates react to it, it messes up our decision-making.

 

[PerfectFooty]

I think people forget that that all conquering Adelaide side only won 15 games last year home and away while we won 14 this year with a crap home record. There's no doubt in my mind we could have beaten that Adelaide team aswell.

And we did

 

[Klyntonius]

I don’t think there’s any doubt you can make it work from a scoring perspective. The problem is the defensive stuff when ball hits the deck in our forward 50.

A valid concern but I think that can largely be mitigated by structure - having no more than two of tall forwards inside 50 at any one time with at least one of them roaming further up field in a link up capacity.
Because they're so athletic and with high motors, I think they're well flexible enough that they can be effective together.

 

[00Stinger]

Roosy wants him at CHB next year

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[Topkent]

Roosy wants him at CHB next year

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Piss off Roosy get your own ideas

 

[Proper Gander]

Piss off Roosy get your own ideas

You prick. After he said it, I became convinced that Topkent is Roos BF account. You’ve wreaked it now.

 

[Topkent]

You prick. After he said it, I became convinced that Topkent is Roos BF account. You’ve wreaked it now.

Maybe it's just a front to keep you guessing to protect all my favourites like Hogesy Harmesy Jonesy Jettsy and vandenbergsy

 

[Tulip]

Topkent - just watched OTC, here's the lowdown.

1. Melbourne would be absolutely mad to trade him. Completely insane. Even if someone throws the farm at him, the impact on both our on-field fortunes and also breaking up a young group coming together would be enormous.
2. Our results have definitely improved in his absence, particularly our forward pressure, but that's not totally a Hogan thing. One of the coaching moves to combat his absence was to go 6-6-6 and to reevaluate our forward entries. (Its still a slight concern that it took Hogan going out to make that happen.)
3. We can definitely play all three forwards and make it work well, but he should definitely be spending some time down back over the pre-season both to see whether he'd be good at it (Roosy thinks he'd be brilliant), but also to educate him on defensive movement and pressure.

They were emphatic on the first point, but I hadn't ever thought about it from a list building POV before. My preference is to have Hogan playing wing, but he definitely needs to improve his ground level pressure. We would be genuinely mad to trade him, particularly now that Cerra has recommitted at Freo, but I agree with you that it's definitely worth trialling him around the ground in light of Weideman's breakout.

 

[Tulip]

You prick. After he said it, I became convinced that Topkent is Roos BF account. You’ve wreaked it now.

I'd always had the impression that Roos was literate though?

 

[schmuttt]

Topkent - just watched OTC, here's the lowdown.

1. Melbourne would be absolutely mad to trade him. Completely insane. Even if someone throws the farm at him, the impact on both our on-field fortunes and also breaking up a young group coming together would be enormous.
2. Our results have definitely improved in his absence, particularly our forward pressure, but that's not totally a Hogan thing. One of the coaching moves to combat his absence was to go 6-6-6 and to reevaluate our forward entries. (Its still a slight concern that it took Hogan going out to make that happen.)
3. We can definitely play all three forwards and make it work well, but he should definitely be spending some time down back over the pre-season both to see whether he'd be good at it (Roosy thinks he'd be brilliant), but also to educate him on defensive movement and pressure.

They were emphatic on the first point, but I hadn't ever thought about it from a list building POV before. My preference is to have Hogan playing wing, but he definitely needs to improve his ground level pressure. We would be genuinely mad to trade him, particularly now that Cerra has recommitted at Freo, but I agree with you that it's definitely worth trialling him around the ground in light of Weideman's breakout.

Don't think Topkent was ever suggesting booting him out out of the club, that'd be a suicidal move. Moreso if he was leaning towards a move back home that we facilitate it ASAP.

 

[Tulip]

Don't think Topkent was ever suggesting booting him out out of the club, that'd be a suicidal move. Moreso if he was leaning towards a move back home that we facilitate it ASAP.

To my knowledge, he is not in Topkent's best 22.

 

[melbournemartin]

I would want to try him as a defender before trading him. I would also want a lot more proof about Weiderman before pinning all of our hopes on him.

 

[Proper Gander]

I wouldn’t trade him at all. He’s a very gifted player and we’d be daft to push him out.