Autopsy 10 goal loss to the Pies - Rd 11, 2018

[Thistle]

Most frustrating post of how we play is that no one seems to want the ball. Our strategy when we have the ball looks like keep possession and hope that that someone makes a strong lead, but everyone just meanders around at half pace expecting some one else to take the initiative. If we do somehow hit a target up the field we rarely have men running by or a plan to open up the game.

I've seen us play Richmond and the pies live and the difference between them and is night and day. Every run they make is with purpose and you have players like treloer, sidebottom, dusty etc. demanding the ball.

 

[Bicco]

Cheers for that, response that i'm after? I'm not after any response- purely stating that that sort of submission from a head coach is not acceptable given the quality of the Fremantle list which is undisputable. Fyfe,Neale, Walters, Pearce, Mundy, Blakely, Banfield, Cerra, Mundy (they all played today)............... do I need to go on?

Fremantle are not playing to the sum of their parts - obviously - and to listen to Ross's presser tells me it's a submission, and that is not on IMHO.

There's a difference in submission before and after the fact. If pre game Ross was whinging I'd agree with you. However after a game you can reflect on losing approx 800 games of experience and replacing with maybe 15 ganes including two debutabts. Discuss injuries to key players. If Ross came out and said that we were awesome and we're looking for a premiership this season, people would think he's an idiot.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Most frustrating post of how we play is that no one seems to want the ball. Our strategy when we have the ball looks like keep possession and hope that that someone makes a strong lead, but everyone just meanders around at half pace expecting some one else to take the initiative. If we do somehow hit a target up the field we rarely have men running by or a plan to open up the game.

I've seen us play Richmond and the pies live and the difference between them and is night and day. Every run they make is with purpose and you have players like treloer, sidebottom, dusty etc. demanding the ball.

Agree, it hard to kick the ball well, if there no sepsration.

The opposition can always get 5m on us.

 

[Scodog10]

I realise the thrust of my post will likely seem very captain obvious to some, but the analytical strength of today’s football media remains Victorian and winner centric so I was a keen observer of where your list is at based on team selection. As an outsider assessing the Fremantle squad once named I saw this one as a 6-8 goal win to Collingwood. Then whilst reading your pre-match thread I was quite surprised with the level of optimism, but post match I had the light bulb moment.

The difference was clearly Pearce going down. The margin was 5 goals at the time (from memory) and despite the weight of possession Collingwood couldn’t penetrate your defensive structure. It felt like a goal or two from the Dockers could have swung the momentum of the match. Given the strength of the team you brought across to be one injury away from in the contest at that point of the game was quite impressive. All it would have taken was the inclusion of one of the Hill’s and Sandi/ Darcy to create a genuine 50/50 contest. Football media won’t assess it that way, but that’s how it felt live. A few senior players might have made it look a bit better, but like you I don’t think it’s what’s necessary to grow your group.

Between Pearce, Langdon and Darcy you have some real potential without even considering Brayshaw and whoever you go with at draft time. The bounce will be much quicker than some suspect if Lyon commits to the team selection of this week.

FWIW I thought Lyon had a terrible day in the coaches box. The plan was clearly to restrict Collingwood’s access to the ball by slowing the tempo of the game. It didn’t really impact our possession rate and allowed our defense too much time to setup. When you went quick though it caught us on the fly ala the 4th quarter, Mundy’s 2 goals and the first one setup by Langdon’s urgency. Collingwood struggle to defend quicker tempo, but overall it wasn’t the poor result that some will make it out to be, IMO.

 

[aussieviking]

Agreed. This makes no sense, it's almost an excuse. I feel there is no plan. Start the season off hedging bets with oldies on making finals, then revert to "rebuild" when s**t hits fan

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I would believe all sides start the season with their best team and hoping to make finals. When reality shows you cannot make the finals it is time to try new players and experiment.

What is wrong with this approach???? People complain we don't play kids then they bloody well complain louder when we do and get a thrashing . Many of these kids we are trying will not make it as AFL players . Get over whinging ......it will take time

 

[dockerfemme]

I was at the match yesterday, but don’t have much to add.

Positives have to be Apeness, maybe Tucker, and that we more or less split the clearances with our inexperienced rucks. I guess that we held it to ten goals could be seen as a positive.

After the first 10 mins, we fairly much lost all ability to move the ball and found ourselves pegged in the back half, even after a number of kicks moving the ball from side to side. I felt Collingwood treated us with contempt at times, going all Harlem Globetrotters, they were so confident. I found it humiliating.

There is a lot about the coaching I don’t like. Matera was awful last week, but he should be played closer to goal. Nyhuis is physically ready and has good WAFL form, but can’t get a gig. I don’t like throwing the players around late in games. I would much rather see us experiment tactically than with player positions. It is like the coaching team feel they have nothing to learn tactically - I think they have a lot to learn.

Just at the moment I feel another 2 or 3 wins for the season might be our limit.

 

[free at last]

I was quite surprised with how Apeness went,hopefully he can stay on the park and try and play tabs role once sandi returns.He's definitely a competitor.

 

[freo1997]

His ruck work was average, but I thought Jones did a couple of nice things. That mark on a lead and dish off to Mundy was slick and that big pack mark in the goal square followed by a goal was promising. His fellow companion Apeness was pretty good and should be the one to hold his spot when Sandi arrives.

For my boy cam...I was the first to say it weeks ago. Downhill skier, front running seagull has to be dropped. It has to be done and immediately. Think of his confidence that’s getting a beating. Needs a month in the magoos to find some touch. He doesn’t get the ball down to ground , no aerial presence, leads to no where, no goals and looks tired. Has to be the week he goes..oh and gives away free kicks!

 

[Kram]

I said it before McCarthy came here that people that think he is a proper key forward will be disappointed and the knives would come out. Needs Taberner back in there up forward as well or even Apeness.

 

[Taylor]

Some debutant goals was nice.

 

[freo1997]

I said it before McCarthy came here that people that think he is a proper key forward will be disappointed and the knives would come out. Needs Taberner back in there up forward as well or even Apeness.

He had Cox/Jones/Ape through there yesterday. He’s cooked mate honestly. Clive, Croad, Tarrant, Anthony...there’s some big names that were dropped to wafl during there time. Cam is not the focal point I agree, but he’s not indispensable. Needs time in the magoos to get that touch back.. if he has it at all I’m not convinced.

 

[salim malik]

You aren't really a Freo fan

You can bank on that.

 

[Kram]

He had Cox/Jones/Ape through there yesterday. He’s cooked mate honestly. Clive, Croad, Tarrant, Anthony...there’s some big names that were dropped to wafl during there time. Cam is not the focal point I agree, but he’s not indispensable. Needs time in the magoos to get that touch back.. if he has it at all I’m not convinced.

Apeness was rucking mostly?

Cam is not the sort of player there to bring the ball to ground.

I'm not against dropping him probably give it one more week though if Sandi is back and Ape spends time forward.

 

[rgauci]

Kersten was crap when he played on the 2nd tall, because, as we all know, he’s not key position size. In the first half, before A.Pearce went down, he was good.

 

[heehaw]

You do understand that for a team to work in what is a team sport, they need to be intimately familiar with the roles of their fellow team mates and the best way to do that is to play the roles themselves?

I'm not saying throw Giro into the ruck but I am saying that where there is some overlap, absolutely the players should be shuffled around and experimented with.

Yep. agree with you. Just not when they lack AFL experience and the entire side is in disarray and getting beaten by 10 goals every week

 

[dockshark]

Didn't rate Duman's or Kersten's game too much though I seem to be in the minority with Kersten at least, Pearce down obviously hurt a lot and no harm in giving Kersten another game or two until Logue is ready for another try.

The thing with Kerstens game that impressed people I think was his decision making and disposal with ball in hand. We need elite kickers in the backline and he is one of the best kicks in the team. If you ever get to training watch his pinpoint accurate passes. Certainly his one one one body work needs development, but that is to be expected as he transitions and learns the craft. Defending is more complex, and more difficult than forwarding.

We can’t have it all ways, if we want skilled attacking defenders then we can’t judge their performance solely on their one one one matchups.

 

[freo1997]

The thing with Kerstens game that impressed people I think was his decision making and disposal with ball in hand. We need elite kickers in the backline and he is one of the best kicks in the team. If you ever get to training watch his pinpoint accurate passes. Certainly his one one one body work needs development, but that is to be expected as he transitions and learns the craft. Defending is more complex, and more difficult than forwarding.

We can’t have it all ways, if we want skilled attacking defenders then we can’t judge their performance solely on their one one one matchups.

Depending on Adelaide’s Fwd line they may throw him fwd next week to take McCarthys role I hope. Cam will be in the gun this week.

 

[aussieviking]

I was quite surprised with how Apeness went,hopefully he can stay on the park and try and play tabs role once sandi returns.He's definitely a competitor.

I will have to watch game again as I thought Apeness looked really slow and could not ever imagine him as a forward. But I must admit needing quite a few drinks to get thru that game.

I thought Jones looked more mobile and promising.

 

[aussieviking]

His ruck work was average, but I thought Jones did a couple of nice things. That mark on a lead and dish off to Mundy was slick and that big pack mark in the goal square followed by a goal was promising. His fellow companion Apeness was pretty good and should be the one to hold his spot when Sandi arrives.

For my boy cam...I was the first to say it weeks ago. Downhill skier, front running seagull has to be dropped. It has to be done and immediately. Think of his confidence that’s getting a beating. Needs a month in the magoos to find some touch. He doesn’t get the ball down to ground , no aerial presence, leads to no where, no goals and looks tired. Has to be the week he goes..oh and gives away free kicks!

I agree McCarthy needs to regain some confidence with Peel but not sure we have anyone to bring in

 

[Admiral Byng]

Most frustrating post of how we play is that no one seems to want the ball. Our strategy when we have the ball looks like keep possession and hope that that someone makes a strong lead, but everyone just meanders around at half pace expecting some one else to take the initiative. If we do somehow hit a target up the field we rarely have men running by or a plan to open up the game.

I've seen us play Richmond and the pies live and the difference between them and is night and day. Every run they make is with purpose and you have players like treloer, sidebottom, dusty etc. demanding the ball.

This.

Nailed it!

 

[Admiral Byng]

The difference was clearly Pearce going down. The margin was 5 goals at the time (from memory) and despite the weight of possession Collingwood couldn’t penetrate your defensive structure. It felt like a goal or two from the Dockers could have swung the momentum of the match. Given the strength of the team you brought across to be one injury away from in the contest at that point of the game was quite impressive. All it would have taken was the inclusion of one of the Hill’s and Sandi/ Darcy to create a genuine 50/50 contest. Football media won’t assess it that way, but that’s how it felt live. A few senior players might have made it look a bit better, but like you I don’t think it’s what’s necessary to grow your group.

Our problem is that there is no such thing as a couple of quick goals from Freo to get back into the match. We can't score.

We spend long periods of time under pressure in our defensive half and hold up reasonably well, for say 10 or 15 minutes. We don't look like scoring ourselves but we force a bit of a stalemate. Then players get tired and make a couple of skill errors, or a couple of soft frees go against us and suddenly the opposition get a cluster of quick goals.

 

[Square Peg]

This.

Nailed it!

It seems to be almost a unversal thing in team sport that when your team is underperforming, most players play safe and don't demand the ball. No one wants to be the one to screw it up again, better to let the other guy do that.
That is why I have been so impressed with Ryan's games over the past few weeks, the worse we have become the more responsibility he has taken upon himself. I'm loving his work.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Expected the loss and our effort was there especially early.

But our form on the road hasn't been good. I don't like RTB saying the formula worked when we were contending so that's not it. Surely when you have a young group you need to put other things in place. Also, I hope he doesn't have the same thinking in terms of gameplan .

 

[Freomaniac]

I realise the thrust of my post will likely seem very captain obvious to some, but the analytical strength of today’s football media remains Victorian and winner centric so I was a keen observer of where your list is at based on team selection. As an outsider assessing the Fremantle squad once named I saw this one as a 6-8 goal win to Collingwood. Then whilst reading your pre-match thread I was quite surprised with the level of optimism, but post match I had the light bulb moment.

The difference was clearly Pearce going down. The margin was 5 goals at the time (from memory) and despite the weight of possession Collingwood couldn’t penetrate your defensive structure. It felt like a goal or two from the Dockers could have swung the momentum of the match. Given the strength of the team you brought across to be one injury away from in the contest at that point of the game was quite impressive. All it would have taken was the inclusion of one of the Hill’s and Sandi/ Darcy to create a genuine 50/50 contest. Football media won’t assess it that way, but that’s how it felt live. A few senior players might have made it look a bit better, but like you I don’t think it’s what’s necessary to grow your group.

Between Pearce, Langdon and Darcy you have some real potential without even considering Brayshaw and whoever you go with at draft time. The bounce will be much quicker than some suspect if Lyon commits to the team selection of this week.

FWIW I thought Lyon had a terrible day in the coaches box. The plan was clearly to restrict Collingwood’s access to the ball by slowing the tempo of the game. It didn’t really impact our possession rate and allowed our defense too much time to setup. When you went quick though it caught us on the fly ala the 4th quarter, Mundy’s 2 goals and the first one setup by Langdon’s urgency. Collingwood struggle to defend quicker tempo, but overall it wasn’t the poor result that some will make it out to be, IMO.

not a bad post.

But to be honest, I reckon most Freo supporters know where Freo are truly that: Bottom 6 at the moment. In a way, it isn't too bad with the youth we are playing. Freo have a few guys out that are in our best 22 such as Sandi and the Hill boys for a start.

Listening to Matthew Lloyd on footy classified last week, He says Freo wont get out of the bottom 6 without a 50-60 goal KPF. I disagree. We need a 30 goal KPF in Tarberner and another 30 goal kpf/Ruckman in Apeness or Scott Jones or Luke Strnadica.

The defense on a good day can be very good, so can the midifield. Its the forward structure that needs to be fixed. Again, Happy to get 2 KPFs that can kick 30-35 goals a year rather than the one that can kick 60, in case he does his knee.

 

[Cobbler]

This.

Nailed it!

I've been to most home games. It amazes me how many times Mundy was open and they didn't hit him with a pass. In one game he was just 10m clear of his opponent often and the backline never went his way. I made comments of it and it became more noticeable with more games I watched.

I can 100% say Mundy makes numerous leads, often through the middle corridor and he is simply ignored or the backline aren't confident or too slow.

How many times can one do that before saying stuff it?

Mundy is the only example I'm using as it was very noticeable. I think McCarthy is lazy anyway and is often looking for the ball out the back and times his runs horridly. He rarely leads up at the ball carrier and it takes directional passes to lead him away from his opponent. Wilson nailed him with a lovely pass in the halfback line but watch it again and McCarthy doesn't lead. Wilson passes it away to make McCarthy come at the ball.

I'm losing a bit of faith in McCarthy because he just doesn't work but also seems to make poor leading patterns and choices.

Sure he can't bash and crash and body on body defenders, but he can present and find it on the chest. hasn't had over 5 kicks in a game for 5 weeks. That's just downright crap.