Player Watch #10 Sam Naismith

The better bandwagon?


  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

Wolftone

Premiership Player
Feb 1, 2012
3,577
2,938
AFL Club
Sydney
Which part of my equation was incorrect

Naismith on an average afl salary has made almost as much per game

Because he hasn’t played , we still paid him

Are you his dad or something ? No objectivity
You are full of shit. Naismith, whether on salary or not makes no match payments. Oh! Forgot about match payments? It's part of the deal mate. If you don't play they don't pay the total payment. You only get a percentage.

What's more you can't even average $1.2 mil against $350,000. fu** me. Franklin gets nearly $54,0000/game. Naismith on the other hand gets $15,900/game. Neither get match payments for games they do not play. But let's put it into real perspective. For the $10 mil have we won a premiership with Bud yet? No! At least Sam has not promised so much but delivered so little in terms of success. I realise it is not Buddy's fault. In 2014 it was the attitude of the players and Longmire that killed us. But even though we continually rail against the umpiring in 2016 the umpires knew if we did not score well in the first half we very susceptible. We played unfit players and we were not big finishers even with fit players. Again our own fault.

Yes Bud has increased membership incredibly. Like no player before him. It is called the Buddy effect. Fact is he prefers to be called Lance



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robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,305
9,279
AFL Club
Sydney
You are wrong. In2016 he was seen as one of the up and coming rucks of the AFL. He was pivotal in Swans playing 2016 GF.

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How is The King! wrong in pointing out the truth of how many senior AFL games Naismith has played and the fact he is 28 this year? Those two facts are correct whether you like it or not.

You want to write off Sinclair because of his age yet ignore the fact Naismith is only two years younger because you choose to live in the fantasy world of what Naismith did 4 years ago and before missing two seasons of senior AFL football. He might comeback to play at his 2016 level but I think as a fanbase we are expecting way too much from him (and Wolftone on this front you certainly are) and I feel that we won't get the best out of him in the long run vs what is being expected.

Better to expect nothing than to expect the world.
 

robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,305
9,279
AFL Club
Sydney
Really? How many ruckmen actually achieve what Gawn or Grundy have? That is a totally inane statement. You are asking him to be All Australian. ******* hard task. I think he will be a good ruckman. It is not about the total volume of his taps. His taps to advantage play at 75%.
This is a made up stat, as in you've completely made it up.

The last publicly available information (as hitouts to advantage isn't a publicly released stat by the AFL) was from this article last June


HIGHEST/LOWEST HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE
— Highest: Max Gawn (14.7 per game)

— Lowest: Callum Sinclair (5.5 per game)


Max Gawn has been a dominant force in the ruck this season, averaging 42.3 hit-outs per game, and his hit-out to advantage numbers are seeing his teammates get first use out of the middle.

The bearded giant is averaging 14.7 hit-outs to advantage per game, putting the ball in his teammates’ bread basket with 34.8 per cent of his hit-outs.

On the flip side, Swans ruckman Callum Sinclair averages just 5.5 effective hit-outs, despite tallying 27.2 hit-outs per game.

This sees his hit-out rate at a low 20.2 per cent.
You're basically trying to say that Naismith is twice as good as Max Gawn is when it comes to hitouts to advantage. I don't buy it and I doubt anyone else would either. You have just made up a figure to suit your argument.

Sinclair is a shit ruck. You want to keep a bloke who is 30 and can't hit to advantage? You are ******* demented for fu**'s sake. His percentage of advantage taps is 22%
Sinclair has a hit out to advantage of 18%
While, yes Sinclair has a low hit out to advantage on the limited data that is made available, if you're going to quote a stat (which correctly was 20.2%, so wrong on both guesses) to rubbish him and other posters at least don't make up stats.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 13, 2007
7,360
9,030
AFL Club
Sydney
Ha ha geez Kept it together champ

He is an average ruck, competes hard and does more around the ground

Naismith is useless around the ground and an average ruck

Don’t give yourself a heart attack old boy


Lol the 28 gamer almost 30 year old is awesome and I’m ******* demented ha ha ha you are on another planet
I don’t think you should apply the same adjective to their ruckwork if you’re doing a comparison.

I get the concerns on Naismith.I don’t much like how they’re delivered but I’m just old I guess and grew up in a world of manners.

In any event, Naismith is a far superior tap ruckman to Sinclair. That’s unarguable.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
16,565
18,681
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
It’s 2020 ffs so who cares what people thought he could do in 2016 players have been drafted and delisted since

In 2006 Adam Goodes won a Brownlow let’s bring him back
In 2013 Buddy won a flag for Hawks. Let’s bring him back too.
Oh wait.
 

MarkP

That guy
Jun 22, 2012
8,709
11,054
AFL Club
Sydney
I have entered the twilight zone where we are;

1.Comparing shit rucks pay packets to a true dominant KPP with actual marketing power, and in this case to one of the most recognisable Australian athletes in the country

2. Comparing Naismith to Buddy as footballers in a weird way.

3. Suggesting that one shit ruck is totally better than another shit ruck because reasons or something and that will propel us onwards and upwards to a play off game in September

I mean seriously. No rational person should ever, EVER, mention Naismith and Franklin in the same sentence vis a vis footy. That's not Naismiths fault either nor embarrassing for him. I am sure he would get a giggle out of it.
 

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Bloods_sucker

Draftee
Dec 10, 2019
16
29
AFL Club
Sydney
Hope Naismith gets a good run at it. He is our best genuine tap ruckman by far, competes well, and still has upside. Strongly disagree that he is sh*t. It's interesting that the list management havent invested in a genuine young ruckman, and also haven't gone hard to recruit a more mature ruck (AFL standard) from another club. We could've gone for Preuss, for example, but didn't. From all the emotive responses in this thread is it fair to say that we rate the importance of the ruck role at least? From what I can tell the only other genuine ruck prospect we have is Knoll, who is 26. McLean is Ok but probably isn't tall enough and is more ruck support than a permanent ruck prospect.
 

robbieando

Moderator
Oct 9, 2001
16,305
9,279
AFL Club
Sydney
It's interesting that the list management havent invested in a genuine young ruckman, and also haven't gone hard to recruit a more mature ruck (AFL standard) from another club.
The club has invested in young ruckman in Nanka and Cameron only for both the leave after tiring of waiting in line as the 3rd or 4th ruck option and the club in turn received very little in return. So I can see why the have gone down the path of using Knoll and McLean instead and would rather wait on drafting another ruckman for the current time.

Its one thing to recruit mature ruckman from other clubs, but you have to have a spot for them in the senior side ready to go when you approach them to join the club, otherwise they will have no interest in joining the club and you can't do so on the premise that you would trade away one of the current rucks. Once the club settled on Sinclair and Naismith long term by giving them long term contracts (both signed to the end of 2021), no mature ruckman from another club would want to risk being stuck 3rd in line and setting their career back by a couple of years by joining us.

The club with the above taken into account wouldn't be prepared to devote anymore more cap space to the ruck position to be able to attract another senior ruckman, without first moving on Naismith and/or Sinclair so we would be left digging in the bargain bin for a ruckman in the mould of Tom Derickx. With all the back up ruckman out of contract this season and Naismith and Sinclair out of contract the following year I suspect we will target a ruckman via the trade period at the end of this season and more than like via the draft as well. That's the time to invest again, not over the past few years despite the injuries and the struggles the rucks have faced.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
16,565
18,681
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
each to their own, but linking buddy back to naismith seems a massive stretch to me
I think you are right. But it’s also harsh to give Naismith a constant hard time when he can’t get on the ground through no fault of his. In time he may have turned out a fail for us but Apart from off field, so too could Buddy have been if his career fizzles out like it seems to be at the moment with special guest appearances for big milestone & special occasion game only.
 
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scaryness

Moderator
Oct 19, 2008
12,272
15,107
AFL Club
Sydney
For mine Naismith clearly has to be the starting ruck purely because he is the only one who can even compete in the ruck. Have to cut our losses around the ground.

I have never been a fan but we should see if Coxy can get anything out of him we havent seen before. Sinclair was immediately a better player when Cox arrived, we could see something similar with Naismith.
 

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