Autopsy 11 Losses in a row - Booooooo - Rd 7 2021

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westy1

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You could nail down about 5 moments in the game where we lost it
one of them was a poor handball from Crowden on the outer wing, which led to an Aish fumble which in turn put Conca under pressure to fumble, which he did, next minute WC goal
couple of missed handballs and kicks by Darcy and Chapman come to mind as well (don't get me wrong he was outstanding)
As a wise man once said "Its never as good or never as bad as it seems"
onwards and upwards, bring on the Lions
 

Johnny Dalmas

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A few posters are saying that Griffen Logue is looking to be a Bust.....

I disagree. Looking at his development....

2017: Played like 13 games in his debut season. He looked solid but he was playing around the ground.

2018: He was injured all season and played a couple of peel games in the WAFL.

2019: Played 10 games as he was rotating depth in the back line and was injured for half a season.

2020: Played the 1st 5 games in the season and didnt play another game in 2020 due to injury.

2021: didnt play a dockers game until round 5.

So from 2017-2020 he has played 28 games out of 83 games.
Logue will probably end up with a decent 150 game career as a tall defender. So in that sense he wont be considered a bust.

But both Tim English and Shai Bolton were available at his pick. So it won’t end up being a good pick either.
 

Taylor

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To compare Logue to English we would first need to play Logue in another position behind at least two primary focuses of the opposition, since Tim is really an average ruckman and will be until he is stronger but adds his value to the side in being a tertiary target up forward.

So lets play Logue in the midfield. Mundy started on the bench? Let's run our stoppage teams like this:

Team A: Darcy, Serong, Brayshaw, Logue
Team B: Lobb, Fyfe, Mundy, Tucker

With the last of each being the accountable player.
 

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Lach72

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Logue will probably end up with a decent 150 game career as a tall defender. So in that sense he wont be considered a bust.

But both Tim English and Shai Bolton were available at his pick. So it won’t end up being a good pick either.
Logue has missed 3 quarters of his career with injury.

As skinny developing kids in better teams than ours, Bolton and English have played a whole season more AFL. This is not counting the VFL games they've played while Logue has been injured.

Griff tends to get better the more he plays. Before he got injured last year he was actually very very good. And as we have no one else now he plays any way.
He'd also benefit form a stable back line
 

Fat Nyfe

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I wouldn't necessarily state that their personnel is superior (of course their forwards are though), it's more that their players are more experienced.
The teams on the park yesterday were actually not that far apart in terms of experience, someone posted the breakdown earlier in the thread.

We’re falling into the trap of calling ourselves a young team every year, when we actually have a core of experience, another group that have built up plenty of experience by now, and then a revolving door of fringe/younger players.

Out team make-up is no different to teams that aren’t rebuilding.

We’re not that young anymore. We should be performing now, if the rebuild was successful.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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To compare Logue to English we would first need to play Logue in another position behind at least two primary focuses of the opposition, since Tim is really an average ruckman and will be until he is stronger but adds his value to the side in being a tertiary target up forward.

So lets play Logue in the midfield. Mundy started on the bench? Let's run our stoppage teams like this:

Team A: Darcy, Serong, Brayshaw, Logue
Team B: Lobb, Fyfe, Mundy, Tucker

With the last of each being the accountable player.
All I'm saying is that there were guys who will have a better career than Logue available at his pick. Logue will be solid and play for years to come but #8 was an expensive pick for what he brings. I picked on English and Bolton as two obvious local examples.

Shoot, compare Logue to Cox. Cox was a 3rd rounder from the same draft. That makes you think Logue was picked too soon.
 

Taylor

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All I'm saying is that there were guys who will have a better career than Logue available at his pick. Logue will be solid and play for years to come but #8 was an expensive pick for what he brings. I picked on English and Bolton as two obvious local examples.

Shoot, compare Logue to Cox. Cox was a 3rd rounder from the same draft. That makes you think Logue was picked too soon.
Logue is a better key defender than Cox in my opinion, that's why he gets put on the primary opposition forwards.

He won't have played fifty games even if he plays the entire rest of the season, Bolton has played almost twice the number of games - and he hasn't been a superstar since he started.

If they follow the same experience curve then Griff would be hitting the top level next year.

It's not something I worry about. When Alex Pearce says Logue has him covered for athleticism then that's enough, Moose is a beast.

We need our midfield working better. Suddenly Logue will look a gun again.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Logue has missed 3 quarters of his career with injury.

As skinny developing kids in better teams than ours, Bolton and English have played a whole season more AFL. This is not counting the VFL games they've played while Logue has been injured.

Griff tends to get better the more he plays. Before he got injured last year he was actually very very good. And as we have no one else now he plays any way.
He'd also benefit form a stable back line
Do you think in 10 years time Logue will have had a better overall career than English or Bolton? Or Cox or Darcy? Marshall, Berry or Hayward?

I'm sure that yesterday will be Logue's worst game for the year. He'll settle down into his role and play some really good games towards the back end of the season. But he just doesn't project as high as some comparable draftees available at his pick. ( By comparable, I mean junior footballers who were part of the general pre-draft conversation, not mature age outliers like, say, Ryan)
 

Midnite65

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Do you think in 10 years time Logue will have had a better overall career than English or Bolton? Or Cox or Darcy? Marshall, Berry or Hayward?

I'm sure that yesterday will be Logue's worst game for the year. He'll settle down into his role and play some really good games towards the back end of the season. But he just doesn't project as high as some comparable draftees available at his pick. ( By comparable, I mean junior footballers who were part of the general pre-draft conversation, not mature age outliers like, say, Ryan)
The thjng I cant get is he couldnt get within 15 metres of Kennedy on one leg approaching retirement yet Logue is supposed to be this athletic beast.
 

muckypup

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I thought we did okay yesterday, thinking back I think we could have done a bit better in the coaches box and also reckon West Coast were playing for their lives yesterday. Players will reflect and come back better. Loved the courage of Chapman. Think we are doing okay and glad I stayed away from the match day thread yesterday.

PS Oscar Allan - diving on Freddys foot - I'd cite him for that.
 

PeopleEater

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The teams on the park yesterday were actually not that far apart in terms of experience, someone posted the breakdown earlier in the thread.

We’re falling into the trap of calling ourselves a young team every year, when we actually have a core of experience, another group that have built up plenty of experience by now, and then a revolving door of fringe/younger players.

Out team make-up is no different to teams that aren’t rebuilding.

We’re not that young anymore. We should be performing now, if the rebuild was successful.
This. It’s looking more and more likely that we are going to have to refocus building our list with a demographic of under 23’s to have a serious crack at finals in 4 years time. Topping up with older experienced players isn’t going to cut it and would just increase the quality deficit that we would otherwise invest in a younger player at the time.
We need to make a strategic decision now to maximise and retain the quality young players we have currently to move past the mid table mediocrity we are looking destined for at the moment.

Do we bite the bullet and move out some older players? Won’t be a popular statement but I’m struggling to see a way forward with our current list makeup
 

Wilksyy

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Do you think in 10 years time Logue will have had a better overall career than English or Bolton? Or Cox or Darcy? Marshall, Berry or Hayward?
Nope, but I don’t really rate him. Think he’s the type of guy that would get a shiner like Fyfe he would rest his eye for 3 weeks.

I hope I’m wrong though.
 

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Purple Maverick

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I just felt we didn’t have strong leadership and we didn’t have heart. We were soft and going through the motions.

Where is their pride? Where is their heart? Do they even care? On paper we should have won. It was the weakest team they have put out in years.

I don’t get the nice guy attitude that’s crept into footy.The boys need to stand for something more than themselves. We don’t have many heart and soul players. We needed Luke Ryan out there. You can have any system you want, but more importantly you need desire, controlled aggression, and you you must hate to lose. I am certain most supporters are more upset w

They embarrassed themselves yesterday, but more importantly, they embarrassed us supporters. I am sick and tired of going to work the Monday following derbies sad and ashamed.

I wish I knew how we could make the players care.
 

Unique Name

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Calm your melts people, we are on the right track.

Lets toast Chapman for a start. What a competitor.
He was brave to play on.

I just don't think he's shown anything to suggest he's going to be anything above an average footballer. Hopefully I'm completely wrong. He's certainly not a defender and his decision making under pressure is suspect.
 

rgauci

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He was brave to play on.

I just don't think he's shown anything to suggest he's going to be anything above an average footballer. Hopefully I'm completely wrong. He's certainly not a defender and his decision making under pressure is suspect.
nah c’mon, worm burner passes inside 50. Big leap, good closing speed don’t have you excited? He’s only being beaten on strength, speed of the game caught him out once or twice, but generally he’s been excellent.
 

Unique Name

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Dog of a game, one of the worst.

A game where you see the disconnect of supporters and players, with the disparity of how much it means to either party.

Three examples of this,

- Kelly, the player we offered (potentially) more money to play for us, but didn't want to, was allowed contact free stoppages and collected 42 disposals.
- Gaff, the player who caved in the mouth of a teenager, the prized jewel in our 'rebuild', was allowed to run around unchecked and collect 35 disposals.
- Kennedy, laid a heavy (fair) bump on a completely vulnerable 19 year old playing his sixth AFL game, who was playing through a dislocated shoulder... and then Kennedy just jogged back to position, smiling and joking with his team mates at three quarter time.

I see this as a supporter, having an adult meltdown on the couch that is so stark to my normal behaviour that even my dog notices. Brennan Cox jogs back to position to stand on his man and then I'm reminded that it's just a job for them.

Nothing is lonelier than knowing that, the least they could do is pretend it's not.
It was a close game to half time, it was somewhat of a shootout and we were just keeping up.

But the warning signs were there, you could see Gaff, Kelly and Sheed were starting to have too much influence in the midfield even before the floodgates opened. Why JLo didn't make the call at half time to try and slow the game down is beyond me. Lock the game down a bit, put some hard tags on, turn it into a slog.

We were never going to win an open play shootout. What moves did JLo do to try and stop this? Flood the backline, get Darcy to steamroll some campaigner. something.... But all we saw in the box was heading shaking, and face in hands like he was was just a mug spectator.
 

Lach72

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nah c’mon, worm burner passes inside 50. Big leap, good closing speed don’t have you excited? He’s only being beaten on strength, speed of the game caught him out once or twice, but generally he’s been excellent.
yeah I’m not quite sure what he expects. Is he expected to be Corey Enright already?
 

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nah c’mon, worm burner passes inside 50. Big leap, good closing speed don’t have you excited? He’s only being beaten on strength, speed of the game caught him out once or twice, but generally he’s been excellent.
I said this last week so I'm not just piling on the poor kid after a loss. So many of his worm burners end up at knee height for the receiving player they have to stop to mark. Alot of his disposals have been bordering on hospital handball territory.

He looks to have good speed and I'm not worried about strength as that will come. I'm more concerned about his decision making and disposal under pressure.

As I said, hopefully I'm completely wrong and you can all laugh at my stupidity at a later date.
 

arsesmart

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Judging Logue now isn't really
The teams on the park yesterday were actually not that far apart in terms of experience, someone posted the breakdown earlier in the thread.

We’re falling into the trap of calling ourselves a young team every year, when we actually have a core of experience, another group that have built up plenty of experience by now, and then a revolving door of fringe/younger players.

Out team make-up is no different to teams that aren’t rebuilding.

We’re not that young anymore. We should be performing now, if the rebuild was successful.
In AFL terms what seem like small amounts on average can actually make a big difference given the homogenous nature of AFL in terms of age and having limited career lengths.
 

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