Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver - Still a ginger

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
Maybe if we package up him and Brayshaw we could get an early second rounder ... neither of them are playing infallible football at the moment, so clearly they aren't worth persisting with ...
Congratulations on inventing a story line for likes, so you think playing Viney Brayshaw and Oliver together as inside midfielders will be successful going forward?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TheCount

Moderator
Oct 13, 2015
8,816
12,891
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Blackhawks, 76ers
Congratulations on inventing a story line for likes, so you think playing Viney Brayshaw and Oliver together as inside midfielders will be successful going forward?
Haha, what the hell? A story line for likes? And here I thought it was merely a joke poking fun at some of the over reactions going on.

Well no, because Harmes is first picked in there, but given none of them are playing particularly well right now, they certainly can't at the moment, but I'm not prepared to get rid of the lot of them because they haven't started the season as well as they finished the last one.
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
Haha, what the hell? A story line for likes? And here I thought it was merely a joke poking fun at some of the over reactions going on.

Well no, because Harmes is first picked in there, but given none of them are playing particularly well right now, they certainly can't at the moment, but I'm not prepared to get rid of the lot of them because they haven't started the season as well as they finished the last one.
What over reactions?
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
I read someone say they'd be happy to trade Brayshaw because his defensive running has been poor the other day ... so those sorts of overreactions
That's one guy.
Last year our superstar inside mids produced the 2nd best contested ball diff of all time and the 3rd most inside 50s of all time. Its very likely we can't reproduce those numbers again yet we didn't even finish top 4 in the home and away.

You know what's an overreaction? Stats saying definitively Oliver is the worst kick in the AFL and yet people still saying 'he's a beautiful kick'
Or saying he's killing it when his possessions are rushed all the time.

Why do people think we are playing so badly atm? It's because we waste the most inside 50s of any side ever recorded and with an average of 100 disposals a game our chief culprits are Oliver Viney and Brayshaw.
 

KickLongTackleHard

Club Legend
May 2, 2008
2,523
1,353
Perth
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
That's one guy.
Last year our superstar inside mids produced the 2nd best contested ball diff of all time and the 3rd most inside 50s of all time. Its very likely we can't reproduce those numbers again yet we didn't even finish top 4 in the home and away.

You know what's an overreaction? Stats saying definitively Oliver is the worst kick in the AFL and yet people still saying 'he's a beautiful kick'
Or saying he's killing it when his possessions are rushed all the time.

Why do people think we are playing so badly atm? It's because we waste the most inside 50s of any side ever recorded and with an average of 100 disposals a game our chief culprits are Oliver Viney and Brayshaw.
Our game plan doesn’t help. There is often no space to lead in to with the congestion we create, which leaves all the space behind the last line of defence open for slingshot counter attack which teams score from efficiently.

There are probably multiple reasons why it’s not working as effective as last year.
 

saj_21

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2007
7,683
4,675
unlisted
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Warney's IPL team!
There is a difference between being a bad kick and a bad decision maker. Oliver suffers more form bad decisions than being technically a bad kick. He always seems to kick long.

Our biggest issue along with poor decision making/kicking inside 50 is ground ball gets inside 50/forward pressure. Not only do we not win the disputed ball inside 50, we don’t apply enough pressure if the opposition has possession. It allows the opposition to very easily and cleanly transition the ball end to end. Couple with some poor two way running/defending from the mids and our backs don’t stand a chance.
 

Proper Gander

Owl whisperer and secret agent
Feb 15, 2015
16,305
26,795
Port Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Mt Buller Demons
That's one guy.
Last year our superstar inside mids produced the 2nd best contested ball diff of all time and the 3rd most inside 50s of all time. Its very likely we can't reproduce those numbers again yet we didn't even finish top 4 in the home and away.

You know what's an overreaction? Stats saying definitively Oliver is the worst kick in the AFL and yet people still saying 'he's a beautiful kick'
Or saying he's killing it when his possessions are rushed all the time.

Why do people think we are playing so badly atm? It's because we waste the most inside 50s of any side ever recorded and with an average of 100 disposals a game our chief culprits are Oliver Viney and Brayshaw.
FFS settle down.

We have options with this midfield, the best of which you have already pointed out.
 

Proper Gander

Owl whisperer and secret agent
Feb 15, 2015
16,305
26,795
Port Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Mt Buller Demons
I don't think we have options at all, we have one option which is win it contested style.
We have theoretical options ala Richmond model - bombing it forward at random could theoretically work if we had a Richmond style small forward crew that will swarm over the ball regardless of the quality of delivery. As you have pointed out, we don’t.

It’s like there is a disconnect between our main coaches, our recruitment and our ‘strategists’ (whatever that is when it’s at home).

We could survive the arse style delivery from our mids if only our forwards were the type to swarm on every ball into the 50 to prevent the turnover and create a forward pressure advantage. Unfortunately we don’t have those players.

Or we could have mids that focus on quality entries to a leading forward finding space. We don’t have that either because the mids aren’t moving the ball forward with any thought or direction, but even if they were fu** knows who they direct it to since our forwards are basically not providing any good leads whatsoever. So neither the mids or the forwards get a gold star on this one.

Before trading the whole lot of them, which I admit is a tempting option, I would like to know why the coaching crew haven’t addressed either.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
We have theoretical options ala Richmond model - bombing it forward ar random could theoretically work if we had a Richmond style small forward crew that will swarm over the ball regardless of the quality of delivery. As you have pointed out, we don’t.

It’s like there is a disconnect between our main coaches, our recruitment and our ‘strategists’ (whatever that is when it’s at home).

We could survive the arse style delivery from our mids if only our forwards were the type to swarm on every ball into the 50 to prevent the turnover and create a forward pressure advantage. Unfortunately we don’t have those players.

Or we could have mids that focus on quality entries to a leading forward finding space. We don’t have that either because the mids aren’t moving the ball forward with any thought or direction, but even if they were **** knows who they direct it to since our forwards are basically not providing any good leads whatsoever. So neither the mids or the forwards get a gold star on this one.

Before trading the whole lot of them, which I admit is a tempting option, I would like to know why the coaching crew haven’t addressed either.
Fair enough agree with that
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
Would like to know what he thinks of his efforts this season.

Very disappointing for mine, surgeries and excuses aside he lost all his composure at AFL level and he's too good and too important for us for him not to fix it.

Needs to ask himself he wants to be the leader for taking our midfield forward or if he wants to have another year of seemingly wanting to pass the pressure onto someone else immediately.
 

schmuttt

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 12, 2014
20,228
30,932
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
Would like to know what he thinks of his efforts this season.

Very disappointing for mine, surgeries and excuses aside he lost all his composure at AFL level and he's too good and too important for us for him not to fix it.

Needs to ask himself he wants to be the leader for taking our midfield forward or if he wants to have another year of seemingly wanting to pass the pressure onto someone else immediately.
Reckon he is over coached, guy has gone from the best handballer in the game to a butcher by both hand and foot. For an inside beast he is actually pretty quick, needs to back his pace and run away from congestion instead of blindly hacking it because he thinks he is about to get tackled. He has all the tools but confidence at rock bottom atm.
 

blitznu

Club Legend
Jan 6, 2013
2,201
2,391
AFL Club
Melbourne
Reckon its the flat footed campaigners around him that makes his game look worse. He averages 1 more kick a game than last year and everything else is near on identical including disposal efficiency. I was hating on him earlier this year but then started watching the players around him he doesnt have good enough options to go to hopefully we pick up a few players who are smart enough to know that when oliver is about to get it be on the move outside of 5 ******* metres and he'll hit you which then opens up more space for him to work in which allows him more options whether to burst out himself or kick to a player spreading from the contest 20m away instead of 7/8/9/10 players within a 5m circle ffs making it easy for opposition to blanket us. Thats my take anyway he isnt helped by his team mates at all you put him in any other midfield and he'd still look like a jet. Cant wait to pick up some runners and play them out of defense cause we still want to play viney and brayshaw in the midfield
 

Demon 16

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 25, 2009
10,214
5,992
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Would like to know what he thinks of his efforts this season.

Very disappointing for mine, surgeries and excuses aside he lost all his composure at AFL level and he's too good and too important for us for him not to fix it.

Needs to ask himself he wants to be the leader for taking our midfield forward or if he wants to have another year of seemingly wanting to pass the pressure onto someone else immediately.
I love him but totally agree with him passing on the pressure.

He’s so obsessed with using a quick fire handball that I reckon he is one of the reasons we have so many rushed kicks into the forward line.
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,002
2,410
AFL Club
Melbourne
Would like to know what he thinks of his efforts this season.

Very disappointing for mine, surgeries and excuses aside he lost all his composure at AFL level and he's too good and too important for us for him not to fix it.

Needs to ask himself he wants to be the leader for taking our midfield forward or if he wants to have another year of seemingly wanting to pass the pressure onto someone else immediately.
He was very rushed in his handballing this season. Also, as blitznu pointed out, this was compounded by the lack of spread around him to find a valid target. His kicking is an issue that needs to be sorted out.

Our whole setup was worked out massively this year.
 

mrmonkey

Premiership Player
Dec 3, 2010
3,325
3,190
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Reckon its the flat footed campaigners around him that makes his game look worse. He averages 1 more kick a game than last year and everything else is near on identical including disposal efficiency. I was hating on him earlier this year but then started watching the players around him he doesnt have good enough options to go to hopefully we pick up a few players who are smart enough to know that when oliver is about to get it be on the move outside of 5 ******* metres and he'll hit you which then opens up more space for him to work in which allows him more options whether to burst out himself or kick to a player spreading from the contest 20m away instead of 7/8/9/10 players within a 5m circle ffs making it easy for opposition to blanket us. Thats my take anyway he isnt helped by his team mates at all you put him in any other midfield and he'd still look like a jet. Cant wait to pick up some runners and play them out of defense cause we still want to play viney and brayshaw in the midfield
Pretty much what Gerard Healy mentioned yesterday. Melbourne need to get the tape measure out this preseason because all we do is handball into trouble. Oliver is a ball winner but what's the point of getting it if the free player is a metre away and the next is a metre away constantly passing into trouble. I'm going to switch codes look at rugby league how would a team go huddled around the ball making 500cm passes they would be easily stopped and then once the opposition is in possession they throw 3 metre passes and stretching the opposition leaving gaps im defense to score freely. You would think it's a simple fix.
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
35,161
43,155
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
Reckon its the flat footed campaigners around him that makes his game look worse. He averages 1 more kick a game than last year and everything else is near on identical including disposal efficiency. I was hating on him earlier this year but then started watching the players around him he doesnt have good enough options to go to hopefully we pick up a few players who are smart enough to know that when oliver is about to get it be on the move outside of 5 ******* metres and he'll hit you which then opens up more space for him to work in which allows him more options whether to burst out himself or kick to a player spreading from the contest 20m away instead of 7/8/9/10 players within a 5m circle ffs making it easy for opposition to blanket us. Thats my take anyway he isnt helped by his team mates at all you put him in any other midfield and he'd still look like a jet. Cant wait to pick up some runners and play them out of defense cause we still want to play viney and brayshaw in the midfield
There have been multiple occasions in almost every game though he's jumped up to receive a tap from Gawn, then before his feet have even hit the ground he's dished off a handball often to a still recovering his balance Max Gawn.

I agree it's a mix of problems but he needs to take more responsibility on himself
 

A11dAtP0w3R

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 18, 2013
24,071
31,333
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Carolina Panthers, Steve Smith
2018 ALL AUSTRALIAN/2019 s**tKICKER

Speaking of s**t Kicking....Seriously tho, the bloke can't kick for s**t, this insistence on trying to use him as pinching hitting/resting forward must stop.
 

schmuttt

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 12, 2014
20,228
30,932
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
2018 ALL AUSTRALIAN/2019 s**tKICKER

Speaking of s**t Kicking....Seriously tho, the bloke can't kick for s**t, this insistence on trying to use him as pinching hitting/resting forward must stop.
Imo technically he isn’t a bad kick but has zero confidence and most of his passes are just hacks forward like Brayshaw.
 

Top Bottom