Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver - Still a ginger

Cannon82

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30 touches a game isn't an impressive stat anymore mate especially when 22 of them are handballs that go 1m to a bloke that gets tackled. Petracca has done more that Oliver this year from 10 less disposals per game I'd guess.

Least of our worries is one way too look at it, but if he regresses back to a good player and doesn't become a star then we don't progress. It's all well and good to kick the bottom 5 players on the list as the reason we are s**t but facts are your best players need to play well for you to be good. There's more of a need for Oliver Tmac May Gawn Salem Viney etc to play well next year than ANB Stretch Hannan Hunt etc
Feel like Clarence is getting s**t-canned because his best is fantastic and he hasn't been close to it this year (but has still been decent). Petracca has relatively low expectations because he's never put together a consistent season and still hasn't been particularly good.

Comparison for this year. The only areas Petracca comprehensively has Oliver beaten is in goals, contested marks and marks inside 50 (obviously). Oliver doesn't deserve the bricking he's getting at the moment. There are 30+ other names on the list who should be copping s**t before him.
 

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Topkent

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You're not wrong that our best players need to improve, but in particular I'd say Tmac, Viney, Brayshaw, May just to name a few need much more of a kick up the arse than Oliver. Have you seen the best teams play footy, a lot of them create space from a chain of quick Oliver-esque hand balls that initially are in congestion but then find a way on the outside to a speedy runner (which we definitely lack). Our problem is that first handball that Oliver dishes off goes to a bloke who cannot make a decision immediately and hence gets tackled. To use the West Coast example again, Oliver would dish off a quick handball to a flat footed Shuey who then has the skill to fire off a handball on the outside to Yeo. We have players slower than treacle.
Last year yeah, this year Oliver's been responsible for putting people under pressure more than any of our other players by hand
 

Topkent

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Feel like Clarence is getting s**t-canned because his best is fantastic and he hasn't been close to it this year (but has still been decent). Petracca has relatively low expectations because he's never put together a consistent season and still hasn't been particularly good.

Comparison for this year. The only areas Petracca comprehensively has Oliver beaten is in goals, contested marks and marks inside 50 (obviously). Oliver doesn't deserve the bricking he's getting at the moment. There are 30+ other names on the list who should be copping s**t before him.
Feel like Clarence is getting s**t-canned because his best is fantastic and he hasn't been close to it this year (but has still been decent). Petracca has relatively low expectations because he's never put together a consistent season and still hasn't been particularly good.

Comparison for this year. The only areas Petracca comprehensively has Oliver beaten is in goals, contested marks and marks inside 50 (obviously). Oliver doesn't deserve the bricking he's getting at the moment. There are 30+ other names on the list who should be copping s**t before him.
They average close to 10 kicks each with Oliver slightly ahead, Petraccas kicks are more dangerous 9 out of 10 times this year and of the extra 10 handballs a game Oliver gets this year the majority of those have been rubbish backwards floated handballs with no idea of progressing the ball in mind.

I don't really care if it's harsh after last year because that's how far he's fallen this year and we can't afford for him to become a classic MFC player who lives off one season for his career
 

Pee Tear Griffin

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They average close to 10 kicks each with Oliver slightly ahead, Petraccas kicks are more dangerous 9 out of 10 times this year and of the extra 10 handballs a game Oliver gets this year the majority of those have been rubbish backwards floated handballs with no idea of progressing the ball in mind.

I don't really care if it's harsh after last year because that's how far he's fallen this year and we can't afford for him to become a classic MFC player who lives off one season for his career
Have no fear Kenty, he'll be right. Not too many players make the All Australian team at 21. I'm supremely confident he'll continue to improve and become a top 5-10 mid in the game. He's got the competitive drive for it. And really, that's all we could ask for. Putting a bit too much on the kid if we're expecting him to become Fyfe or Martin.
 

Topkent

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Have no fear Kenty, he'll be right. Not too many players make the All Australian team at 21. I'm supremely confident he'll continue to improve and become a top 5-10 mid in the game. He's got the competitive drive for it. And really, that's all we could ask for. Putting a bit too much on the kid if we're expecting him to become Fyfe or Martin.
So your confident he will become a top 5 mid but we shouldn't expect him to become Martin or Fyfe?

I want him to become the best mid in the league not just a very good one. Because if he and we are happy with him playing at the level of a Priddis/Mitchell/Crouch/Cunnington etc then so be it but it doesn't bode well for our premiership aspirations
 

Pee Tear Griffin

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So your confident he will become a top 5 mid but we shouldn't expect him to become Martin or Fyfe?

I want him to become the best mid in the league not just a very good one. Because if he and we are happy with him playing at the level of a Priddis/Mitchell/Crouch/Cunnington etc then so be it but it doesn't bode well for our premiership aspirations
Of course I'd love him to become the best mid in the league. But it's not easy to become that clear cut best. There are a lot of really good mids in the top 10 discussion that are vital to their teams and their teams premiership aspirations. Most of those guys have a bit more help than Oliver does. We won't win it all anyway, even if Oliver becomes the best in the game, unless ALL the cattle around him lift, and lift significantly. We still have too much deadwood that aren't AFL standard imo. I'm not sold on Goodwin as a coach either.

EDIT: Do you see Freo winning the flag any time soon, given Fyfe's dominance?
 

Cannon82

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They average close to 10 kicks each with Oliver slightly ahead, Petraccas kicks are more dangerous 9 out of 10 times this year and of the extra 10 handballs a game Oliver gets this year the majority of those have been rubbish backwards floated handballs with no idea of progressing the ball in mind.

I don't really care if it's harsh after last year because that's how far he's fallen this year and we can't afford for him to become a classic MFC player who lives off one season for his career
Petracca's kicks are hardly more dangerous unless you count getting the ball dinked at you from 3 metres away. People are being very forgiving towards Petracca - he has done some good things but also served up total dross at times. He's had a few good games this year but has hardly been brilliant. You talk about Oliver not being a Fyfe or Martin, yet that's exactly what Petracca is supposed to be and he's a year older and a lot further from that level than Oliver is.
 

Topkent

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Petracca's kicks are hardly more dangerous unless you count getting the ball dinked at you from 3 metres away. People are being very forgiving towards Petracca - he has done some good things but also served up total dross at times. He's had a few good games this year but has hardly been brilliant. You talk about Oliver not being a Fyfe or Martin, yet that's exactly what Petracca is supposed to be and he's a year older and a lot further from that level than Oliver is.
I think you'll find there's a s**tload of criticism in the Petracca thread of him mate up until the last 10 weeks of the year or so the rest is abuse.

Do you think he's regressed this year ?
 

Topkent

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Of course I'd love him to become the best mid in the league. But it's not easy to become that clear cut best. There are a lot of really good mids in the top 10 discussion that are vital to their teams and their teams premiership aspirations. Most of those guys have a bit more help than Oliver does. We won't win it all anyway, even if Oliver becomes the best in the game, unless ALL the cattle around him lift, and lift significantly. We still have too much deadwood that aren't AFL standard imo. I'm not sold on Goodwin as a coach either.

EDIT: Do you see Freo winning the flag any time soon, given Fyfe's dominance?
Nah because one player doesn't make that much of a difference. But that doesn't mean I'm ok with Oliver being a very good player only for the rest of his career.
 

Cannon82

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I think you'll find there's a s**tload of criticism in the Petracca thread of him mate up until the last 10 weeks of the year or so the rest is abuse.

Do you think he's regressed this year ?
Oliver? Yes. No one is arguing he hasn't, but he's copping a lot of s**t despite still being in our top 5 players for the year.
 

Topkent

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Oliver? Yes. No one is arguing he hasn't, but he's copping a lot of s**t despite still being in our top 5 players for the year.
Yeah because it's the Clayton Oliver thread and being a top 5 player for us isn't an achievement this year. Outside of Gawn and maybe Salem and Harmes everyone else is less of a player this year.

To fill that top 5 you are talking about Hore? Trac? Frost?
I don't even know that's how bleak it is.
 

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Cannon82

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Yeah because it's the Clayton Oliver thread and being a top 5 player for us isn't an achievement this year. Outside of Gawn and maybe Salem and Harmes everyone else is less of a player this year.

To fill that top 5 you are talking about Hore? Trac? Frost?
I don't even know that's how bleak it is.
Gawn, Salem, Oliver... maybe Harmes? He's probably top 3 then. Harmes has been pretty meh as well. There's a fair bit of daylight after the podium.

Its not Oliver's fault that the rest of the team are so s**t they can't do better than him in autopilot.
 

markm106

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Let’s face it we have a generational player on our hands. He’s been a little off this year. But he’s still found plenty of contested footy and has been one of our best. He’s been a fraction off the pace which is massive at AFL level. Also hasn’t had the support around him as others haven’t been in form either. Double shoulder reconstruction doesn’t help. Also not uncommon for a player to have a down year in the first few years. Mind you his down year has been pretty good.
One thing we know is he’s a hard worker so hopefully if he’s in full training from day one of pre season he’ll drive standards.
 

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