Senior 13. Liam Stocker

Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Posts
2,216
Likes
4,365
Location
Mornington peninsula
AFL Club
Carlton
This is exactly where we need to be as a club. Assessing our draftees strengths and weaknesses then developing them in the VFL.

Liam is obviously a contested ball beast with a ‘see ball, get ball’ mentality. Needs to improve his endurance, two way running and defensive mindset.

For the first time in a long time the clubs not bowing to public/media pressure and are transparent in their plans.

So glad we got the extra year to develop him..
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

LanceRomance

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Posts
16,743
Likes
22,038
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
This apprenticeship is an absolutely essential part of Stocker’s development.

The article touches on it briefly, but the biggest question marks I heard were on his endurance, defensive running and mental toughness/resilience. You might argue that all of these are at least somewhat interwoven.

He simply must learn to think more accountably, and Bolts was actually quite explicit in calling this out - how different junior footy is in this regard.

Whether he makes it or not, he’s in an ideal learning environment to develop with Bolts & Russell steering the ship. It now all comes down to how he embraces a growth mindset and how hungry he is to improve... Fingers crossed. He could - COULD - be a weapon if he gets these areas right.
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
 

skadoosh

Club Legend
Joined
May 26, 2011
Posts
1,318
Likes
3,046
AFL Club
Carlton
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
And you expect that top 5 pick to be better developed than Stocker with 1 year of VFL/AFL coaching and games? Remember, Walsh is the outlier in terms of first year draftee productivity, not the rule.

We're so used to seeing all our young draftees playing AFL in their first year, however this was only with an aim to fast track and because this was the best path.
 

Wily trout

Team Captain
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Posts
433
Likes
1,301
AFL Club
Carlton
Not exactly sure where he slots in right now anyway, considering we still want to make room for LOB and Kennedy. So he may as well serve an apprenticeship in the VFL until absolutely ready. As someone rightly said, we are in a new phase where we can can actually develop our kids in the reserves rather than thrown into the deep end asap. I am pretty confident his story will be a successful one.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Posts
49,895
Likes
64,050
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
And you expect that top 5 pick to be better developed than Stocker with 1 year of VFL/AFL coaching and games? Remember, Walsh is the outlier in terms of first year draftee productivity, not the rule.

We're so used to seeing all our young draftees playing AFL in their first year, however this was only with an aim to fast track and because this was the best path.
Every 2017 draftee other than LDU played a minimum of 10 games last year.
One even played 26 having been in the Grand Final.....and he was the one with the health issues. :)

It's going to be inevitable that Stocker and the CFC will have some media attention trained on it in regards to this pick. We best get used to it.
No harm dome though if we develop what we saw and if we don't, we can't blame the media for rubbing our faces in it.
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Posts
6,186
Likes
16,454
AFL Club
Carlton
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
Why?

He's a mid with a very attacking mindset and skillset - and given we now have depth the club is taking the opportunity to develop his defensive game in his first season at the club. The decision itself is a good one - the question is how he'll respond to the challenge.
 

TheRedPill

All Australian
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Posts
916
Likes
2,344
Location
here
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
A football team
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
I wouldn’t worry too much. Every draftee who isn’t Sam Walsh has areas of improvement. We are just more aware of Stocker’s because of 1) he plays for Carlton 2) the trade and perhaps 3) his enormous upside if he can get them right.

Eventually, if we are going to challenge for a flag, we will need to have the playing culture and off-field structures & processes to develop unrefined talent - whether it’s a Morrish Medallist who went in the first round, or a speculative rookie pick.

At this stage, I am actually more interested in/concerned about whether the likes of Cuningham, Weitering, McKay and SPS can take the next step after 2-3 years in the system.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
13,777
Likes
30,164
Location
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
 

Robbo's my hero

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
10,177
Likes
16,080
Location
Sunbury
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Sunderland,Pelicans, LA Kings
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
Playing in the backline has real value. You need to work on your ability to beat your opponent, you need to think about creating opportunities. It’s the perfect combo for a developing mid.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Posts
49,895
Likes
64,050
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
Not concerned at all.
We can't stick every mid we have into the midfield from the get-go.

As good a place to start as any and it's not as if he won't see midfield minutes in the NB's either.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kernafides

Team Captain
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Posts
443
Likes
592
Location
Old Social Club
AFL Club
Carlton
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
9,425
Likes
10,220
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
Callum Mills spent 3 (2 and a bit really) years playing as a back pocket after being drafted as the first midfielder in 2015, and is only now moving into a permanent midfield role.

With Simmo only a few years away from retirement, and Daisy not too far off either we are going to need another running defender developing. With some uncertainty surrounding Doc, and Williamson, it sounds like a reasonable step to get Stocker up to speed as a half-back. He could suit a myriad of roles, but he’s a nice kick, quick and courageous, so it could suit him.

We’ve currently got plenty of coverage for inside mids.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
9,425
Likes
10,220
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
Did we curb Simmo by playing him in defence?

Good players can play a variety of roles, and the main characteristics of the roles are transferable anyway.
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Posts
18,651
Likes
47,350
AFL Club
Carlton
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
I think it's smart. Endurance is his issue and that is being fixed. Even then I believe he is still not a bad runner. His hardness and skills aren't an issue. There is no pressure on him. If he improves and gets 10 games this year that would be awesome.

Young players develop at different speeds. It's at around the 4 year mark you can really assess. I think it will take him a season and then he will really step up. Reminds me a bit of Clayton Oliver. Solid first year and then trained hard, slimmed down and went to a whole new level. That's how I see Stocker.

I still believe in a year or two, maybe three, he will venture into the midfield
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Posts
6,186
Likes
16,454
AFL Club
Carlton
So we recruited Stocker to become a defender you reckon??? Fair enough
Not sure where that came from...

You questioned the comment about Simmo being moved to defence, I pointed you towards some pretty clear evidence he was drafted as a winger, played midfield and half forward, before eventually settling down back.



Do I think we recruited Stocker as a defender? No. But I don't see any issue with playing him off half back in the reserves for a bit to give him some experience in how a team defence is structured. He may excel there and find a niche for himself, but more likely he gets exposed a little defensively, learns to be more accountable, and after improving that side of his game gets moved into a midfield role.

Might also have something to do with his lower endurance base, the club may feel it better for his development to start down back while they build his fitness up over the course of the year.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Posts
1,720
Likes
1,438
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
Hodge
 

ParapMarkets

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Posts
3,264
Likes
5,882
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
Every club does this........ Every club.
Ultimately there are only 3 midfielders plus 2 wings starting at any one time.
Every club does this, every club, every club. The amount of players that started in the back line is enormous, it's actually far less common for players to start straight in the middle. Luke Hodge, Dyson Heppell, Dangerfield........ Hardly any players actually start playing as pure midfielders. If it turns out that his one and only position is midfield and that he is not versatile at all then so be it, but I just don't see how this will have a negative affect on his development, we need versatile players since there are only 3 centre square mids at any one time. Cripps, Dow, SPS, O'Brien, Fisher, Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield, Kennedy, the math's doesn't add up for all of these players to be pure midfielders only.
Did I mention that every club does this?
 
Top Bottom