Senior 13. Liam Stocker

therubbernub

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You should've quoted the part where he says that once he has the tank he should play midfield.
Which he wont have this year. My point is that we should not "protect" him in the NB's and waste this year. We have an opportunity to really assess his strengths and weaknesses which will allow us to make decisions about his future role in the team
 

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Alphonse_

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Is it too much to ask that we can judge the kid's merits on his strengths and flaws, rather than constantly become the trade of picks with Adelaide, which wasn't his fault (or what he asked)

I sometime half believe critical supporter negativity destroyed Jordan Russell's chances of becoming the player he had the potential he should have been. Please don't give Stocker the same scapegoat treatment friends
 

sr36

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I’m not underrating his dash. He’s just not quick. By any stretch of the imagination. Evasive, yes. Creates space, yes. But I don’t have to tell you being a Collingwood supporter and watching Pendlebury play that speed and evasiveness are not necessarily correlated.

In terms of your comment on his decision making and execution in congestion, again, it’s just so wrong that I sort of don’t know where to begin.
He’d be one of, if not our best users in traffic. Highly creative, fast thinker, never particularly rushed and is able to exectute in ways that no one else on our list can. And now that I’ve been talking about him and thinking about it more, he actually plays like a short version of Pendlebury. Burgoyne is another player he gets constantly compared to and is also very apt.

He didn’t have a great game last weekend. And you’ve clearly watched another game he hasn’t performed to his usual standards. That’s all I can put it down to.
Treloar may be a bad comparison, but Pendlebury - seriously.
 

blue_trinity

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Treloar may be a bad comparison, but Pendlebury - seriously.
I don’t want to derail the thread any further. But in short, yes. In terms of movement in traffic and vision, very similar. SPS more manic in his pressure/tackling, Pendlebury uses his size to advantage more. But imo they both share very similar attributes.
 

sr36

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I don’t want to derail the thread any further. But in short, yes. In terms of movement in traffic and vision, very similar. SPS more manic in his pressure/tackling, Pendlebury uses his size to advantage more. But imo they both share very similar attributes.
I'm probably wrong, but he looks to have a seriously quick first rew steps to me even if his top speed is mediocre.
But youre right back to the topic Stocker looks really likely and i hope he proves all those armchair draft experts wrong.
 

Blutopia

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Fair enough. I do think he's a great prospect.

I do think you're underrating his dash. He creates space around congestion through speed in a very similar way to Treloar and in a way that Sidey just can't. Dual-footedness is great if both of your feet are really good. I'm not convinced on that yet - this wasn't the first time I thought he was a bit wasteful with the footy. Only young so it's expected. I also think that like Treloar and unlike Sidey he makes a fair few disposal decision errors in congestion whilst trying to be aggressive and just keep the ball moving, without paying enough attention to where he's moving it to - basically doesn't always read the situation and plays a bit of russian roullette with blind handballs in bad spots when the better option is to hold it in and draw a stoppage. Hopefully both Treloar and your boy can improve in this regard.
The only reason he can seem wasteful is because he tends to take on passes that 99% of players wouldn’t attempt. When they come off we generally end up with a shot on goal but he does miss at times too. Only his 3rd year so he will get better at picking his moments of when to go for those passes.
 

therubbernub

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The only reason he can seem wasteful is because he tends to take on passes that 99% of players wouldn’t attempt. When they come off we generally end up with a shot on goal but he does miss at times too. Only his 3rd year so he will get better at picking his moments of when to go for those passes.
Que?
 

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Blutopia

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I thought it was Dow!
Sky horse had mentioned the 3 votes he got against their mob in his 1st year so I thought the convo was about SPS but I re-read some and still not sure... But the points I made were about SPS and I think his skills are sublime and will get better.
But anyway, about this Stocker kid - I think he is ultra impressive so far. He made some blunders in first couple of games but who didn’t. Got a sneaking suspicion in years to come Crows will be wishing they kept pick 19 and picked him!
 

Blue__Balls

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The conversation makes much more sense if you assume both parties are talking about different players without realising it.

Dow = Treloar comparison.
SPS = Pendlebury comparison.

Stocker = Sidebum comparison?

Lines up OK with me, and given how many experts have been frothing over Collingwood's midfield in recent times, it bodes well for us. Doesn't even factor in Cripps, Fisher, Walsh etc.

Really like what Stocker brings to the table. It's nice to see the club building a midfield with a variety of skill sets. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and we're assembling a diverse group of talented players who should complement each other beautifully. Gonna be nice when opposition clubs are scratching their heads about how they should match up on us, rather than the reverse.
 

beaglebombs

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I may have jumped the gun with this guy and SOS may be a genius.....
He's an arrogant prk that most despise but we need a player or two like that regrdless.
I hope he shows his worth and keeps having a crack, he might just become an important cog!
 

__Bobcat__

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I may have jumped the gun with this guy and SOS may be a genius.....
He's an arrogant prk that most despise but we need a player or two like that regrdless.
I hope he shows his worth and keeps having a crack, he might just become an important cog!
he maybe a shy, bloke whom, isn't sure how to handle being a big cog?
i na BLUES WHEEL...
 

footyfan78

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This guy cannot be allowed to be wasted down back in his second year. Been good learning experience this year but next year release properly back to midfield group for further development. Really like how I saw him go about things in his few games before injury.
 

gbatman

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I think he'll play a bit of midfield but probably go on a similar development path to someone like Docherty who started down back and played a bit of midfield and if not for knee injuries would probably be playing a lot of midfield by now.

Looks a promising player, strong, skills look good, seems to have a physical side to his game but he has appeared out of gas at times which is what we have all heard is lacking in his game.

Played well in the seconds and has played a few senior games and some of them have been alright so so far he's tracking fine. Injury is annoying but he'll be back soon which is good.

I wouldn't mind seeing how he goes playing a bit up forward as well. Give him a run in a high half forward role or forward running mid and see what happens. Can definitely see why he'd be used down back though seeing as he has a strong body, decent disposal and hasn't the tank to play midfield at this stage and needs to do the running to build that.
 

Jimmae

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I think he'll play a bit of midfield but probably go on a similar development path to someone like Docherty who started down back and played a bit of midfield and if not for knee injuries would probably be playing a lot of midfield by now.
Cannot disagree more strongly in your assessment of Docherty. Has never possessed the acceleration off the mark and agility required for a midfield role.

He'd need to develop some serious game sense in stoppages in order to survive around the midfield. Can pinch hit on the wing, otherwise looks at home in defence.
 

gbatman

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Cannot disagree more strongly in your assessment of Docherty. Has never possessed the acceleration off the mark and agility required for a midfield role.

He'd need to develop some serious game sense in stoppages in order to survive around the midfield. Can pinch hit on the wing, otherwise looks at home in defence.
Docherty was used as a change midfielder at times in 2017 and he played well in that role. His acceleration and agility is better than some of the players we are playing in the midfield. I have no doubt that we were gearing him up to play half back and a little midfield with the potential to play mostly midfield if things worked out that way.

I think if Docherty was fit and we were getting plenty our of Thomas, Simpson, Newman and Williamson then we would be seeing Docherty play a lot of his footy in the midfield but that just hasn't happened.

I think you've forgotten how good Docherty was and what sort of player he was.

I think the way things have gone though we will probably see Docherty play out his career predominantly in defence.
 
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Jimmae

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Docherty was used as a change midfielder at times in 2017 and he played well in that role. His acceleration and agility is better than some of the players we are playing in the midfield.
Name one, other than Kennedy, who won't get a game for the rest of the year if he shows the mobility he has been to this point.

Docherty is a great player, but he is a general defender, who can pinch hit on the wing in setups and matchups that allow for it. He could also plays as a medium forward in the right system, or do a job as an inside midfielder if we're down a few players, but he is a long way down the pecking order in terms of our current list.

I am so tired of reading 'Docherty to the midfield'; it is a dumb plan.

I have no doubt that we were gearing him up to play half back and a little midfield with the potential to play mostly midfield if things worked out that way.
I have no doubt either, but the person instigating that was fired because he didn't understand modern football systems well enough, and the other guy in the box backing him should be sent packing at the end of the season.
 

gbatman

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Name one, other than Kennedy, who won't get a game for the rest of the year if he shows the mobility he has been to this point.

Docherty is a great player, but he is a general defender, who can pinch hit on the wing in setups and matchups that allow for it. He could also plays as a medium forward in the right system, or do a job as an inside midfielder if we're down a few players, but he is a long way down the pecking order in terms of our current list.

I am so tired of reading 'Docherty to the midfield'; it is a dumb plan.


I have no doubt either, but the person instigating that was fired because he didn't understand modern football systems well enough, and the other guy in the box backing him should be sent packing at the end of the season.
Your memory is failing you and that can be forgiven seeing it was a while ago.

Docherty, slow and immobile, you have to be kidding.

If you have the capabilities then watch this game:

https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/13/gcfc-v-carl

I might be wrong but for memory this is one game where we played docherty half back and on the ball. I remember when we did it it was a really good thing.

The only reason we didn't do this all the time was because we couldn't because we didn't have the backline depth. If it wasn't for injuries to Docherty and Williamson etc etc in 2018 then Docherty would have played a lot more on the ball and would have built up to that role.

You've forgotten Docherty's capabilities and where he was building to as a player. If he was fit and played midfield this season he would have been around our second or third best midfielder without doubt.

In an ideal scenario Docherty plays as a defender who spends some time through the midfield. As I said we didn't have the luxury of giving him much time through the midfield because we didn't have the team to do it but when we did the results were good. As a more permanent midfielder who knows, he was a young star building towards some really really good footy and I feel we will never know.
 

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