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Delisted 13. Liam Stocker

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TheRedPill said:
This apprenticeship is an absolutely essential part of Stocker’s development.

The article touches on it briefly, but the biggest question marks I heard were on his endurance, defensive running and mental toughness/resilience. You might argue that all of these are at least somewhat interwoven.

He simply must learn to think more accountably, and Bolts was actually quite explicit in calling this out - how different junior footy is in this regard.

Whether he makes it or not, he’s in an ideal learning environment to develop with Bolts & Russell steering the ship. It now all comes down to how he embraces a growth mindset and how hungry he is to improve... Fingers crossed. He could - COULD - be a weapon if he gets these areas right.
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Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
 
LanceRomance said:
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
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And you expect that top 5 pick to be better developed than Stocker with 1 year of VFL/AFL coaching and games? Remember, Walsh is the outlier in terms of first year draftee productivity, not the rule.

We're so used to seeing all our young draftees playing AFL in their first year, however this was only with an aim to fast track and because this was the best path.
 
Not exactly sure where he slots in right now anyway, considering we still want to make room for LOB and Kennedy. So he may as well serve an apprenticeship in the VFL until absolutely ready. As someone rightly said, we are in a new phase where we can can actually develop our kids in the reserves rather than thrown into the deep end asap. I am pretty confident his story will be a successful one.
 

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skadoosh said:
And you expect that top 5 pick to be better developed than Stocker with 1 year of VFL/AFL coaching and games? Remember, Walsh is the outlier in terms of first year draftee productivity, not the rule.

We're so used to seeing all our young draftees playing AFL in their first year, however this was only with an aim to fast track and because this was the best path.
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Every 2017 draftee other than LDU played a minimum of 10 games last year.
One even played 26 having been in the Grand Final.....and he was the one with the health issues. :)

It's going to be inevitable that Stocker and the CFC will have some media attention trained on it in regards to this pick. We best get used to it.
No harm dome though if we develop what we saw and if we don't, we can't blame the media for rubbing our faces in it.
 
LanceRomance said:
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
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Why?

He's a mid with a very attacking mindset and skillset - and given we now have depth the club is taking the opportunity to develop his defensive game in his first season at the club. The decision itself is a good one - the question is how he'll respond to the challenge.
 
LanceRomance said:
Not exactly encouraging to read after what could be a top 5 pick in this years draft
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I wouldn’t worry too much. Every draftee who isn’t Sam Walsh has areas of improvement. We are just more aware of Stocker’s because of 1) he plays for Carlton 2) the trade and perhaps 3) his enormous upside if he can get them right.

Eventually, if we are going to challenge for a flag, we will need to have the playing culture and off-field structures & processes to develop unrefined talent - whether it’s a Morrish Medallist who went in the first round, or a speculative rookie pick.

At this stage, I am actually more interested in/concerned about whether the likes of Cuningham, Weitering, McKay and SPS can take the next step after 2-3 years in the system.
 
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
 
Arr0w said:
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
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Playing in the backline has real value. You need to work on your ability to beat your opponent, you need to think about creating opportunities. It’s the perfect combo for a developing mid.
 
Arr0w said:
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
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Not concerned at all.
We can't stick every mid we have into the midfield from the get-go.

As good a place to start as any and it's not as if he won't see midfield minutes in the NB's either.
 
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
 

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Callum Mills spent 3 (2 and a bit really) years playing as a back pocket after being drafted as the first midfielder in 2015, and is only now moving into a permanent midfield role.

With Simmo only a few years away from retirement, and Daisy not too far off either we are going to need another running defender developing. With some uncertainty surrounding Doc, and Williamson, it sounds like a reasonable step to get Stocker up to speed as a half-back. He could suit a myriad of roles, but he’s a nice kick, quick and courageous, so it could suit him.

We’ve currently got plenty of coverage for inside mids.
 
Kernafides said:
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
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Did we curb Simmo by playing him in defence?

Good players can play a variety of roles, and the main characteristics of the roles are transferable anyway.
 
Arr0w said:
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
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I think it's smart. Endurance is his issue and that is being fixed. Even then I believe he is still not a bad runner. His hardness and skills aren't an issue. There is no pressure on him. If he improves and gets 10 games this year that would be awesome.

Young players develop at different speeds. It's at around the 4 year mark you can really assess. I think it will take him a season and then he will really step up. Reminds me a bit of Clayton Oliver. Solid first year and then trained hard, slimmed down and went to a whole new level. That's how I see Stocker.

I still believe in a year or two, maybe three, he will venture into the midfield
 

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Kernafides said:
So we recruited Stocker to become a defender you reckon??? Fair enough
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Not sure where that came from...

You questioned the comment about Simmo being moved to defence, I pointed you towards some pretty clear evidence he was drafted as a winger, played midfield and half forward, before eventually settling down back.



Do I think we recruited Stocker as a defender? No. But I don't see any issue with playing him off half back in the reserves for a bit to give him some experience in how a team defence is structured. He may excel there and find a niche for himself, but more likely he gets exposed a little defensively, learns to be more accountable, and after improving that side of his game gets moved into a midfield role.

Might also have something to do with his lower endurance base, the club may feel it better for his development to start down back while they build his fitness up over the course of the year.
 
Arr0w said:
Not sure why some people are concerned with Stocker being earmarked for development on the HBF, even if he remains there for periods of his career at the next level.

Many kids that were drafted as 1st rounders, as midfielders have had solid/great stints/careers on a HBF

Hurn, Hartlett, Rich, Vlastuin, Ellis, Whitfield, Salem, Zak Jones, Mills, Milera, Duggan etc.

If he ends up being a 10 year player in multiple flags, doubt anyone will complain
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Hodge
 
Kernafides said:
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
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Every club does this........ Every club.
Ultimately there are only 3 midfielders plus 2 wings starting at any one time.
Every club does this, every club, every club. The amount of players that started in the back line is enormous, it's actually far less common for players to start straight in the middle. Luke Hodge, Dyson Heppell, Dangerfield........ Hardly any players actually start playing as pure midfielders. If it turns out that his one and only position is midfield and that he is not versatile at all then so be it, but I just don't see how this will have a negative affect on his development, we need versatile players since there are only 3 centre square mids at any one time. Cripps, Dow, SPS, O'Brien, Fisher, Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield, Kennedy, the math's doesn't add up for all of these players to be pure midfielders only.
Did I mention that every club does this?
 
Kernafides said:
Hate when we do this....surely you can teach 2 way running without being played in a position that is foreign to you....perfect way to curb your natural ball winning ability and turn you into a player with a negative mindset....I have seen us do this so many times...other clubs seem happy to develop natural young talent without having to do this.....any wonder why we have such a poor record in developing kids
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What you’ve seen over the last 20 years is HBF’s being groomed for midfield roles, there’s a big big difference.

The irony of this now is that we don’t have enough young genuine HBF/BP types

#bringbackhughes
 

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