Player Watch #15: Jayden Short

richoatthedisco

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Metres gained are valuable, especially in Richmonds helta skelta forward line when we preferred to have the ball on the ground half the time than in the air. Will be interesting to see how he plays with an extra quality marking target. Reminds me a bit of Stewie Maxfield with his long kicking to the hot spots. Richo loved the ball in his hands. Raines was the same with Cloke/Roach at CHF and Bartlett, Wiley and co. running past. Football hasn't changed that much, now that the chip possession phase has thankfully seen it's day.
Maxfield was tough as nails. Short is weak as piss. Raines was a champion who beat other champion midfielders to the ball. Short is a back pocket receiver who gets pushed over by skinny 18-year-olds.

Metres gained is useful as a measurement, up to a point. But when a measurement becomes a goal it ceases to be a measurement. I have no doubt Short played to maximise his metres gained, hence he would bang it long, get his 60 metres gained, the ball would be marked by the opposition, come straight back in and Short would stand and watch as his direct opponent kicked an easy goal.
 

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Boston tiger

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Maxfield was tough as nails. Short is weak as piss. Raines was a champion who beat other champion midfielders to the ball. Short is a back pocket receiver who gets pushed over by skinny 18-year-olds.

Metres gained is useful as a measurement, up to a point. But when a measurement becomes a goal it ceases to be a measurement. I have no doubt Short played to maximise his metres gained, hence he would bang it long, get his 60 metres gained, the ball would be marked by the opposition, come straight back in and Short would stand and watch as his direct opponent kicked an easy goal.
Get it in quick.
 

Grrr

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Maxfield was tough as nails. Short is weak as piss. Raines was a champion who beat other champion midfielders to the ball. Short is a back pocket receiver who gets pushed over by skinny 18-year-olds.

Metres gained is useful as a measurement, up to a point. But when a measurement becomes a goal it ceases to be a measurement. I have no doubt Short played to maximise his metres gained, hence he would bang it long, get his 60 metres gained, the ball would be marked by the opposition, come straight back in and Short would stand and watch as his direct opponent kicked an easy goal.
Yes obviously Maxwell was tough and Short isn't, and Raines was a champion and Short isn't, but the point of the comparison was that they used the ball long and forwards like it. Hence the reference to Richo and Cloke. What has being tough or beating other midfielders got to do with that.
Short's efficiency is pretty good for a guy that you say turns it over to the opposition, so yeah it may happen occasionally but with Lynch now in the picture (which was what my argument is all about) Short's kicking should become even more effective.
 

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more 'solid' than our Shorty
Considering that Jayden has just played 50 games and only really his 2nd full year and he is just 23 i think he still has a fair bit more improvement left in him
Far from being the finished product.

But 20 touches a game at 78% De from 79% tog is not going to shabby
 

richoatthedisco

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Whats your thoughts on Rory Laird, Looks like he gets a few Super coach points and not too bad a player
Short is not fit to carry Laird's boots.

More like 'get it away from me quick before the big bad man tackles me'. Panix dump kicks out of defence are different to long kicks inside 50. Short does more of the former.

Yes obviously Maxwell was tough and Short isn't, and Raines was a champion and Short isn't, but the point of the comparison was that they used the ball long and forwards like it. Hence the reference to Richo and Cloke. What has being tough or beating other midfielders got to do with that.
Short's efficiency is pretty good for a guy that you say turns it over to the opposition, so yeah it may happen occasionally but with Lynch now in the picture (which was what my argument is all about) Short's kicking should become even more effective.
Short plays in the backline. 3 of his 20 disposals per game go inside 50. That means 85% don't. So, I agree, your comparison to Maxfield and Raines is way off base.

A long kick to a contest is counted as efficient no matter what happens next. More meaningless stats.
 

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Short is not fit to carry Laird's boots.


More like 'get it away from me quick before the big bad man tackles me'. Panix dump kicks out of defence are different to long kicks inside 50. Short does more of the former.


Short plays in the backline. 3 of his 20 disposals per game go inside 50. That means 85% don't. So, I agree, your comparison to Maxfield and Raines is way off base.

A long kick to a contest is counted as efficient no matter what happens next. More meaningless stats.
Your picking the wrong season to be having a go at our style of play. It got us top of the ladder in a season when we were the hunted and screwed by the umpires.
By all means when we were finishing 13th and the boundary line was the backman’s friend , when Grimes only option was to do the embarrassing shoulder shrug and hope for a free etc etc. Then have a go at our style of play but to whinge about our backline set up at the moment is pointless.
We have all had a player that irks us but if the teams winning what can you do?

To be honest I think you are trying to rewrite history banging on about Short’s kicks coming straight back etc. As for saying he deliberately went long to win some metres gained accolade outside the club is a bit tough and a poor reflection on our culture.

Having a loose attacking backman is a coaches choice and other than some injuries would have worked a treat and it looks like we will be heading down that path again.
Let’s see how it goes this time.
 

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Short plays in the backline. 3 of his 20 disposals per game go inside 50. That means 85% don't. So, I agree, your comparison to Maxfield and Raines is way off base.

A long kick to a contest is counted as efficient no matter what happens next. More meaningless stats.[/QUOTE]
Yes far less inside 50's than Raines or Maxy, but many of Shorts kicks are up around the 60-70m mark, where CHF's play. Riewoldt (like Richo in particuar did), plays around that mark more this season even more so with Lynch arriving. Also a long kick to a contest suits us with Rioli, Butler and co. at Riewoldt's feet. The amount of work Jack does at the 70m mark is amazing.
And I think Short will get better at rebounding (like Houli), because right now I think he gets the easy ones out the back too much. He is learning the ropes.
 

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Considering that Jayden has just played 50 games and only really his 2nd full year and he is just 23 i think he still has a fair bit more improvement left in him
Far from being the finished product.

But 20 touches a game at 78% De from 79% tog is not going to shabby
I really don't understand the laying the boots in some posters dish out to young players. He's got some work to do still but he's got some traits that no other player on our list possess (except for Dusty).
He played every game last year for a reason and he'll improve again this year. The way some are talking on here, you would think he was an absolute dud.
 

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richoatthedisco

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Looks like another shit fight about carrying boots,

Just makes them look like Farqwitts
By all means, abuse away when your posts are pointed out as rubbish. Rory Laird is tough, strongly built, wins contests, wins his own ball. The only thing Short has in common with him is the general area of the ground they play in. And they're both right-footers.

Your picking the wrong season to be having a go at our style of play. It got us top of the ladder in a season when we were the hunted and screwed by the umpires.
By all means when we were finishing 13th and the boundary line was the backman’s friend , when Grimes only option was to do the embarrassing shoulder shrug and hope for a free etc etc. Then have a go at our style of play but to whinge about our backline set up at the moment is pointless.
We have all had a player that irks us but if the teams winning what can you do?

To be honest I think you are trying to rewrite history banging on about Short’s kicks coming straight back etc. As for saying he deliberately went long to win some metres gained accolade outside the club is a bit tough and a poor reflection on our culture.

Having a loose attacking backman is a coaches choice and other than some injuries would have worked a treat and it looks like we will be heading down that path again.
Let’s see how it goes this time.
Wow. Put words in my mouth much? Where do I have a go at our playing style? I'm having a go at Jayden Short, the overrated, unaccountable, soft. weak, timid, squib.

I didn't say "he deliberately went long to win some metres gained accolade outside the club". It would be an internal measurement as well - why do you think CD started keeping record of it.

I'm not rewriting history, I've been saying it since I noticed it. Most of 2018.

Yes far less inside 50's than Raines or Maxy, but many of Shorts kicks are up around the 60-70m mark, where CHF's play. Riewoldt (like Richo in particuar did), plays around that mark more this season even more so with Lynch arriving. Also a long kick to a contest suits us with Rioli, Butler and co. at Riewoldt's feet. The amount of work Jack does at the 70m mark is amazing.
And I think Short will get better at rebounding (like Houli), because right now I think he gets the easy ones out the back too much. He is learning the ropes.
Long kicks to a contest only suit us because Jack is a genius. He can't be everywhere. That's why so many of Short's long dump kicks come straight back.

Show me three Short kicks marked by Riewoldt.

I really don't understand the laying the boots in some posters dish out to young players. He's got some work to do still but he's got some traits that no other player on our list possess (except for Dusty).
He played every game last year for a reason and he'll improve again this year. The way some are talking on here, you would think he was an absolute dud.
You really don't understand if you think Short is the only player on our list who can kick the ball long. The way some are talking on here, you would think he was an absolute star, rather than an eminently replaceable designated kicker who is a liability at all other times.
 

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To my eye when Short is on we are a much more dangerous team. He causes the opposition to effectively mark him, or the space in front of him. He's a dynamic player that plays the role of filling space as a defender (valuable but nothing on Grimes, Astbury, Rance or Vlas - but then who is?), helping out, and moving the ball long to our advantage. If he gets soace he is a dominant player (that is instrumental in winning games) because he cuts defensive structures apart. He is also relatively easy to stop by filling space. But if you fill space up to stop a defender you are conceding a huge advantage. So even when Short is stopped he often is valuable because the other team has to play someone in a useless position - except to stop Short. If he was of the quality of Rance he would take that defensive structure on and rip it up. He isn't that quality. But anyone that you have to have a plan to stop is worth their place in the team. Especially if they can still contribute to a high level.

Hopefully his defensive work will improve. But he fills a role very well right now. He's a good solid soldier surrounded by stars in our backline.
 

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By all means, abuse away when your posts are pointed out as rubbish. Rory Laird is tough, strongly built, wins contests, wins his own ball. The only thing Short has in common with him is the general area of the ground they play in. And they're both right-footers.


Wow. Put words in my mouth much? Where do I have a go at our playing style? I'm having a go at Jayden Short, the overrated, unaccountable, soft. weak, timid, squib.

I didn't say "he deliberately went long to win some metres gained accolade outside the club". It would be an internal measurement as well - why do you think CD started keeping record of it.

I'm not rewriting history, I've been saying it since I noticed it. Most of 2018.


Long kicks to a contest only suit us because Jack is a genius. He can't be everywhere. That's why so many of Short's long dump kicks come straight back.

Show me three Short kicks marked by Riewoldt.


You really don't understand if you think Short is the only player on our list who can kick the ball long. The way some are talking on here, you would think he was an absolute star, rather than an eminently replaceable designated kicker who is a liability at all other times.
Pretty sure you've stated your case (multiple times on every page going back at least 5-6 pages). Did you really need to respond to me and state EXACTLY the same thing again? You're adding nothing new. We all get it. You don't like Short. Give yourself a thread ban before you pop a gasket. Go to a thread of a player you like and say something nice about them instead. :)
 

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Long kicks to a contest only suit us because Jack is a genius. He can't be everywhere. That's why so many of Short's long dump kicks come straight back.

Show me three Short kicks marked by Riewoldt..
I have stated numerous times that I don't like the way Short gets the ball out the back and has to kick it as long as he can, often around the corner and as you say Jack makes him look good. But after another preseason learning a bit more about playing the rebounding half back and hopefully learning off Houli's running patterns, he could become a weapon with his long kicking to position. Not so sure about the squib etc. He ran out of form as the season went, which goes a long way to making a player look worse than they are. I'll back him to rebound.
 

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Pretty sure you've stated your case
We all get it. You don't like Short. Give yourself a thread ban before you pop a gasket.
Pretty sure you've used that line a few times as well.

Laird got 30 odd touches in the grand final @ 90%, Short was not selected to play...

Nathan Wilson, Heath Shaw, Jared Polec, Sebastian Ross have meter gained numbers similar to Short, doesn't necessarily mean Id want them in the Richmond side either

Not so sure about the squib etc. He ran out of form as the season went, which goes a long way to making a player look worse than they are. I'll back him to rebound.
A problem is not only is he a bit soft but he is also very small and light which is not a great combination for a back pocket type
 

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By all means, abuse away when your posts are pointed out as rubbish. Rory Laird is tough, strongly built, wins contests, wins his own ball. The only thing Short has in common with him is the general area of the ground they play in. And they're both right-footers.


Wow. Put words in my mouth much? Where do I have a go at our playing style? I'm having a go at Jayden Short, the overrated, unaccountable, soft. weak, timid, squib.

I didn't say "he deliberately went long to win some metres gained accolade outside the club". It would be an internal measurement as well - why do you think CD started keeping record of it.

I'm not rewriting history, I've been saying it since I noticed it. Most of 2018.


Long kicks to a contest only suit us because Jack is a genius. He can't be everywhere. That's why so many of Short's long dump kicks come straight back.

Show me three Short kicks marked by Riewoldt.


You really don't understand if you think Short is the only player on our list who can kick the ball long. The way some are talking on here, you would think he was an absolute star, rather than an eminently replaceable designated kicker who is a liability at all other times.
Talk about Rubbish post , Mate your having a go at a bloke who was selected as a rookie and had offers flying all over the place for him to move by 3 other clubs

Rory Laird is Tough , Strongly built you say
When was the last time you seen Laird do something 'Tough' ....... Really he is as tough as barry hall was if you sort of squint your eyes and look in the right light
Strongly Built you say ?? 177cm & 81 kgs compared to Jayden Short 178cm & 75 kgs - I can see a massive differnce 6 kg's would make for an outside runner / Ball distributor

Never read so much crap as you have just spewed out in this thread mate - Certainly not your best work

Also considering that Laird is 2 years younger and has 120 games compared to shot 50 games
 

THE_GUN

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Pretty sure you've used that line a few times as well.

Laird got 30 odd touches in the grand final @ 90%, Short was not selected to play...

Nathan Wilson, Heath Shaw, Jared Polec, Sebastian Ross have meter gained numbers similar to Short, doesn't necessarily mean Id want them in the Richmond side either



A problem is not only is he a bit soft but he is also very small and light which is not a great combination for a back pocket type
Whilst i agree that Short is far from the finished product and has a way to go most would have said the same things about Bachar Houli for years and would have been the last player anybody would have thought could be our best (in most peoples eyes) in the 2017 premiership winning team

Who knows what Jayden Short might do if given the chance in the next few years , As i have stated Jayden Short was/is 22 years of age in 2018
 

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Whilst i agree that Short is far from the finished product and has a way to go most would have said the same things about Bachar Houli for years and would have been the last player anybody would have thought could be our best (in most peoples eyes) in the 2017 premiership winning team

Who knows what Jayden Short might do if given the chance in the next few years , As i have stated Jayden Short was/is 22 years of age in 2018
Richmond were a terrible side when Houli was developing.

Richmond are current the premiership favorites and have a very solid team. The plan should be to put out the strongest possible side not accept Shorts weakness and hope he is less bad in 3/4 years time while gifting him senior games
 

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Richmond were a terrible side when Houli was developing.

Richmond are current the premiership favorites and have a very solid team. The plan should be to put out the strongest possible side not accept Shorts weakness and hope he is less bad in 3/4 years time while gifting him senior games
Short is in the best 22 for Richmond so i dont get your point about putting out the strongest possible side , The Coaches believe he is good enough to keep out the next best and is playing exactly the game they want him to play which is the outside distributor role as well as providing a point of difference around the foward 50 when he drifts foward.

Richmond being a terrible side whilst Houli was developing ? Really what was he 23/24 when he crossed to Richmond and for the last 6 odd years we have had the same crap said about him until just recently but thats besides the point his game and playing style is exactly the same he is not a hard defensive player and not required to be and Short is the same he is an outside player that has a role to break lines and distribute the ball every team has them and needs them

Currently Jayden Short is the best we have in his role at Richmond and is coming along as expected for a 22 year old player playing his role
 

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Pretty sure you've used that line a few times as well.
Hello! Have we met? Don't recall encountering you before.

I'm sure I have used that line a few times before. Most likely when posters say the same thing over and over and over again.....

Thanks for paying attention. It's nice to know someone is listening. It means a lot. :)
 

tora tora tora

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Richmond were a terrible side when Houli was developing.

Richmond are current the premiership favorites and have a very solid team. The plan should be to put out the strongest possible side not accept Shorts weakness and hope he is less bad in 3/4 years time while gifting him senior games
Well do tell, who is this player who is going to kick Short out of the team? 15 gamer (zero in 2018 )Markov? Throw Kamdyn "chaos" McIntosh back there?
 
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richoatthedisco

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Talk about Rubbish post , Mate your having a go at a bloke who was selected as a rookie and had offers flying all over the place for him to move by 3 other clubs

Rory Laird is Tough , Strongly built you say
When was the last time you seen Laird do something 'Tough' ....... Really he is as tough as barry hall was if you sort of squint your eyes and look in the right light
Strongly Built you say ?? 177cm & 81 kgs compared to Jayden Short 178cm & 75 kgs - I can see a massive differnce 6 kg's would make for an outside runner / Ball distributor

Never read so much crap as you have just spewed out in this thread mate - Certainly not your best work

Also considering that Laird is 2 years younger and has 120 games compared to shot 50 games
as I've said before, you are a 15-year-old fangirl trapped in a 52-year-old man's body. I'm sure you kiss the Shorty poster on your wall right before bed.

For someone so obsessed with knowing exactly how tall each player is every day, one would think you might have some idea of the significance 6kg of muscle has, especially on the little guys. Laird is tough because he puts his body on the line. Short stays out of harm's way.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
 
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as I've said before, you are a 15-year-old fangirl trapped in a 52-year-old man's body. I'm sure you kiss the Shorty poster on your wall right before bed.

For someone so obsessed with knowing exactly how tall each player is every day, one would think you might have some idea of the significance 6kg of muscle has, especially on the little guys. Laird is tough because he puts his body on the line. Short stays out of harm's way.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
What a load of Rubbish , Players get drafted later for a reason and thats usually because they either have flaws to work on or personal issue's or just are not at the required level at the time of being drafted so may need more development. So yes it does make a difference.

In regards to your chauvinistic comment regarding under age fan girls , Perhaps you might like to discuss your infatuation with a former pick #12 that was as soft as butter which you kept telling us about. But im sure you are still secretly a fan and by looking at how highly you rated him i think i will ignore your opinion of a players quality Mr C. Ellis is a whopping ball of muscle at 79kgs and 184cm (2kgs lighter than when drafted)

Now if you have the time perhaps you might like to go back to my posts about Short prior to his signing an extension last year and what we should pay him and what we should not to get a better understanding of where i rate him and if i have posters on my wall When the majority wanted us to pay him $500k a year which was the offer from other clubs i am on record as saying that $350k max as he is not at that level yet and would need to work on parts of his game still.

I wont even bother with going into the heights of players as thats my issue regarding the RFC webside and the inaccurate heights / weights thing
Have a good day sunshine and dont bother replying to my post as i dont have anymore time to waste on reading utter Sh!t
 
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Short plays in the backline. 3 of his 20 disposals per game go inside 50. That means 85% don't. So, I agree, your comparison to Maxfield and Raines is way off base.

A long kick to a contest is counted as efficient no matter what happens next. More meaningless stats.
Yes far less inside 50's than Raines or Maxy, but many of Shorts kicks are up around the 60-70m mark, where CHF's play. Riewoldt (like Richo in particuar did), plays around that mark more this season even more so with Lynch arriving. Also a long kick to a contest suits us with Rioli, Butler and co. at Riewoldt's feet. The amount of work Jack does at the 70m mark is amazing.
And I think Short will get better at rebounding (like Houli), because right now I think he gets the easy ones out the back too much. He is learning the ropes.[/QUOTE]
This is why I want short to play wong, so he can use his long kicking to a more dangerous position ie our tall fwds.
 
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