Player Watch #15 Kieren Jack - 250 games!

Mick Oxlong

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I specifically commented on you suggesting he had no tackles, which was not the case.

How about McCartin? 8 disposals, 1 tackle. Fox 7 disposals, 2 tackles. Florent 7 disposals and 4 tackles?

Should all these guys get dropped too?
I would like to make an observation about the ‘tackles’ component of a players game. They should never ever be relied on in my opinion. Let’s use Jack as an example (as you have above) and his tally of 5 tackles. 5 tackles is great when you look at a stat sheet from a basic perspective, in fact if everyone had 5 tackles, you’d probably be pretty pleased at their contesting. However, of those 5 tackles, how many were effective? Ie. did those tackles effectively give us the ball 5 times, did those tackles release the ball to a 50/50 contest or did those tackles fail to break possession?

If it’s the latter, number of tackles are moot!
 

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Mick Oxlong

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And?

Reid had 8 touches too but also 8 tackles? Everyone seems to want him dropped.

We have very little in reserve. Replacing Fox and Jack with say any of Rose, Rowbottom, Clarke isn’t going to give us significant improvement but will reduce on field leadership.

Florent has had a few average to poor games this year, but like you I can wear that as he is still developing and making a great contribution than anyone sitting (fit) on the sidelines would.
Just the bolded...yep, irrelevant!
 

TheMase

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I would like to make an observation about the ‘tackles’ component of a players game. They should never ever be relied on in my opinion. Let’s use Jack as an example (as you have above) and his tally of 5 tackles. 5 tackles is great when you look at a stat sheet from a basic perspective, in fact if everyone had 5 tackles, you’d probably be pretty pleased at their contesting. However, of those 5 tackles, how many were effective? Ie. did those tackles effectively give us the ball 5 times, did those tackles release the ball to a 50/50 contest or did those tackles fail to break possession?

If it’s the latter, number of tackles are moot!
That’s all good and well, and you’re right. I don’t have stats on effective tackles.

However I replied to a post suggesting he had next to no tackles. I wasn’t making the argument they were effective, just that the statement made was incorrect.
 

Tedeski

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I specifically commented on you suggesting he had no tackles, which was not the case.

How about McCartin? 8 disposals, 1 tackle. Fox 7 disposals, 2 tackles. Florent 7 disposals and 4 tackles?

Should all these guys get dropped too?
Hey Masey.
You've used too much effort responding to something that doesn't deserve your effort.

You've even said that Jack will be out as soon as Buddy is back & I've even said that but they don't want discussion.
Have a breather & sit back tonight & read the game day thread during the game for the real laugh.

These guys get no enjoyment whatsoever from watching our team play & haven't done so for years.
Game day thread is proof.
Hopefully we win for the sake of any fair minded supporters on here that actually find SOME enjoyment from watching our team fight through form struggles, players & coaches.:)
 

Swan4Life

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I would like to make an observation about the ‘tackles’ component of a players game. They should never ever be relied on in my opinion. Let’s use Jack as an example (as you have above) and his tally of 5 tackles. 5 tackles is great when you look at a stat sheet from a basic perspective, in fact if everyone had 5 tackles, you’d probably be pretty pleased at their contesting. However, of those 5 tackles, how many were effective? Ie. did those tackles effectively give us the ball 5 times, did those tackles release the ball to a 50/50 contest or did those tackles fail to break possession?

If it’s the latter, number of tackles are moot!
I would argue that it is the number of missed tackles that are just as, if not, more critical.

The number of teflon tackling efforts from our boys this year has not gone unnoticed.
 

Mick Oxlong

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That’s all good and well, and you’re right. I don’t have stats on effective tackles.

However I replied to a post suggesting he had next to no tackles. I wasn’t making the argument they were effective, just that the statement made was incorrect.
All good. Note that I used Jack as an example, just my take on tackles and how they're perceived.
 

Mick Oxlong

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I would argue that it is the number of missed tackles that are just as, if not, more critical.

The number of teflon tackling efforts from our boys this year has not gone unnoticed.
Absolutely, you'd rather players tackling than not, of course! On the flip side, you'd probably rather have the ball and then you don't need to tackle!
 

Bloodied52

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I can remember when KJ was an incredibly valued member of our team.

The on-field experience and direction which Ted et al claim as the reason for his selection would consist of little more than yelling at his fellow forwards, "Flood back. Flood Back. Flood Back."

Now Jose is coaching from the boundary line he is perfectly capable of barking out that clear instruction.
 

caesar88

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Hey Masey.
You've used too much effort responding to something that doesn't deserve your effort.

You've even said that Jack will be out as soon as Buddy is back & I've even said that but they don't want discussion.
Have a breather & sit back tonight & read the game day thread during the game for the real laugh.

These guys get no enjoyment whatsoever from watching our team play & haven't done so for years.
Game day thread is proof.
Hopefully we win for the sake of any fair minded supporters on here that actually find SOME enjoyment from watching our team fight through form struggles, players & coaches.:)
You have a very bizarre perspective of how people watch and follow the football.
 

The King!

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What influence is he having on other players in regards to direction / instruction? Not everything can be measured statistically by us. Maybe it would be even worse without that instruction. I really don’t know.

What I do know is putting another kid out there wont help with direction / instruction and their output isn’t likely to be much more than Jacks, if at all.

When Buddy returns I would like to see Jack back in the NEAFL, as he can replace his instructional influence in the forward half.

Yeah look how well jacks guidance is going would be last if we just chucked all the kids out there

Oh hang on
 

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The King!

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Hey Masey.
You've used too much effort responding to something that doesn't deserve your effort.

You've even said that Jack will be out as soon as Buddy is back & I've even said that but they don't want discussion.
Have a breather & sit back tonight & read the game day thread during the game for the real laugh.

These guys get no enjoyment whatsoever from watching our team play & haven't done so for years.
Game day thread is proof.
Hopefully we win for the sake of any fair minded supporters on here that actually find SOME enjoyment from watching our team fight through form struggles, players & coaches.:)

Targeting the people when you have no counter argument tsk tsk
 

caesar88

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Yeah look how well jacks guidance is going would be last if we just chucked all the kids out there

Oh hang on
Now now Kingy.. We may be losing every week but it’s the experienced guys who are stopping these losses from being thrashings. Like Jack who had 34 disposals out of the middle last week despite playing on Lachie Neale, and it was Sam Reid who kicked 4 goals despite getting wounded in the ribs. These senior guys are standing up when the younger guys like George Hewett and Tom Papley aren’t! We’d be screwed without them!
 

The King!

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Now now Kingy.. We may be losing every week but it’s the experienced guys who are stopping these losses from being thrashings. Like Jack who had 34 disposals out of the middle last week despite playing on Lachie Neale, and it was Sam Reid who kicked 4 goals despite getting wounded in the ribs. These senior guys are standing up when the younger guys like George Hewett and Tom Papley aren’t! We’d be screwed without them!

When did Reid kick 4 goals?

I just disagree

We are playing old guys who are done it serves no real purpose

You need leadership yes but we not passengers

Jack may as well take a job as a bench coach and provide leadership that way

He is a liability right now and it’s sad as he has been a gun
 

MC Bad Genius

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Thread starter #394
When did Reid kick 4 goals?

I just disagree

We are playing old guys who are done it serves no real purpose

You need leadership yes but we not passengers

Jack may as well take a job as a bench coach and provide leadership that way

He is a liability right now and it’s sad as he has been a gun
Come on. A blind man could tell that one was sarcasm.
 

TheMase

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Yeah look how well jacks guidance is going would be last if we just chucked all the kids out there

Oh hang on
Perhaps the results would be even worse without guidance?

Look I am not at all saying Jack is a huge contributor, I am just saying this is probably why he would be selected, particularly in the absence of Buddy, to provide experience. I am not even saying it is right, but I can understand why the coaches feel they need another experienced head / organiser out there. This is potentially particularly so without runners being allowed to runaround as they please.
 

The King!

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Perhaps the results would be even worse without guidance?

Look I am not at all saying Jack is a huge contributor, I am just saying this is probably why he would be selected, particularly in the absence of Buddy, to provide experience. I am not even saying it is right, but I can understand why the coaches feel they need another experienced head / organiser out there. This is potentially particularly so without runners being allowed to runaround as they please.

You are right that’s why he is picked

Just not what I would do but guess that’s why I’m in the car waiting for the kids to come out and horse is planning to coach v Essendon tonight

Though he only has 1 more win than me this year :p
 

Mick Oxlong

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Hey Masey.
You've used too much effort responding to something that doesn't deserve your effort.

You've even said that Jack will be out as soon as Buddy is back & I've even said that but they don't want discussion.
Have a breather & sit back tonight & read the game day thread during the game for the real laugh.

These guys get no enjoyment whatsoever from watching our team play & haven't done so for years.
Game day thread is proof.
Hopefully we win for the sake of any fair minded supporters on here that actually find SOME enjoyment from watching our team fight through form struggles, players & coaches.:)
Talks about finding enjoyment by actually watching the football...reads game day thread during the game! Full of it!
 

Caj

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I think we should all probably pull the pin on this thread for the moment!! :oops:

I get the feeling KJ is either going to be really poor, or kick the winning goal Gary Rohan style tonight (or maybe both!!!) just to keep it going!!!
 

Number37

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Perhaps the results would be even worse without guidance?

Look I am not at all saying Jack is a huge contributor, I am just saying this is probably why he would be selected, particularly in the absence of Buddy, to provide experience. I am not even saying it is right, but I can understand why the coaches feel they need another experienced head / organiser out there. This is potentially particularly so without runners being allowed to runaround as they please.
He picks players and it's a great big conspiracy. He doesn't pick players and it's a great big conspiracy.
He plays the kids and it's a great big conspiracy. He doesn't play the kids and it's a great big conspiracy.
Bigfooty genii Mase, they just say whatever suits their Horse isn't flairy enough agenda.
 

caesar88

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Perhaps the results would be even worse without guidance?

Look I am not at all saying Jack is a huge contributor, I am just saying this is probably why he would be selected, particularly in the absence of Buddy, to provide experience. I am not even saying it is right, but I can understand why the coaches feel they need another experienced head / organiser out there. This is potentially particularly so without runners being allowed to runaround as they please.
Which is fair enough that’s Horse’s prerogative, but you can understand why it would be frustrating for someone who doesn’t agree with that prerogative?
 
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