Murphylaw40
Draftee
- Apr 11, 2018
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Hi came across this article https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...l/news-story/50519729b250e7a2e388b0be99a86819 and am curious what other footy fans think about this model.
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Opinion 17/5 fixture
- Thread starter Murphylaw40
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hellboy1975
All Australian
I'm not sure how this would make the competition any more even.
GreyCrow
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No
- Oct 28, 2014
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I reckon we should all just do whatever Patrick thinks.
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Patty doesn't have tickets on himself...............................................MUCH
Shaz2012
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Its a completely stupid idea. It is so unfair its ridiculous. I know there are two games to go, but for arguments sake apply it to the current ladder:
Group 1
Richmond 48 137.83
Collingwood 44 122.15
West Coast 44 120.6
Port Adelaide 44 117.59
Sydney 40 118.29
Melbourne 36 127.85
* Melbourne could easily slip out of the 8, they are level on points with 3 teams in Group 2 and are ready to be jumped by GWS.
* Teams usually win premierships on back half of season form, rather than the first couple of months. This means you would get bad teams in the final 8.
* Are they going to scrap points back to zero at this point? If so, then all of the domination that Richmond have put together this season is for nothing. A couple of untimely injuries to Dusty and Cotchin and they could slip out of the top 4.
Group 2
Geelong 36 123.06
Hawthorn 36 118.12
North Melbourne 36 115.98
GWS Giants 34 111.7
Adelaide 28 97.37
Essendon 28 94.21
Group 3
Fremantle 24 82.36
Western Bulldogs 20 74.31
St Kilda 14 72.56
Brisbane Lions 12 88.9
Gold Coast 12 62.71
Carlton 4 62.18
* These games would be a farce. Freo and WB are never going to get jumped by any of the teams below them if they retain their points.
* You can't put everyone back to zero and incentivise teams in this group to win games to get the top picks because the bottom teams would always finish..... bottom - funnily enough.
* So you would perpetually have teams at the bottom finishing bottom, and still misssing out on the top picks.
* It would essentially mean bottoming out for a rebuild, just means dipping below 12th for a season in order to pick up pick 1, 19 and 37 and then go back on your merry way.
Group 1
Richmond 48 137.83
Collingwood 44 122.15
West Coast 44 120.6
Port Adelaide 44 117.59
Sydney 40 118.29
Melbourne 36 127.85
* Melbourne could easily slip out of the 8, they are level on points with 3 teams in Group 2 and are ready to be jumped by GWS.
* Teams usually win premierships on back half of season form, rather than the first couple of months. This means you would get bad teams in the final 8.
* Are they going to scrap points back to zero at this point? If so, then all of the domination that Richmond have put together this season is for nothing. A couple of untimely injuries to Dusty and Cotchin and they could slip out of the top 4.
Group 2
Geelong 36 123.06
Hawthorn 36 118.12
North Melbourne 36 115.98
GWS Giants 34 111.7
Adelaide 28 97.37
Essendon 28 94.21
Group 3
Fremantle 24 82.36
Western Bulldogs 20 74.31
St Kilda 14 72.56
Brisbane Lions 12 88.9
Gold Coast 12 62.71
Carlton 4 62.18
* These games would be a farce. Freo and WB are never going to get jumped by any of the teams below them if they retain their points.
* You can't put everyone back to zero and incentivise teams in this group to win games to get the top picks because the bottom teams would always finish..... bottom - funnily enough.
* So you would perpetually have teams at the bottom finishing bottom, and still misssing out on the top picks.
* It would essentially mean bottoming out for a rebuild, just means dipping below 12th for a season in order to pick up pick 1, 19 and 37 and then go back on your merry way.
Divisions perhaps........
Every division once and your own twice
Every division once and your own twice
Some team is nearly guaranteed to only have 10 home games if the groups are fixed because half the league will have 8 home games from the 17 and the other half will get 9 and the likelihood of the groups having 3 of each half is low.
- Moderator
- #11
The two things that makes no sense to me with the 17 and 5 model is
1. After 17 games half the teams would have had 8 home games while the other half would have had 9 home games. If most of the teams in the same group have played the same number of home games how are you supposed to juggle it so that all teams get their 11 home games?
2. It still won't ensure a fair draw, imagine this year if Port hypothetically had WCE, Richmond and Geelong at home while it was Adelaide's year to play them away, how on earth is that fair ? Playing teams once is okay in theory but when you start weighing schedules factoring in home ground advantages the draw can be just as unfair year to year as it is now.
1. After 17 games half the teams would have had 8 home games while the other half would have had 9 home games. If most of the teams in the same group have played the same number of home games how are you supposed to juggle it so that all teams get their 11 home games?
2. It still won't ensure a fair draw, imagine this year if Port hypothetically had WCE, Richmond and Geelong at home while it was Adelaide's year to play them away, how on earth is that fair ? Playing teams once is okay in theory but when you start weighing schedules factoring in home ground advantages the draw can be just as unfair year to year as it is now.
- Moderator
- #12
You beat me to it, the only way I can think to get around it is for 1 permanent double up fixture for everyone to get to 18 games.
- May 26, 2013
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They are right though - the number of games played has nothing to do with the current size of the comp but is a relic of a period when you played each side twice - ie when the fixture was fair.
The problem with say having 17 games and rotating over two years who gets the home game is with 8 non-Vic and 10 Vic sides it would be damn hard to organise it so everyone gets a fair number of interstate trips in any one year.
The 17 and 5 things is dumb.
I hate the fixture as it is, and I especially hate that all sides do not play each other in the first 17 rounds.
I would be happy with an odds and evens effective divisions so 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 and 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18 from the previous year play each other twice and the other division once. The premiership table stays as it is but everyone knows how the fixture is worked out.
And bugger the "must play twice games" of derbies, showdowns etc etc. Which is why it will never happen.
The problem with say having 17 games and rotating over two years who gets the home game is with 8 non-Vic and 10 Vic sides it would be damn hard to organise it so everyone gets a fair number of interstate trips in any one year.
The 17 and 5 things is dumb.
I hate the fixture as it is, and I especially hate that all sides do not play each other in the first 17 rounds.
I would be happy with an odds and evens effective divisions so 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 and 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18 from the previous year play each other twice and the other division once. The premiership table stays as it is but everyone knows how the fixture is worked out.
And bugger the "must play twice games" of derbies, showdowns etc etc. Which is why it will never happen.
Shaz2012
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You could do a pre-determined ladder fixture up until round 17 and have a mathematical model (think Duckworth-Lewis) that makes a draw for the remaining games so that every team has an approximately statistically equal difficulty draw for the remaining 5 games. The number of home and away games should be kept to 11/11. Could possibly bring the bye round to round 17 so that every team has an extra week to prepare for the 5 remaining games.
Statistical model should take into account difficulty level at home vs away as should the initial draw of the first 17 games.
Edit: Alternatively, you could make the fixture for the remaining 5 games deterministic based on the ladder positions after round 17. So no draw or model would be needed. Eg. you finish in P1, you have to play P3, P6, P9, P12, P15. But maybe the suggested fixed double up round would be needed to sort out home advantage and do an 18/4 model. Last 4: P1 vs P3(A), P6(H), P9(A), P12(H).
Statistical model should take into account difficulty level at home vs away as should the initial draw of the first 17 games.
Edit: Alternatively, you could make the fixture for the remaining 5 games deterministic based on the ladder positions after round 17. So no draw or model would be needed. Eg. you finish in P1, you have to play P3, P6, P9, P12, P15. But maybe the suggested fixed double up round would be needed to sort out home advantage and do an 18/4 model. Last 4: P1 vs P3(A), P6(H), P9(A), P12(H).
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- Moderator
- #15
I would also imagine that the AFL I mean VFL would use it as a prime opportunity to have it so that the Vic teams only play in each state only once a year.
ie They play WCE, Port, Bris and Sydney one year and then Freo, Adelaide, GC and GWS the next.
- Moderator
- #16
I say screw the cricket, lets just have a 34 week regular season where everyone plays everyone twice and a 4 week finals series.
The season starts in the 2nd week in Feb (play most of the games in the first few weeks at night) and then have the season run until the end of October.
The season starts in the 2nd week in Feb (play most of the games in the first few weeks at night) and then have the season run until the end of October.
Cincinnatus
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- #17
Id love a 34 game season and NO finals at all.
Obviously issue with this is there is nothing left for bottom teams to fight for other than to avoid relegation which we dont have but you would see a lot more youth being blooded by all teams to manage the season.
But thatll never happen so Id rather a 17 game season, no byes and a 10 team finals system. Top 6 get first week off while 7-10 fight it out for the right to go on.
Obviously issue with this is there is nothing left for bottom teams to fight for other than to avoid relegation which we dont have but you would see a lot more youth being blooded by all teams to manage the season.
But thatll never happen so Id rather a 17 game season, no byes and a 10 team finals system. Top 6 get first week off while 7-10 fight it out for the right to go on.
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Less teams, play everyone twice. It's the only way.
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- #19
Sounds great to me,
Put a line through GC, GWS, Bulldogs, North Melbourne and St Kilda.
Put a team in Tassie go with 14 teams over a 26 week season.
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- #20
A 17 week season will never happen because the league will missing out on 45 regular season games which will dramatically lower the value of the TV rights agreement.
Any new system will include the same number of games or potentially more.
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yuck
Cincinnatus
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- #23
Unless they add 2 teams and make it a 19 week season.
GreyCrow
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Yum
The same old s**t idea gets recycled every year thanks to the fatcats at Channel 7.
They, and their best mate Gill, can piss off.
They, and their best mate Gill, can piss off.
