Player Watch #17: Daniel Rioli - 5 more years! (Contracted until 2027)
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Muddiemoose
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Noidnadroj
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I don’t think anyone’s saying he’s elite or a superstar. They’ve been saying he’s playing great footy at half back and the move has revitalised his career. You’ve wanted him moved back to the forward line which is where he became a VFL player.
I think you keep looking for ‘outs’ and excuses as to why it hasn’t been a good move as you don’t want to admit you were wrong ….. blaming Rioli when our defence has leaked goals, and now on the back of another excellent game saying ‘let’s see how he goes against the top teams’. So if we lose a few or he has a quieter game you’ll be able to say ‘see, the backline is too leaky with Rioli in it ‘ …. even if he has little to do with the leaking.
Anyway … it’s ok to admit that 10-weeks into the season the permanent move of Rioli back has been overwhelmingly positive for Rioli and the team - enabling Short to be injected into the midfield is a huge added bonus.
Without writing a lengthy monologue, see if you can answer this question:
“On Friday night against the Swans do you think Rioli should be played at half back or up forward?”
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To be fair here, "ive mainly questioned how this all looks when we play against better opponents and when opposition coaches target & try to negate/expolit his game. I just haven't seen that yet. The past month has been a pretty weak run of teams & I don't think he has really be tested defensively yet.
I' am also old enough to remember a lot of examples of players who were struggling in one role be given a somewhat easies task ( running HB, 3rd man in defender etc ) being relatively accountable down back go from being average to looking like a superstar for 1 season, before the opponents get jack of it and pick their game apart and exploit them. Patrick Bowden comes to mind. Had 5 years plodding at the Doggies, came to us & Terry used him as a floating 3rd man sweeper/intercept marker - he had 1 season where his stats were elite. Went from averaging a few mark & 11 touches a game, to 9 marks & 21 touches a game. Lead the side in Marks in a season where richo played 22 games, & was 4 overall in the league.
By the start of the next season however, he. teams had picked it apart and he was dropping in ineffectiveness & had a season with on/off injury concerns. Was cut by the end of the season.
I am in NO WAY saying that Dan will have that happen to him, but it is certainly a cautious tale of jumping to conclusions when we see a spike in a players form when shifting to a new position, especially when your team is more middling & the opposition are not picking your game apart as much. Just want to see him do it against elite teams & coaches before we start hailing him the next Houli.
Ultimately the coaches votes this season has been 1 against the Eagles & he is quite likely to get a couple this week against the Bombers. 2 games where the opposition are dreadful & unlikely to poll many votes themselves. His high level2 way performances have been against the 2/3 worst teams and an easy, soft target.
Are we seriously going to do this after every game?
Noidnadroj
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Houli was an outstanding running defender, but to suggest he was very strong defensively I think is a bit of a stretch. He was more than adequate defensively and could hold his own, but putting him in the same class as McKay is fanciful - just my opinion though so maybe others agree with you..?
I think our backline was able to structure in a way to support Houli’s role where he was rarely exposed one-on-one and rarely had to defend deep. If his opponent took him deep he’d swap with Vlastuin, Grimes or Broad. You’d be super comfortable with McKay or Tom Stewart on Toby Greene or Dusty Martin types out of the goal square … Houli would never have been trusted with that type of defensive role.
FWIW I don’t believe Rioli can be put into the same class as Houli just yet, and Houli was a gun for us. But I don’t believe hard nosed defending was his long suit.
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Morro
Brownlow Medallist
That's a good response and it seems you are basing your opinion on either of the 2 scenarios,
Havent seen enough?
Oppo teams have been weak?
Regardless, you should / could base your opinion on his body of work thus far which has been nothing short of excellent. You also refuse to acknowledge the quality of his opponents, yet you hold on to the quality of the entire opposition team, which is it mate? The opposition matters or not?
Respectfully, you do continue to move the goal posts on this one as the weeks go by and his form continues to grow, I hope unlike many posters, you eventually have the nuts to say, "I was wrong"
That's a good response and it seems you are basing your opinion on either of the 2 scenarios,
Havent seen enough?
Oppo teams have been weak?
Regardless, you should / could base your opinion on his body of work thus far which has been nothing short of excellent. You also refuse to acknowledge the quality of his opponents, yet you hold on to the quality of the entire opposition team, which is it mate? The opposition matters or not?
Respectfully, you do continue to move the goal posts on this one as the weeks go by and his form continues to grow, I hope unlike many posters, you eventually have the nuts to say, "I was wrong"
Yes, with the 3rd thing being i am just very strong in a belief that he still could refind the form up forward when placed in a refreshed system with like minded players. I think our forwardline is still one piece short of being a massive problem. I am a big believer of judging a player based on the overall results of the system they play in. Its why i defend Castagna, he has been a key player in many great forward systems. Breaking down a players individual results, be it good or bad, when the system they are playing in is somewhat broken always reeks of fools gold to me. Its promising, but i have a big fat "cautious" sticker on the enthusiasm. Elite systems win flags, not very good individual role players
With a bit of luck, we see Cumberland come in this week and take his chance & be that guy. He is clearly a different type of player, but he has a whiff of a Nathan Brown about him, certainly not at the same levl obviously - but a mid-size forward that can kick a few goals in a few different ways and break a match.
For me its looking at the back/forward systems and saying "do they look complete? If not, then what can we do with what we got to do that". I think it would be crazy for Dimma to not trial the Dan down forward at some point as its a plan B in a final that could swing a game. Give him a half in a big win or loss, a quarter here or there where we have the luxury to do it. Its surely worth exploring.
Houli was very good defensively when he needed to be in the big games that matters, in the big moments that mattered. Its effectively this in reverse where i question Dan. Yes, he has shown he can be a very good running HB against weaker, unaccaountable rebuilding teams - but have we seen any proof of him being able to do it in a big game, in a big match?
I can certainly agree that its something that doesn't happen overnight and needs to be developed. This EXACT thing happened with Jayden Short in 2018 - he had a great season, but he was targeted and very ordinary in the Pies Prelim. I had the same massive warning bells on him then as all year he looked great running and kicking the ball long but come that final Buckley did a good job of exploiting his weakness. Short worked on it and got better, but Short was also 21-22 at the time.
My main thing with the Dan thing is i actually think we had a great back 7 that had very few exploitable parts in a big game. Grimes, Vloss, Broad, Short, Baker, Balta, Gibcus. - add in Tarrant & sprinkles games of Mansell for development. I think that combo has less flair running, but is a pretty sure bet defensively for me.
This entire argument has always been about the VERY small details for me - not some massive "he will cost us success" thing at all - but i am a big fan of strong defensive units & i like my HBF runners to be like Andrew McKay, Corey Enright, Bachar Houli, Birchall etc, provide run & can also be a stopper & have the toughness required & can defend in many different ways. You rarely saw those guys get exploited in big games with mismatches, they could hold their own physically.
Conveniently ignoring games against better opposition we have already played and only 'NOW' pointing out the last 4 weeks claiming to go by the weaker teams. Even though the team we beat the previous week just bean the 2nd favorite for the flag this year.
Totally ignoring that we have also played the bulldogs , Melbourne , Carlton and GWS
Rioli has been performing his role beautifully all year and even in games where we have lost he was still in our 'better' players.
Time to accept you were wrong and Daniel Rioli is 1 of our top 10 players so far this year and adapted to his defensive role perfectly
Sure i will admit that he cannot defend against the 200cm KPF power fowards or have the Wingspan that allows him to fly over the packs
But he is doing a bloody good job and will be on the radar of a few teams this year being OOC.
Don't disagree, but you certainly wouldn't do it against a top 8 team where the system needs to be tested and fine tuned - which you yourself said you want to see if Rioli stands up in that system.
So perhaps against the Weagles or Norf coming up after the next month of games would be a move worth exploring IF we are well up in the games.
Still, can't see the coaching staff doing it even then. Especially if Mansell is be trained now elsewhere. But if Short is not performing as a mid, logically Ross / RCD step in there, and I agree with you on the Baker choice. Prefer him down back to Rioli and Shorty goes back to his running role that could free Rioli up to trial again as as forward. But only if as you predict he gets opened up defensively. I'm not sure he does, but I am also curious to see how he goes in the next month. But I will be watching his man, not so much on the system as you say. If a big forward (King) rips a game apart with great delivery from his mids, you can't put any of that on Rioli if he has tracked his man all game and played his role with great metres gained - even if we lose by 60 points.
argh, why would you re-train Mansell elsewhere? He is a born defender.
Its stuff like that which makes me frustrated tbh. To find a new home for Dan we had to retire Houli, move Baker forward, then Short to the middle, now re-train Mansell. It just appears to me that we have more than enough natural defenders at our disposal to spend so much time and sidetrack so many other peoples careers and development, just to rebuild Dan. Its all the collateral damage associated with it.
Trying to reposition Mansell will be as bad of an idea as it was to do that to Ross IMO.
I certainly get the point of "dan is playing well, be happy" - but the collateral damage and the question marks i have if it will stand up in a prelim etc makes me wonder if its worth it. I've said before, doing all this stuff ( ignoring playing kids, re-signing older blokes, repositioning players to avoid playing kids ) i am not sure if its worth it if its only getting us 6th to 9th. If it gets us a top 4, prelim - then sure. But if i have doubts if that will be targeted and easily exposed in that Prelim, then it becomes questionable again.
LOL
I will quote anybody's post i like and fully entitled to !!
Specially if i read things thats are wrong like your posts claiming Bachar Houli has a bigger Wingspan or Balta getting his leg amputated
I’m pretty happy for club to wait to , if we’re paying near 600 he has to be a lock inside our top 12 ,, right now he’s looking the goods ,, let’s hope it is sustained , I reckon it will as he has the tools to be an elite HB
Please do not quote me. I have zero interest in talking to you & I think everyone has zero interest in listening to us squabble any longer. Just move on and find a new person to annoy. You can't just quote people if they have said they don't want to engage with you - to do so is harassment and against the rules i have sent you. Do you seriously want to spend your day trolling a stranger who refuses to talk back or even read your post properly? you are wasting your time
$600k for Dan Rioli is a huge risk.
He looked good at HFF for a few years too before he got bored of it. What certainty is there that wont happen again?
Wouldn't you rather spend that money on getting a young up and coming premium mid? If we have to rebuild, its hard to do that if you are paying a HBF that sort of money + Lynch, Dusty Bolton etc
If we did that i could see us having a midfield to rival that of those we had for the entire 90's-2000's - a subpar midfield that has capped success ceiling
LOL the gift that never stops giving
We never retired Houli to accommodate a move for Rioli to the backline
Bachar was cooked and a 33 year old with 2 years of soft tissue injuries.
Mansell is not a rebounding defender that breaks line but more a lockdown small back and totally irrelevant to Rioli move
We dont have a spot for Mansell as a small back in our best line up.
Currently Dan Rioli is the best player on our list for the role he is playing after jayden Short who has become a 30 poss midfielder
Unless i am told my the moderators that i am not allowed to quote a post from anybody i will continue to call out what i believe to be wrong and point that out. But you do have the option not to reply which i am fine with.
What you need to understand is you cannot make claims and not expect people with differing opinions not to reply. If an opinion different to yours is giving you issue's the maybe the internet forums are not for you.
And stop playing the harassing card as that just childish and there is nothing in my posts that have been harassing and im only pointing out your comments relating to football.
* No Need to reply if you dont wish
I like a person who sticks to their guns when they are wrong.
Does it.
He has been playing higher up the ground as MRJ is not the pressure forward.
Castagna is pretty free to roam up to the wing and back.
George doesn't get a mention in this list on in any department, not even pressure points.
The numbers don't stack up, but we are winning so he is getting a gig.
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Please stop. for the love of god, stop.
What i want you to do, is stop & leave me the * alone
I am seriously starting to get concerned at this. It's starting to come across that you are just obsessed with trying to bait me.
It's an absolute disgrace that the Bigfooty website is allowing this to happen tbh - i've asked politely for you to just leave me alone over 30 times - its literally witnessed by hundreds, in writing. Yet you refuse & claim i an childish?
What I am doing is what you are meant to do if you stop wanting someone to engage with you - communicate it clearly & in writing.
PLEASE. STOP. QUOTING. ME.
Morro
Brownlow Medallist
The irony eh eh eh
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Seems to be the common view among players too
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