Roast 18 years of no Grand Final appearances - proven finals failures

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We used 29 but there were some token ones:
VB 3, O'Brien 2, CEY 2, Knight 1

Really it was just the 22 from the semi plus Seedsman, Henderson and Milera

 

[Red mist]

Doggies are a useful contradiction to the Crows.

I am not sure how many they used on their list, but they certainly tested it's depth. They made the hard calls. Dropped Stringer despite being ravaged with injury, they've done the same with Boyd in the past. It hasn't always been by choice, but they've tested their list nonetheless. They actually benefitted from the injuries they had during the year.

I am not sure how many we used (less than 30?), but we backed the same squad week in, week out. Struggled to make the hard call and that combined with our healthy list means we didn't test our depth at all. This hurt us come finals.

Easy to say in hindsight that we should have used more players, especially when we were fighting for a position on the ladder every week, but there would have to be players in that dogs 22 on GF day that wouldn't be there if not for the way they've used their squad this year (whether by choice or not).

They have used 39

 

[SmegHead]

We used 29 but there were some token ones:
VB 3, O'Brien 2, CEY 2, Knight 1

Really it was just the 22 from the semi plus Seedsman, Henderson and Milera

Gov.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Gov.

He played in the semi

 

[Elite Crow]

Doggies are a useful contradiction to the Crows.

I am not sure how many they used on their list, but they certainly tested it's depth. They made the hard calls. Dropped Stringer despite being ravaged with injury, they've done the same with Boyd in the past. It hasn't always been by choice, but they've tested their list nonetheless. They actually benefitted from the injuries they had during the year.

I am not sure how many we used (less than 30?), but we backed the same squad week in, week out. Struggled to make the hard call and that combined with our healthy list means we didn't test our depth at all. This hurt us come finals.

Easy to say in hindsight that we should have used more players, especially when we were fighting for a position on the ladder every week, but there would have to be players in that dogs 22 on GF day that wouldn't be there if not for the way they've used their squad this year (whether by choice or not).

Agreed. As we saw in the final against the Swans you don't know when you are going to cop injuries.

Now assuming we got through, who would we have brought in for Lever and Talia? Except for Henderson who himself was carrying an Achilles, we had no one to bring in with afl exposure this year.

We were too scared to not play Jenkins because again we had no options. Sure Obrien played two games but that would mean playing two rucks which we didn't try all year.

What if one of our inside mids got injured? With CEY himself injured we had no one to bring in. Sure we could have brought in Douglas and moved someone up forward, but who? Milera hadn't played for 5 months. Knight and Menzel nothing.

We missed opportunities to make subtle changes during the year but were too scared or we lacked foresight.

 

[Iron]

Doggies are a useful contradiction to the Crows.

I am not sure how many they used on their list, but they certainly tested it's depth. They made the hard calls. Dropped Stringer despite being ravaged with injury, they've done the same with Boyd in the past. It hasn't always been by choice, but they've tested their list nonetheless. They actually benefitted from the injuries they had during the year.

I am not sure how many we used (less than 30?), but we backed the same squad week in, week out. Struggled to make the hard call and that combined with our healthy list means we didn't test our depth at all. This hurt us come finals.

Easy to say in hindsight that we should have used more players, especially when we were fighting for a position on the ladder every week, but there would have to be players in that dogs 22 on GF day that wouldn't be there if not for the way they've used their squad this year (whether by choice or not).

The stringer call didn't really do much in the end though. Yes it was a tough call but he still doesn't really deserve his spot at the moment.

 

[1970crow]

They finished 7th allowing them to miss Sydney until the GF. We don't know if the Crows would have gone further if they didn't have to face the top side week 2 of the finals.

Geez we do cop the raw end all the time don't we? If only we'd missed the team who was thrashed by a team that just got beaten at home by the 7th ranked Bulldogs. And the Dogs got lucky too, faced an easybeat in West Coast away, who doesn't beat them? Then they played the fading Hawks at the MCG. Plus they had a great run with injuries and had great continuity leading into the finals, only needing to make the 5 unforced changes in week 1.

It's just bloody fallen in their lap godammit. It's just not fair, I mean Dougie, Mackay and Thommo returned to form in those thrashings against Freo, Brisbane and Essendon. How could we possibly know that their form wouldn't hold up when we played a team who brings pressure.

 

[1970crow]

They have used 39

Well, they're screwed then. Smarter blokes than us, Campo specifically, have stated that continuity is critical. More important than actual form or ability. Feel for the Dogs, they've been my second favourite side for ages, must have been a long and terrible season. But they'd be enjoying some time off now and will hopefully get that players used number below 30 next year and have a decent crack at it.

 

[SmegHead]

He played in the semi

Soz, thought you were discussing the change in team from last year.

 

[arrowman]

do you think that Don Pyke's game plan is the correct way to play to win finals? From the outside looking in i would say he relies to much on transition play. Throughout the year this allowed you to kick some big scores but when the heat was really applied against the top teams in finals the pin point passing from the backline disappeared and that made the forwards useless with either turn over not getting the ball into the forward line or kicks under pressure playing into the hands of the defence. The question is do you play the same style and say you will get better with disposal next year or do you say that style let us down and we should try a different style.

Fair comment. I think we showed at times (GWS, Sydney @ AO) that we were able to change it up without losing our basic style, but that was the exception and we certainly didn't manage it in the SF. I'm hoping The Don will be able to tweak it again without a massive change - and the players will learn, too. Our Plan A with extra grunt/heart is good enough, in fact it's great, but coach and players need to bring it more often.

 

[1970crow]

do you think that Don Pyke's game plan is the correct way to play to win finals? From the outside looking in i would say he relies to much on transition play. Throughout the year this allowed you to kick some big scores but when the heat was really applied against the top teams in finals the pin point passing from the backline disappeared and that made the forwards useless with either turn over not getting the ball into the forward line or kicks under pressure playing into the hands of the defence. The question is do you play the same style and say you will get better with disposal next year or do you say that style let us down and we should try a different style.

Nothing works when your giving up clean and unpressured ball out of stoppages and in transition in general play. Our clearances are hacks under pressure and our opponents the opposite. It starts where we have a bloke playing 80% TOG for 19 worthless possessions that is only capable of jogging from stoppage to stoppage. We're severely hamstrung from the get go.

 

[Slippery Pete]

4 Prelim final losses
4 semi final losses
3 elimination final losses
Missed finals 7 times

Haven't won 2 finals in a row since 1998. That is a shocking stat. When is this club going to finally stop being mentally weak during finals and actually make a GF? Good win last week - against a team that had won 3 games in 4 months. Come out against the Swans and get absolutely slaughtered from the get-go in a do or die semi final.

We all love the club but facts are facts - we fail in finals. Sugar coat it all you want but year after year after year we fail when it matters most.

I noticed an interesting thing on Friday night. A few of those Geelong premiership players (not all, but a few) were not really hurting after that loss to Sydney. When you overdose on success very early in your career I imagine it does give you a feeling of satiety for the rest of your playing days. The finals losses still grate, of course, but they don't really hurt like they should.

Selwood and Bartel aren't waking up this morning with that sinking feeling you get when an opportunity has gone begging.

The old guard that played in those 97/98 flags and then carried our team for the next decade or so were in this boat, especially during the Ayres era.

I heard Goodwin admit once that the club coasted off those flags for a good 7 or 8 years afterwards.

What does this have to do with now?

When you lose a lot of finals, you create a losing finals culture, and it's very difficult to reverse. We created a losing finals culture in the Ayres and Craig era and we've never been able to successfully reverse it.

P.S - Geelong's finals record since their last flag: Two wins from eight finals.

 

[Anzacpaul]

do you think that Don Pyke's game plan is the correct way to play to win finals? From the outside looking in i would say he relies to much on transition play. Throughout the year this allowed you to kick some big scores but when the heat was really applied against the top teams in finals the pin point passing from the backline disappeared and that made the forwards useless with either turn over not getting the ball into the forward line or kicks under pressure playing into the hands of the defence. The question is do you play the same style and say you will get better with disposal next year or do you say that style let us down and we should try a different style.

I agree with this, our A game is awesome and a joy to watch, but once we're shut down through the middle and have to play good old fashioned tough footy, we really struggle.

 

[BACCS]

Well, we've done absolutely nothing this year, to improve our chances for next year.

No forward thinking; no getting games into younger players to prepare for a real tilt next year - just picking our perceived best 22 every week, and hoping it'll be enough.

I think you have a pretty simplistic attitude towards things Kingy. If you think the club has made no improvements this year, I'm not sure what I could say to convince you otherwise because it just seems like pure crap to me.

 

[BACCS]

The stringer call didn't really do much in the end though. Yes it was a tough call but he still doesn't really deserve his spot at the moment.

They also dropped him for games against two of the worst sides in the comp.

 

[Tex200]

I think you have a pretty simplistic attitude towards things Kingy. If you think the club has made no improvements this year, I'm not sure what I could say to convince you otherwise because it just seems like pure crap to me.

The extent to which we have stood still this year is just so stark surely even you can see that

 

[BACCS]

They haven't been favourites in any game they've played yet have smacked all 3, including 2 interstate trips. Let's not pretend the Crows would've won any of those games.

The Crows beat 2 of those sides this year, and came very close to the Hawks. Why would we have not won any of those games? I could easily mount an argument that we would've, as you could for the opposite, it's a pointless hypothetical to even consider.

 

[George 13]

They also dropped him for games against two of the worst sides in the comp.

Which made the decision even smarter IMO, Less chance for WB to lose because it was against lesser team's. at the same time give's Stringer the kick in the pant's he needed.

 

[BACCS]

The extent to which we have stood still this year is just so stark surely even you can see that

I truly believe injuries to the likes of Menzel, Hampton, Knight and the likes early on are why we didn't rotate more players through the side. Once these guys were fit our AFL side was on a huge winning streak and it's hard to change that. I think people expecting the same 22 will just roll out again next season are way off the mark. Do you really think Pyke hasn't realised some changes need to be made to improve? However, he would also realise this team still won 17 games for the season, so it's more fine tuning rather than a full scale reset.

 

[BACCS]

Which made the decision even smarter IMO, Less chance for WB to lose because it was against lesser team's. at the same time give's Stringer the kick in the pant's he needed.

Cool, I highly doubt he would've done it if they had our last 2 games to finish the season.

 

[Tex200]

I truly believe injuries to the likes of Menzel, Hampton, Knight and the likes early on are why we didn't rotate more players through the side. Once these guys were fit our AFL side was on a huge winning streak and it's hard to change that. I think people expecting the same 22 will just roll out again next season are way off the mark. Do you really think Pyke hasn't realised some changes need to be made to improve? However, he would also realise this team still won 17 games for the season, so it's more fine tuning rather than a full scale reset.

I think Pykes biggest failing this year was obviously forgetting to watch a replay of last years Semi.

That surely must be the only excuse for playing the same players and expecting a different result.

He was clearly seduced by the great minor round form, and he follows a long line of AFC coached to suffer the same fate.

 

[BACCS]

I think Pykes biggest failing this year was obviously forgetting to watch a replay of last years Semi.

That surely must be the only excuse for playing the same players and expecting a different result.

He was clearly seduced by the great minor round form, and he follows a long line of AFC coached to suffer the same fate.

Playing the same players? Even you know that isn't true. Last years semi is hardly comparable given the circumstances surrounding 2015.

If you were coaching, how could you not back in guys who have won 16 games during the regular season? I think he would have loved to pick Menzel, Hampton, Knight and even the Seed on more occasions this year, but injuries and good form with the AFL side made that tough. Walshy always thought this list would contend by 2017, I believe that will ring true.

I'm very happy with the list, and am hopeful we can land a decent midfielder either via trading or the draft. If we don't make top 4 next season it will be a failure, no doubt about it. I think top 2 should be very much expected.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Top 4 is not a given especially if Sydney and gws are gifted top end talent via their zones. The life of an afl golden child - must be tough.

 

[1970crow]

They also dropped him for games against two of the worst sides in the comp.

It's still a message to him and his teammates. It's a step ahead of us. We use those games to run out of form seniors into form and then wonder where it goes wrong when a hungry Eagles turn up to play.

 

[DD#23]

The stringer call didn't really do much in the end though. Yes it was a tough call but he still doesn't really deserve his spot at the moment.

Stringer is twice as talented as someone like Douglas or Mackay though and still learning his own game. You can afford a few of those in your side every now and then, even if they're not in career best form because they have UPSIDE.