Delisted #19: Kobe Mutch - Not offered a contract for 2021

[blitzer]

We definitely need to add some more hard runners to our AFL side in the future. I think Mutch will be an important addition to our midfield.

I'm not sure he will be best 22 from round 1 as some have suggested (I'd love it if he was) but I think he might be the depth option that comes in as soon as there's an opening due to injury. I think Langford will get games ahead of him next year.

 

[footylover18]

How is it all for nought if we aim to make finals and we make finals?

because the goal should be to win Grand Finals, not make up the numbers in the Finals.

In fact, its this mentality of just trying to make Finals that has left us in mid table mediocrity for ages. You make the Finals, you get knocked out in Round 1, and you dont have a high pick to show for it. If it weren't for the ASADA saga, we'd have continue to languish in 8th-10th.

The goal should be to win Premierships, and giving games to Josh Green etc over Begeley in order to strive for Finals is not helping our goal of winning Premierships. To win premierships you gotta play your kids in order to see if they've got what it takes, and if they do, allow them to develop.

4 senior games between Mutch, Francis, Begley, Ridley is very very bad.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

because the goal should be to win Grand Finals, not make up the numbers in the Finals.

In fact, its this mentality of just trying to make Finals that has left us in mid table mediocrity for ages. You make the Finals, you get knocked out in Round 1, and you dont have a high pick to show for it. If it weren't for the ASADA saga, we'd have continue to languish in 8th-10th.

The goal should be to win Premierships, and giving games to Josh Green etc over Begeley in order to strive for Finals is not helping our goal of winning Premierships. To win premierships you gotta play your kids in order to see if they've got what it takes, and if they do, allow them to develop.

4 senior games between Mutch, Francis, Begley, Ridley is very very bad.

Ask Melbourne and Carlton how years of "just play the kids", stockpiling high draft picks and continually not making finals has developed their team culture. And really, do you seriously expect a team to go from a 14th place finish in 2015 to premiership contention in two seasons with no progress in the first year? You sound like the sort of bloke who beats his kids for bringing home anything less than an A+.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Ask Melbourne and Carlton how years of "just play the kids", stockpiling high draft picks and continually not making finals has developed their team culture. And really, do you seriously expect a team to go from a 14th place finish in 2015 to premiership contention in two seasons with no progress in the first year? You sound like the sort of bloke who beats his kids for bringing home anything less than an A+.

Richmond finished 13th in 2016 and look at them now a chance to play off in a prelim final it can be done.

 

[EnolaGay]

Richmond finished 13th in 2016 and look at them now a chance to play off in a prelim final it can be done.

Richmond were 5th in 2015 and crashed last year, they we're building from the bottom up.

 

[footylover18]

Ask Melbourne and Carlton how years of "just play the kids", stockpiling high draft picks and continually not making finals has developed their team culture. And really, do you seriously expect a team to go from a 14th place finish in 2015 to premiership contention in two seasons with no progress in the first year? You sound like the sort of bloke who beats his kids for bringing home anything less than an A+.

Lol "team culture". Good one. Tell me what that means exactly. Carlton and Dees failed to draft the right players and develop their players. Nothing to do with "culture". Don't talk s**t.

And who said anything about stockpiking kids? Sounds like you have a reading comprehension problem. Read my post again. I said we should have played some of our kids more. Not 22 games, just more.

Great we made the Finals. Go and see when the last time we actually WON a final was, let alone actually contend.

No, I do not expect us to be contending now. I expect us to be developing our next side that hopefully can contend. And in my opinion, Myers, Green, Howlett etc etc do not belong.

And finally, yes I used to get in trouble for not getting an A. And thank * my folks had those standards. Wouldn't be where I am today without it. I'm sure you got a big hug and a kiss for your participation award and I'm sure that's where we prov differ. I want to win. You are just happy to be there.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Lol "team culture". Good one. Tell me what that means exactly. Carlton and Dees failed to draft the right players and develop their players. Nothing to do with "culture". Don't talk s**t.

And who said anything about stockpiking kids? Sounds like you have a reading comprehension problem. Read my post again. I said we should have played some of our kids more. Not 22 games, just more.

Great we made the Finals. Go and see when the last time we actually WON a final was, let alone actually contend.

No, I do not expect us to be contending now. I expect us to be developing our next side that hopefully can contend. And in my opinion, Myers, Green, Howlett etc etc do not belong.

And finally, yes I used to get in trouble for not getting an A. And thank **** my folks had those standards. Wouldn't be where I am today without it. I'm sure you got a big hug and a kiss for your participation award and I'm sure that's where we prov differ. I want to win. You are just happy to be there.

By where you are to today, do you mean an angry man posting passive aggressive messages on an internet forum and moaning that your team hasn't done what no team has done before in the modern history of the AFL? You're not worth my time. Have a good one, pal.

 

[EnolaGay]

 

[Lance Uppercut]

because the goal should be to win Grand Finals, not make up the numbers in the Finals.

In fact, its this mentality of just trying to make Finals that has left us in mid table mediocrity for ages. You make the Finals, you get knocked out in Round 1, and you dont have a high pick to show for it. If it weren't for the ASADA saga, we'd have continue to languish in 8th-10th.

The goal should be to win Premierships, and giving games to Josh Green etc over Begeley in order to strive for Finals is not helping our goal of winning Premierships. To win premierships you gotta play your kids in order to see if they've got what it takes, and if they do, allow them to develop.

4 senior games between Mutch, Francis, Begley, Ridley is very very bad.

Read the post I was responding to then read mine again instead of wasting everyone's time making irrelevant replies

 

[TheGrizz]

Doss Lance Uppercut
A finals win would be a pass mark for me. This club needs to start winning. If we fail in that, then we should've spent more time giving younger guys a game.

Yes, it'll be hindsight heroics to determine that, but it is a call a coach needs to make and get right.

They don't necessarily have to play a peripheral role though. I mean how did parish's midfield minutes compare this year to last? Felt like less, and it is pretty much the point I'm driving at.

Darcy played that many midfield minutes because 3 of our 4 best midfielders the previous two years were out for a year. The WADA ban basically gave us the green light to play kids in any position we wanted as it wouldnt change the outcome half the games we played anyway. If Mutch was on our list last year he would have played too.

That extra time in the midfield helped parish develop quicker than normal. Hardly the standard case.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Richmond were 5th in 2015 and crashed last year, they we're building from the bottom up.

Its pretty much the same list that Dimma had when he arrived I think they are playing with a system rather then relying on talent.

 

[yodellinhank]

Darcy played that many midfield minutes because 3 of our 4 best midfielders the previous two years were out for a year. The WADA ban basically gave us the green light to play kids in any position we wanted as it wouldnt change the outcome half the games we played anyway. If Mutch was on our list last year he would have played too.

That extra time in the midfield helped parish develop quicker than normal. Hardly the standard case.

Then we got the players back and we forced him to take a back seat, and didn't even offer the opportunity to other young talent.

If we did that so a group of senior players can drag him over the line in a final then maybe that will have a positive effect on his development too. But if it's all been a big farewell tour that gets us no further than we've already been in this mediocre decade, we'd have been better off playing the kids in any position we wanted. That extra time would help them develop quicker than normal.

 

[Doss]

"Forcing Parish to take a back seat" is a very large rewriting of the reality of what's actually happened to Parish this year.

 

[yodellinhank]

"Forcing Parish to take a back seat" is a very large rewriting of the reality of what's actually happened to Parish this year.

What did it say before i rewrote it?

 

[Doss]

That he played a role more suitable for a player of his experience, while still taking some great strides forward.

If we'd thrown kids to the wolves this year like we were forced to last year and our results had suffered accordingly, you'd be whinging anyway. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

 

[CBombers17]

I agree it would heve been better to get more games into youngsters this season. At the same time the argument can be made that if they are good enough they will make it either way and can also develop in the seconds.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

With the retirments and delistings of some older players I expect to play kids next season.

 

[yodellinhank]

That he played a role more suitable for a player of his experience, while still taking some great strides forward.

If we'd thrown kids to the wolves this year like we were forced to last year and our results had suffered accordingly, you'd be whinging anyway. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

Mutch gets a game = thrown to the wolves?

 

[eth-dog]

because the goal should be to win Grand Finals, not make up the numbers in the Finals.

In fact, its this mentality of just trying to make Finals that has left us in mid table mediocrity for ages. You make the Finals, you get knocked out in Round 1, and you dont have a high pick to show for it. If it weren't for the ASADA saga, we'd have continue to languish in 8th-10th.

The goal should be to win Premierships, and giving games to Josh Green etc over Begeley in order to strive for Finals is not helping our goal of winning Premierships. To win premierships you gotta play your kids in order to see if they've got what it takes, and if they do, allow them to develop.

4 senior games between Mutch, Francis, Begley, Ridley is very very bad.

Whilst that's all well and good, you need to set realistic expectations year on year. The questions that need to be asked are:

1. Have we improved as a club? Yes
2. Have we gotten closer to the next flag in terms of development? Yes

Then for me that's a successful year.

 

[Doss]

Mutch gets a game = thrown to the wolves?

I wasn't talking about Mutch.

 

[Killer_Mike]

The experience Mutch has gained this year playing against men will hold him in very good stead next year. He will take a lot of confidence in the fact that he has been able to physically match men with bigger bodies and players that have been in the system far longer.

Yes, it would have been nice for him to be rewarded with a game but at the very least he knows if he has a big pre-season then he can force his way into the side next year. Nothing wrong with making these kids earn their spot.

 

[Drummer_19]

I find it hard to shout down anyone with an expectation of a finals win, given that the coaching staff have had a match selection philosophy of selecting more senior guys like Green, Howlett and Bird (stuck with Colyer all year despite some very iffy patches) over younger guys that could have been popped in and rotated a game here in and there, there should be less leeway allowed to them in the way of expectations given the route they took for the year.

I think I had us at a range of 5th - 10th coming into the year, kind of hard to project not knowing how guys would come back and we've fallen into that range of my expectations but I'm not exactly stoked with the way they favoured fringe older guys as opposed to fringe younger guys when there were multiple opportunities to give a game (to guys who were killing it in VFL, not just token games) to people who'll matter more in the long term.

 

[yodellinhank]

I wasn't talking about Mutch.

In the mutch thread?

The experience Mutch has gained this year playing against men will hold him in very good stead next year. He will take a lot of confidence in the fact that he has been able to physically match men with bigger bodies and players that have been in the system far longer.

Yes, it would have been nice for him to be rewarded with a game but at the very least he knows if he has a big pre-season then he can force his way into the side next year. Nothing wrong with making these kids earn their spot.

He knows he can force his way in like Langford did before him

 

[Killer_Mike]

In the mutch thread?

He knows he can force his way in like Langford did before him

Come on mate, Langford is in his first season as a midfielder.

I'm actually tired of the calls for him to come in as a forward and I also back the clubs call to play Jobe over him as a midfielder as we all know what we are getting with Jobe. If I could be bothered I would go through your posts because you are probably one of the many that criticise our young players when they don't meet our expectations.

You have acknowledged yourself that if we win a final then this season is a success. Can you at least celebrate the good that has come from this season rather than foreshadow what may come.

In my opinion just making a final was a win. To get three All Australians and a Rising Star winner is a huge tick. And I think most can agree our gameplan is exciting and can beat anybody on its day.

You could at least celebrate that Jobe, Stanton, Kelly and more than likely others will be retiring so they definitely won't be getting games next year (If that's what floats your boat).

A lot to look forward too.

 

[Doss]

In the mutch thread?

You mentioned Parish before and I presumed we were still discussing him.

It is the Mutch thread though, so wrong place ultimately.