Delisted #19: Kobe Mutch - Not offered a contract for 2021

[Doss]

I'm sure you two can have this discussion without the snark.

 

[Phone]

i don't agree with that doss

 

[Andronicus]

I'm sure you two can have this discussion without the snark.

Snark, contrarian nature......seems the M.O.

 

[Phone]

While your condescension is so fantastically becoming, I think I will have to trump your experience of “watching professional contact sport” and your not being able to “think of any cases” with my biomedical studies and work in sports medicine and suggest there are likely to be many other reasons.

Now while I am sure you will fall back on your default experiences if it turns out this is the case, and go with the tried and true “I told you so” your claim that Crow is being reckless is not only premature, it is also incredibly immature.
Can you point me to where he says it isn’t related to concussion? Are you aware there are plenty of other reasons a person may get headaches? Can you point me to the tests they did on Mutch where he may have shown none of your key concussion symptoms?

I hope you enjoy your internet points though.

i mean first of all it seems you're the one playing for internet points what with the cool job name drop and all (ok i'm stopping doss - and i'm sincere in saying sports medicine is a cool job)

My problem lies in with Crow's quote: “Kobe has had intermittent headaches over the last week and a half. There is no evidence of concussion, but we’d like to be conservative, because sometimes it’s difficult to work out exactly why these headaches are coming,”. Again, it just seems pointless saying the "There is no evidence of concussion" as it seems it can only come back to bite Crow and the club on the arse. There's a lot of hiding/misdirection of injures and all that when it comes to sport and most of it is pretty petty stuff, but stuff to do with the head can absolutely be kept brief and secretive. Say he's dealing with headaches and he'll return to football when ready and keep it to that, but I don't think Crow basically trying to alleviate any concussion concerns is really worth it, because, you know, this stuff is tricky, isn't it?

 

[Andronicus]

i mean first of all it seems you're the one playing for internet points what with the cool job name drop and all (ok i'm stopping doss - and i'm sincere in saying sports medicine is a cool job)

My problem lies in with Crow's quote: “Kobe has had intermittent headaches over the last week and a half. There is no evidence of concussion, but we’d like to be conservative, because sometimes it’s difficult to work out exactly why these headaches are coming,”. Again, it just seems pointless saying the "There is no evidence of concussion" as it seems it can only come back to bite Crow and the club on the arse. There's a lot of hiding/misdirection of injures and all that when it comes to sport and most of it is pretty petty stuff, but stuff to do with the head can absolutely be kept brief and secretive. Say he's dealing with headaches and he'll return to football when ready and keep it to that, but I don't think Crow basically trying to alleviate any concussion concerns is really worth it, because, you know, this stuff is tricky, isn't it?

Only mentioned because it seems you thought that watching a sport once meant you were the ultimate authority.

He at no stage said it wasn't concussion. Just said that there was no evidence. Precautionary resting would show they are not being cavalier as you seem to suggest Crow is being though.

Are you aware that headaches can be symptomatic of many things? Are you aware that there are many other indicators of concussion than headaches? I'm not privy to the results of tests that were conducted, so I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but I'd also suggest that having experience watching contact sport doesn't give someone a right to question their professional approach.

It's fun to throw stones though.

 

[Phone]

hey man I watched a sport more than once. and over that time I've seen more than a couple of concussions handled by a team that, in hindsight, seems like it could have been handled differently (admittedly mainly by NHL teams which are filled with huge jurassic idiots). I don't like it when teams start trying to ensure the fans/media there's no concussion concerns with a player which, to me, is what Crow was clearly doing in his quote. Better to say nothing so that it doesn't blow up in your faces. That's all. (But on that note, "Better to say nothing" is what I'll obey on this discussion from now on given you've got the high ground here and Doss is probably mad. Have a nice night, and I'll be keen as to read any posts you may make around this subject in the future as I'm interested in reading about this stuff)

 

[Burzum]

Andronicus could this be a result of repeated head knocks rather than a concussion? I ask this because I believe the consensus is that repeated head knocks rather than concussions are the leading cause of CTE. Can these repeated head knocks result in short-term effects too as well as long-term effects?

 

[Andronicus]

hey man I watched a sport more than once. and over that time I've seen more than a couple of concussions handled by a team that, in hindsight, seems like it could have been handled differently (admittedly mainly by NHL teams which are filled with huge jurassic idiots). I don't like it when teams start trying to ensure the fans/media there's no concussion concerns with a player which, to me, is what Crow was clearly doing in his quote. Better to say nothing so that it doesn't blow up in your faces. That's all. (But on that note, "Better to say nothing" is what I'll obey on this discussion from now on given you've got the high ground here and Doss is probably mad. Have a nice night, and I'll be keen as to read any posts you may make around this subject in the future as I'm interested in reading about this stuff)

I perhaps foolishly assumed that since your extensive posting history suggests you like taking shots at posters you disagreed with, you wouldn't mind so much if someone took exception to your use of the word "evidence" where it most certainly wasn't.

As I've said all along, it might be, but nothing you quoted suggests he has been as reckless as it seems you wanted him to be.

 

[Andronicus]

Andronicus could this be a result of repeated head knocks rather than a concussion? I ask this because I believe the consensus is that repeated head knocks rather than concussions are the leading cause of CTE. Can these repeated head knocks result in short-term effects too as well as long-term effects?

I'd say that's more likely than a concussion. Would be relying on far more than the evidence at hand to base my decision though.

Could be as simple as a hydration issue linked to kidneys too.

 

[Beerfish]

Perhaps Justin was quick to say it wasn't concussion to avoid having communications specialists start running with 'Essendon player suffering mystery headaches due to concussion' articles. If it turns out to be concussion related then so be it but why encourage that speculative s**t before they even know.

 

[Howard Moon]

maybe he just didn't want to have sex with his partner?

I have a headache

ok

I have one again

ok

you'll never guess what...

 

[Lore]

Headaches have resolved themselves, available to play (presumably VFL).

In better news for Bombers fans, young midfielder Kobe Mutch is in line to return after overcoming a long run of niggling headaches, while David Myers is back to full fitness after recovering from a minor hip strain.

“Kobe’s now been a week without a headache, he did a 13km session on the weekend, he’ll do full training (at) full contact this week and we’re expecting him to be available to play,” Crow said.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2018-06-05/skins-injury-update-rd-11

 

[Autobahn]

That game plan must be really complicated for the average brain to dissect.

 

[bombreys]

Am I foolish to think he might be a sneaky chance? Quite a like for like swap with Zakka.

 

[CBombers17]

*note to self - avoid arguments with Andronicus on all biomedical and sports science related issues.

 

[madrigal]

While your condescension is so fantastically becoming, I think I will have to trump your experience of “watching professional contact sport” and your not being able to “think of any cases” with my biomedical studies and work in sports medicine and suggest there are likely to be many other reasons.

What is your job title in the sports medicine field and how much experience do you have? What degree do you have in biomedical science?

 

[Andronicus]

What is your job title in the sports medicine field and how much experience do you have? What degree do you have in biomedical science?

Hi internet stranger that has been a member of this community for a matter of days, and I have never had any interaction with whatsoever.

Let me send you my whole work history, contact details of all of my bosses and colleagues, a copy of my uni transcript and credit card details.

 

[madrigal]

Hi internet stranger that has been a member of this community for a matter of days, and I have never had any interaction with whatsoever.

Let me send you my whole work history, contact details of all of my bosses and colleagues, a copy of my uni transcript and credit card details.

If you are going to argue from authority it seems fair to know the extent of that authority. There is a big difference between someone who recently graduated from a basic Science degree and has been a professional leg rubber for a couple of years and someone with a more specialised degree and over 10 years experience. You opened the door so obviously don't care that strangers know your field of expertise, it seems rather petty to not answer a simple question about the extent of your expertise and how long you have been in the field.

 

[Andronicus]

If you are going to argue from authority it seems fair to know the extent of that authority. There is a big difference between someone who recently graduated from a basic Science degree and has been a professional leg rubber for a couple of years and someone with a more specialised degree and over 10 years experience. You opened the door so obviously don't care that strangers know your field of expertise, it seems rather petty to not answer a simple question about the extent of your expertise and how long you have been in the field.

I have more than enough authority to say what I did.

Do you disagree with what I posted? Did I go into any great detail about my diagnosis? All I said was that headaches aren't only caused by concussions, and to doubt the word of the medical club staff is quite premature based on available evidence. Your stance suggests you think otherwise.

If anyone is asking for a diagnosis I'll provide my credentials. Until then, I'll leave you to assume whatever you want.

 

[madrigal]

I have more than enough authority to say what I did.

Do you disagree with what I posted? Did I go into any great detail about my diagnosis? All I said was that headaches aren't only caused by concussions, and to doubt the word of the medical club staff is quite premature based on available evidence. Your stance suggests you think otherwise.

If anyone is asking for a diagnosis I'll provide my credentials. Until then, I'll leave you to assume whatever you want.

You are completely wrong about my stance and that my post in any way implies a position other than citing an authority as vague as 'studied biomed and worked in sports medicine', is pretty useless, if you don't want to elaborate, don't bring it up in the first place.

You don't need any authority to say what you did. I don't need any to question you. If you don't want to interact with strangers on a public forum perhaps you should you should use the pm feature.

 

[Andronicus]

You are completely wrong about my stance and that my post in any way implies a position other than citing an authority as vague as 'studied biomed and worked in sports medicine', is pretty useless, if you don't want to elaborate, don't bring it up in the first place.

You don't need any authority to say what you did. I don't need any to question you. If you don't want to interact with strangers on a public forum perhaps you should you should use the pm feature.

Plenty here know me well enough to know I'm not speaking from a lack of experience. If anyone doesn't believe me, good for them. Not going to cost me anything.

In your time here, you don't. I'm not about to go into detail to appease a stranger. Perhaps if I was offering some sort of advice that may be acted on (which would be a daft move to say the least) I'd elaborate further.

I can say I live in WA and give an opinion on things I see over here. Does that mean I need to provide my address if someone wants further proof? I've worked in a few different fields and spoken of them in a number of places on this forum, and face to face with people I've met from here. Should we meet up I look forward to doing the same. I'll just be sure to bring some references with me to satisfy your curiosity.

 

[madrigal]

Plenty here know me well enough to know I'm not speaking from a lack of experience. If anyone doesn't believe me, good for them. Not going to cost me anything.

In your time here, you don't. I'm not about to go into detail to appease a stranger. Perhaps if I was offering some sort of advice that may be acted on (which would be a daft move to say the least) I'd elaborate further.

I can say I live in WA and give an opinion on things I see over here. Does that mean I need to provide my address if someone wants further proof? I've worked in a few different fields and spoken of them in a number of places on this forum, and face to face with people I've met from here. Should we meet up I look forward to doing the same. I'll just be sure to bring some references with me to satisfy your curiosity.

It wasn't necessarily curiosity, I was just trying to understand your post better, I think you are being a bit unfair, acknowledging that I am new here and I see two people arguing, with one claiming authority and without knowledge of reputations have asked an honest question to help me evaluate the extent of the authority you are claiming. Without that I have no way of differentiating your comment from somebody saying 'trust me, I know more about this than you'.

 

[yodellinhank]

This is giving me a headache

 

[Sporno 4 Pyros]

Interesting as to what is causing the headaches. My son (in his 20s and reasonably fit) has had headaches on and off for years whenever he goes for a run. He has been to his GP who doesn't really have any ideas, other than possible exertion induced headaches, which can be caused by lack of water or low blood sugar levels and a few other things. My son hasn't been able to work out the cause or fix it.

Has he had his wisdom teeth out? I used to get them but they stopped once I had them out. Good luck to him...hope you can find a cure.

 

[Beerfish]

It seems odd they've just stopped all of a sudden with no explanation (as far as we know) as to the cause.