Opinion 1960s - why only one premiership?

[Live in hope]

The Geelong sides of the Sixties are often referred to as entertaining and talented, with many of the greats (Farmer, Wade, Goggin, Marshall etc). The Cats finished top 4 from 1961 to 1969 (just missed in 1970) and yet only a single premiership to show for it. As a supporter from about 1974 onwards I missed this whole era, but often wondered why no more success.

Appreciate that Footy can be a fickle game and bad luck with injuries, suspension or ‘peaking’ at the wrong time plays a part, but I would be grateful for observations as whether there were themes/reasons why Geelong only won a single trophy.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

2 horrendous umpiring calls in the 1967 Grand Final which resulted in 2 goals to Richmond in the last quarter cost us that one.

 

[Drunkcat]

I don't think the players liked Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

's game plan

 

[goyoucatters]

I don't think the players liked Chris Scott's game plan

Not sure about the players, actually. But you can be sure the loudest voices on the Big Footy telegraph service absolutely hated it.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

One reason was - in the 1960s Essendon deadset owned Geelong

The big games between the 2 clubs - in fact all games between the 2 clubs - The Dons would have won 90% of them - talk about a bogey side

And as good as Geel were in the 60s - Essendon were simply better

 

[Cursed Cat]

The Geelong sides of the Sixties are often referred to as entertaining and talented, with many of the greats (Farmer, Wade, Goggin, Marshall etc). The Cats finished top 4 from 1961 to 1969 (just missed in 1970) and yet only a single premiership to show for it. As a supporter from about 1974 onwards I missed this whole era, but often wondered why no more success.

Appreciate that Footy can be a fickle game and bad luck with injuries, suspension or ‘peaking’ at the wrong time plays a part, but I would be grateful for observations as whether there were themes/reasons why Geelong only won a single trophy.

Good thread, looking forward to hearing responses from some of our veteran supporters - Goggin Our Best appreciate the response ..

Vdubs, FredLeDeux ? Thoughts/Insights?

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Good thread, looking forward to hearing responses from some of our veteran supporters - Goggin Our Best appreciate the response ..

Vdubs, FredLeDeux ? Thoughts/Insights?

The legendary John Coleman - champion high flying superstar full forward - some say the greatest player of all time - and Essendons successful coach in the 1960s ( 2 flags ) and a very fiery coach

He said - quote - We ( Essendon ) could beat Geel even if we played them in a cow paddock . He had no respect for the Cats at all - because they won 90% of the games and alot of them easily

 

[Live in hope]

My father mentioned that Cats were unlucky in preliminary final against Carlton in 1962 (apparently Wade had mark overturned late in game and we lost by less than goal).

Others mentioned that Geelong was viewed as talented but soft. Think the ‘handbag’ label was coined late Sixties.

 

[goyoucatters]

The Geelong sides of the Sixties are often referred to as entertaining and talented, with many of the greats (Farmer, Wade, Goggin, Marshall etc). The Cats finished top 4 from 1961 to 1969 (just missed in 1970) and yet only a single premiership to show for it. As a supporter from about 1974 onwards I missed this whole era, but often wondered why no more success.

Appreciate that Footy can be a fickle game and bad luck with injuries, suspension or ‘peaking’ at the wrong time plays a part, but I would be grateful for observations as whether there were themes/reasons why Geelong only won a single trophy.

Great concept for a thread, Live in hope. And the stats you've quoted here do sound all too eerily familiar for those who've been following the Cats in the last decade as well.

Perhaps it wasn't just Scott that singlehandedly destroyed the culture of our footy club in his supposedly narcissistic pursuit of being too clever by half? Seems like we could all perhaps admit that, when it comes to the Cats bottling it in the big moments, there is some degree of it being a case of 'twas ever thus'.

I haven't read enough about the era in question to really know. But did this period have some similarities to our '89-'97 years? Massive talent at the top end, with many middling to mediocre players filling out the remainder of the team. Capable of beating the best, but vulnerable to underperformance when the matchwinners were inevitably held (or missing) at different stages.

Others will have far more of importance to say than I can offer here, given I only arrived on the planet in 1971. One thing this does underline again, though, is how ridiculously good our '07-'11 incarnation was as a team. Superb group of players, virtually all the way down to the last man picked on the bench. As a result, the gap between their 'best' and their 'worst' was much narrower than what we're subjected to at the moment.

Three premierships in five years (when we've won six in the other 120 years of competing in the VFL/AFL) is just extraordinary. And, despite all the ABS ranting that our latest finals debacle has unleashed, it does demonstrate just how difficult our club has found it to be the best of the best in any given season for well over 100 years.

For better and for worse,...

We. Are. Geelong.



P.S. As has been noted earlier, Polly always said that the '67 GF was ours for the taking until the goal umpire decided to embrace the most glaring parallax error in the history of organised sport. Footage is pretty damning, in my view. Still, what have the hoops ever been to most of us without a hard luck story somewhere along the line?

 

[you pick one]

1964 Geelong chasing back to back flags preliminary final Cats 5.14.44 def by Collingwood 7.6 48, Melbourne beat Collingwood in the GF.
One that got away.

 

[FredLeDeux]

We had some great players through the 60s.

In fact, relatively speaking, you could very likely pick a side from 1960-69 to match our team from 2007-11.

But those 2 sets of periods really tell the story; we had terrific continuity in players 2007-11, but there was much less continuity 1960-69; in other words, at no stage within 1960-69 did we ever go anywhere near fielding our best side from 1960-69. This was partly because players had much shorter careers in that period - they'd go to the bush (or interstate) to cash in, or they'd go back to the farm, or they'd return to their careers, etc

Which meant that there was often a big drop from our best to our weakest players in the 1960-69 period.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

1964 Geelong chasing back to back flags preliminary final Cats 5.14.44 def by Collingwood 7.6 48, Melbourne beat Collingwood in the GF.
One that got away.

Youve got to take the good with the bad - or the good fortune compared to the bad luck

Melb late 50s early 60s were the gun team - with the 6 flags great era - and their no 1 champion player was Barassi

63 Cats win the flag - however in the last round of h/a - Barassi got 4 weeks ( missed the entire final series ) for " striking " Roger Dean 0f Rich - who was your typical 5ft nothing smart aarse staging infuriating niggling Rich player who plenty wanted to belt - and Barassi didnt even hit him - Dean just staged it

Melb and Geel only met once that year - and the Dees won easily - by about 5-6 goals - and Barassi has said with him in the team they had the Cats measure easily - so there you go - could have would have and should have

 

[you pick one]

We had some great players through the 60s.

In fact, relatively speaking, you could very likely pick a side from 1960-69 to match our team from 2007-11.

But those 2 sets of periods really tell the story; we had terrific continuity in players 2007-11, but there was much less continuity 1960-69; in other words, at no stage within 1960-69 did we ever go anywhere near fielding our best side from 1960-69. This was partly because players had much shorter careers in that period - they'd go to the bush (or interstate) to cash in, or they'd go back to the farm, or they'd return to their careers, etc

Which meant that there was often a big drop from our best to our weakest players in the 1960-69 period.

Yeah a surprising number of players were finished aged 23 or 24.

 

[FredLeDeux]

My father mentioned that Cats were unlucky in preliminary final against Carlton in 1962 (apparently Wade had mark overturned late in game and we lost by less than goal).

Others mentioned that Geelong was viewed as talented but soft. Think the ‘handbag’ label was coined late Sixties.

We were actually robbed in both the 1962 Prelims by late decisions - the draw and the replay.

 

[you pick one]

My father mentioned that Cats were unlucky in preliminary final against Carlton in 1962 (apparently Wade had mark overturned late in game and we lost by less than goal).

Others mentioned that Geelong was viewed as talented but soft. Think the ‘handbag’ label was coined late Sixties.

Wade in front got pinged for holding Barry's shorts and the way Doug was kicking that day he wasn't missing that.

 

[you pick one]

Youve got to take the good with the bad - or the good fortune compared to the bad luck

Melb late 50s early 60s were the gun team - with the 6 flags great era - and their no 1 champion player was Barassi

63 Cats win the flag - however in the last round of h/a - Barassi got 4 weeks ( missed the entire final series ) for " striking " Roger Dean 0f Rich - who was your typical 5ft nothing smart aarse staging infuriating niggling Rich player who plenty wanted to belt - and Barassi didnt even hit him - Dean just staged it

Melb and Geel only met once that year - and the Dees won easily - by about 5-6 goals - and Barassi has said with him in the team they had the Cats measure easily - so there you go - could have would have and should have

Agree on Roger Dean complete flog.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I know it kicked in only in the mid sixties and doesn't cover all of the time period concerned, but how much of an impact on the footy did the Vietnam war and its draft lottery have?

 

[Cursed Cat]

We had some great players through the 60s.

In fact, relatively speaking, you could very likely pick a side from 1960-69 to match our team from 2007-11.

But those 2 sets of periods really tell the story; we had terrific continuity in players 2007-11, but there was much less continuity 1960-69; in other words, at no stage within 1960-69 did we ever go anywhere near fielding our best side from 1960-69. This was partly because players had much shorter careers in that period - they'd go to the bush (or interstate) to cash in, or they'd go back to the farm, or they'd return to their careers, etc

Which meant that there was often a big drop from our best to our weakest players in the 1960-69 period.

Yeah a surprising number of players were finished aged 23 or 24.

I must admit I'm not quite as familiar with the ins and outs of the 60s Geelong side, apart from '63, but it's probably no surprise to mention that Geelong's legendary early 50s teams succumbed to a similar fate, with players (very understandably) pursuing $$ interstate, or in coaching, or just with old fashioned day jobs that helped support their families.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I dunno why but it seems synonymous with our club to not cash in on great teams. The early 60s team under-achieved, could (or should) have won 3 flags in the 60s.
Likewise the 50s team, probably good enough for long enough to win 3 in a row, maybe even 4.
00s team likewise.

I suppose we just kept running into kryptonate teams.

 

[Strange Cat]

I dunno why but it seems synonymous with our club to not cash in on great teams. The early 60s team under-achieved, could (or should) have won 3 flags in the 60s.
Likewise the 50s team, probably good enough for long enough to win 3 in a row, maybe even 4.
00s team likewise.

I suppose we just kept running into kryptonate teams.

Culture

 

[year of the cat]

Agree on Roger Dean complete flog.

Was good friends at school with Roger’s son. Roger was a lovely man. I was too young to see him play but heard he was as tough as nails albeit not the most highly talented player.

 

[My Tilly]

I dunno why but it seems synonymous with our club to not cash in on great teams. The early 60s team under-achieved, could (or should) have won 3 flags in the 60s.
Likewise the 50s team, probably good enough for long enough to win 3 in a row, maybe even 4.
00s team likewise.

I suppose we just kept running into kryptonate teams.

We are underachievers.
That 1960's team, by all accounts, should have won two, at least three flags. Take a look at the names listed in that 60's side. A dynasty of generational talent.

It is why the Bomber Thompson era will forever remain the most successful period in Geelong football club history. Scott takes over and replaces three from the 2010 PF team, Duncan --->Ablett, Guthrie --->Byrnes, Christensen --->West, and from 07-11, it was like very few runs in VFL/AFL history.

 

[Partridge]

P.S. As has been noted earlier, Polly always said that the '67 GF was ours for the taking until the goal umpire decided to embrace the most glaring parallax error in the history of organised sport. Footage is pretty damning, in my view. Still, what have the hoops ever been to most of us without a hard luck story somewhere along the line?

It's not that damning. Polly obviously forgot we were actually 10 points down at that point. The mark itself, it's impossible to tell. Mythology has grown to him sitting in the stands but it's pretty hard to tell. The siren goes about 30 seconds later, if that.

My own view is the same, from years of listening to older supporters. Geelong as a club and fans were content for a long, long time to be nice and finish second. You could argue some still are.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

We are underachievers.
That 1960's team, by all accounts, should have won two, at least three flags. Take a look at the names listed in that 60's side. A dynasty of generational talent.

It is why the Bomber Thompson era will forever remain the most successful period in Geelong football club history. Scott takes over and replaces three from the 2010 PF team, Duncan --->Ablett, Guthrie --->Byrnes, Christensen --->West, and from 07-11, it was like very few runs in VFL/AFL history.

That team under-achieved too I reckon, had 5 in them they were that good.
Like Strange Cat said, it's kind of our culture to under-achieve in a lot of ways.
Always towards the top, not often AT the top.
The bittersweet life of a Cats supporter lol.

 

[My Tilly]

That team under-achieved too I reckon, had 5 in them they were that good.
Like Strange Cat said, it's kind of our culture to under-achieve in a lot of ways.
Always towards the top, not often AT the top.
The bittersweet life of a Cats supporter lol.

Two grand final appearances in five seasons, shame really.

Did you see the team play?
I never saw but from speaking to people over the years, they speak of them as though we were choc filled with generational talent.

On the contrary, look at the team Geelong beat in the 1963 GF during the same period of time and they also went to two grand finals in three seasons.