1990 AFL Bid - Unanswered Questions

[GremioPower]

... I believe Abernathy writes that a sky blue was the option until he or club officials took a trip to the US...

They went to the wrong country, unfortunately. Black, white, and sky blue is an absolutely great combination!

If you desire to be the best, aim for the heavens!

 

[powermacs]

If Bucky had been at the helm instead of Weber, would he have gone “behind the scenes” and launched a surprise bid as Bruce felt he had to do, or would he have taken a less confrontational path, for example telling Oakley something like that we were all in, as long as he could bring the SANFL “with us” somehow/in done timeframe?

Bucky’s professionalism and “diplomacy” got us over the line in 1994 miles ahead of other bidders, but I just don’t think that approach would have worked for making a break out of the SANFL in the first place.

While they’re still alive I’d like to hear both Bucky’s and Max Basheer’s thoughts on *that* historical counterfactual: was there any chance of Port taking an AFL-solicited bid to the SANFL and getting it treated seriously? Ironically, someone from Port regarded by all as being of unimpeachable character like Bucky may be the just sort of person to get Max talking openly and honestly while he still has the chance to choose to do so. Or not, in which case we’ve confirmed some of the things we’ve always thought about Max, and *that* will be his legacy


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Basheer has a book ready to go for when he shuffles off.

 

[Papa G]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

 

[SgtSchulz]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

The funniest thing is that Norwood we’re working behind the scenes to join the AFL but after the media lambasted us they thought self interest was best served siding with the SANFL instead of us. Had Norwood supported us the injunction may very we’ll have produced a different result and they would likely have got in shortly after us. However they were always far to closely aligned as a club to the old Adelaide establishment to genuinely do the above.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

Spot on!

As Gary Linnell said in that 2006 Fox Footy Channel doco about the birth of the crows, the formation of the national league, "it wasn't about people coming together singing kumbaya and doing it for the betterment of the game, it was about the dough - IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE DOUGH."

 

[Portology]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

Yes but what *was* in the League’s best interest in the long term? Who setup the whole “Fortress SA” mentality via player retention schemes, etc? Who decided that our best bet was to resist inside a castle rather than to “co-operate then co-opt” from the inside?

Before and after our 1990 bid, Max chose to squeeze every last dollar out of the SANFL’s football park monopoly instead of growing the total revenue of the game by growing the game *everywhere*, which would have required him to actually work with interstate “partners”. However shaky some of them looked at the time, they controlled access to the future, not Max. And if Max couldn’t control it, with a vice like grip if needed, it wasn’t going to happen.

It was about control as much as about the dough.

It was also always about a “we should dip our beaks a little” mentality, to quote a soon-to-be-rendered-obsolete mob leader in Godfather III, on the part of the “little men” of the other SANFL clubs. Clubs surviving on transfer fees, while publicly moaning “kick a Vic”, and less publicly about having to actually find and develop players instead of just cherry picking from their monopoly zones.

For merely surviving in his paper castle made of contracts, with nothing but a “brave” bunch of pissants in it alongside him, he deserves some grudging admiration.

For the strategy and the decades long “drag” it put on football here and on SA’s culture, yes he deserves to be demonised.

For allowing the rotten smell around gate numbers to go on and on, and for allowing the ongoing catering “situation” via “partner in crime” Wee Licker, yes he deserves to be demonised.

His strategy was basically “Port can’t afford the risk of going to China because we don’t trust them”. And that’s far and away the nicest and mildest thing I can bring myself to say.

<insert picture of 1990 premiership cup nearly toppling on Max’s head>

Now there’s a historical counterfactual for you.


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[Portology]

And right on cue, my copy of "Destiny" arrives. It wasn't "fate" though. I ordered the bloody thing

 

[xflamedancer]

If we had been first, Crows would've been the perfect moniker as it's only a reasonably small change from Magpies. Plus, we could've added one of the state colours (red?) to black and white for the jumper.

Post reported

 

[raptalia]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

Thing about 1990 was the the hypocrisy of some of our opponents. Many of our biggest critics were businessmen who if they were given the opportunity to move their business from a local to a national stage would have jumped at the opportunity. Obviously the people who populated the seats in the SANFL Boardrooms did not see the AFL for what is was, a business venture with a corporate structure. Then again the SANFL misread everything else about the future of the game in Australia so I should not expect them to get that bit right.

 

[VineValerian]

In the book "Destiny" at firstbthe SANFL wouldnot put a team in anational comp because it was opposed to a $4mill licence fee.

When they blocked Port under legal process they agreed to the licence fee wth Oakley and Co, plus deposited $1.0 mill into the AFL's bank account as a sweetener to seal the deal.

When they told local delegates of the fact they had agreed to this backflip PLUS the extra cash incentive (which would come out of the local club's annual dividends) one delegates angrily challenged Max andsaid by what autbority did he have to make that decision.

The answer: "None. Next question."

Double deealing, parasites

 

[El_Scorcho]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

The horse had bolted, jumped several fences and sired a bunch of foals at that point though. The VFL was already a national league. As soon as the WAFL went in, we needed to go in as well. Blindly clinging on to the notion that the SANFL could continue as it was with Basheer and his mates in charge and lining their pockets was idiocy.

The transition from smaller state league to second tier league could have happened gracefully and in a way that helped everyone. There was no shame in losing to a much larger state's league. He could have been the driving force behind negotiating a national league that wasn't just an expanded VFL, but he had no foresight and he was a huge part of starting a bitter war in South Australian football which is still raging.

The fact that his name is on a stand at Adelaide Oval should make everyone who looks at it very angry. The Adelaide Oval upgrade should be about South Australian sport moving past 30 years of bitterness and self interest, but instead it has the king of self interest being honoured with a stand named after him.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

I'd never stake my house on my own memory but I was a member at the time and have a memory of voting to proceed with the bid to enter the afl.

There was a General meeting which I attended also, that asked for a Vote for the Port Adelaide Football Club to move to the AFL and for a SANFL side to wear our Wharf Pylon Guernseys and for thee name of the club to be the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club and maintain our place in the SANFL. The meeting had fewer members in attendance than I expected., But we voted unaimously for the PAFC to move to the AFL and for a PAMFC to take our place in the SANFL and to maintain a seamless Port Adelaide Presence in the SANFL....I am guessing that was the issue with so many Port Fans, that didn't realise that sequence of events occured.

 

[PA88]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

Basheer was too proud to concede and his pride was about to condemn two of the land's successful clubs into eternal feeder clubs and throw them in with the eight other clubs that inevitably were going to be "but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. " The blame from these clubs is misplaced because all we did is accelerate the inevitable by a small time frame. These clubs had 100+ years of failure and assumed that Norwood and Port should sink with them. They have themselves to blame as do Norwood and Basheer. How any Norwood supporter can hold Basheer in high regard is beyond me. Norwood is where Basheer wanted them to be.

 

[Us against the rest]

I've written this before, but demonizing Basheer as the root of all evil is a pretty unbalanced way of viewing the man. He was only doing what was his job, which was to protect the interests of the SANFL.

You could argue that he didnt do enough to try and establish a more equitable "national" league but the more I think about it, this was never really a possibility in reality.

The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL'S charter as leagues was to work on behalf of its member clubs. What that meant was Port Adelaide or Norwood were to be treated the same as Woodville or South. The SANFL simply couldn't let Port and Norwood leave the league and tell everyone else to suck it up. It couldn't work like that.

The leagues had to work in the best interests of their leagues and the VFL won. Port knew this to be the case and it's why they broke ranks, out of pure self interest. And thank God they did. The only club with the foresight and balls to do so.

And yes, whilst I hate how badly the SANFL treated Port post AFL entry, if you look at it from their point of view, can you blame them? We dragged them kicking and screaming into the inevitable, and they hate us for it. Because in the end, Port did the right thing by Port. The 9 other clubs are now but a pimple on the arse of the football landscape. That is why they hate us, and really, can you blame them?

Agree with most of this but over all Port did what was best for football in SA.