1st Test; Australia v Pakistan @ The Gabba November 21-25

[PhatBoy]

In Starc's career who would you consider to be a good batting line up?

India, South Africa for a large portion of it - which actually kind of highlights my point. I know he took a bag against them at Perth...... while being absolutely dismembered by Amla and De Villiers. He’s played against Pakistan sides that have included Misbah, Younis, Azhar and Shafiq.
And this is highlighted by the fact that his worst records are against India, SA, Pakistan, and NZ who have probably had the next best batting line up.

 

[PhatBoy]

So 1.5 teams out of the 8 test playing nations he's played against? Jesus!

He averages 29 or higher against the 4 best batting sides he’s come up against. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Johnson absoloutelt destroyed India and South Africa in a couple innings and has some absoloutely filthy days aswell. Starc doesn't have the same highs, he just cashes in on the tail.

Starc has 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 12.4
Johnson got 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 13.1

Johnson reminded me a bit of Richo, who was mocked by many neutrals before a strong finish redefined his career.

Yeah you could argue that his best was better, or the opposition he played against was a bit stronger, but there's not much of a difference. They both have 222 wickets after 53 Tests. Even their batting records are similar.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Good start to the summer for the Aussies, should finish the job vs Pakistan in Adelaide. I'd be picking an unchanged side given the nature of the result in Brisbane. The New Zealand series will be an extremely tough one, will be interesting to see if we win that series.

 

[Tugga27]

Starc has 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 12.4
Johnson got 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 13.1

Johnson reminded me a bit of Richo, who was mocked by many neutrals before a strong finish redefined his career.

Yeah you could argue that his best was better, or the opposition he played against was a bit stronger, but there's not much of a difference. They both have 222 wickets after 53 Tests. Even their batting records are similar.

Putting stats aside, they're not in the same ball park IMO.
MJ has destroyed sides and put the fear of God into the opposition.

I'm not bagging Starc, but he has never really dominated a series like MJ.
Kevin Pieterson said in his book it was the first time he saw professional cricketers
actually scared of going out to bat when going out to face MJ.

Johnny Bairstow said of Johnson "he wasn't man of the series, he was the series".

 

[Gough]

Putting stats aside, they're not in the same ball park IMO.
MJ has destroyed sides and put the fear of God into the opposition.

I'm not bagging Starc, but he has never really dominated a series like MJ.
Kevin Pieterson said in his book it was the first time he saw professional cricketers
actually scared of going out to bat when going out to face MJ.

Johnny Bairstow said of Johnson "he wasn't man of the series, he was the series".

Biggest roar I've heard was when Johnson bowled Broad fist ball after he'd spent five minutes playing sill buggers with the sightscreen. The place went ape s**t.

 

[RookiePick]

Putting stats aside, they're not in the same ball park IMO.
MJ has destroyed sides and put the fear of God into the opposition.

I'm not bagging Starc, but he has never really dominated a series like MJ.
Kevin Pieterson said in his book it was the first time he saw professional cricketers
actually scared of going out to bat when going out to face MJ.

Johnny Bairstow said of Johnson "he wasn't man of the series, he was the series".

One of my favourite cricket memories is Stu Broad coming out to bat at Adelaide and wasting 5+ minutes complaining about a shiny fitting on the sight screen and then having leg stump destroyed first ball.

Mitch was just pure fire that series. One of the most dominant series by a fast bowler I can recall - it wasn't just getting the wickets, it was a complete disintegration of an oppositions will to compete.

 

[RookiePick]

Biggest roar I've heard was when Johnson bowled Broad fist ball after he'd spent five minutes playing sill buggers with the sightscreen. The place went ape s**t.

Oh you campaigner!

 

[Topkent]

Starc has 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 12.4
Johnson got 38% of his wickets from nos. 7-11 @ 13.1

Johnson reminded me a bit of Richo, who was mocked by many neutrals before a strong finish redefined his career.

Yeah you could argue that his best was better, or the opposition he played against was a bit stronger, but there's not much of a difference. They both have 222 wickets after 53 Tests. Even their batting records are similar.

Starc has taken a 5fa on 5 occasions against the big 3, on 3 of those occasions he went for over 100 runs.

Johnson took 5fa against the big 3 on 9 occasions and hasn't gone for more than 73 in any of them.


Johnson's best was a mile better than Starcs.

 

[PhatBoy]

It’s very very easy to conjure up memories of Johnson rattling through gun batsmen. I don’t think Johnson was a great bowler but he had moments of greatness in test cricket that Starc hasn’t looked like attaining.

Without having to bother even jogging the memory I can remember him breaking Graeme Smith’s hand twice - not only the toughest cricketer I’ve seen this century but, given Warner’s away troubles, arguably the best opener of the last 15 years. He made Jaques Kallis - technically probably the best batsman of the century - look useless at Perth and in SA during a couple of memorable spells. Johnson fixed up some exceptional batsmen. Trott was a world beater and was reduced to nothing.

There may be a comparison there in terms of figures but in terms of capability and being able to match the very best opposition around, there’s no contest between Johnson and Starc

 

[Topkent]

One of my favourite cricket memories is Stu Broad coming out to bat at Adelaide and wasting 5+ minutes complaining about a shiny fitting on the sight screen and then having leg stump destroyed first ball.

Mitch was just pure fire that series. One of the most dominant series by a fast bowler I can recall - it wasn't just getting the wickets, it was a complete disintegration of an oppositions will to compete.

Exactly, might not ever see another more dominate and intimidating series from a bowler. The whole series was good to watch but he was absoloutely must watch TV. Starcs never been like that with the red ball in an important moment.

 

[Ron The Bear]

^^ OK, I'm happy enough if people rate Johnson well ahead of Starc. Worth remembering that Johnson's paralysing bursts didn't happen until he reached his 30's (Starc about to turn 30). And I still think Starc gets an unfair rap from some.

 

[PhatBoy]

Exactly, might not ever see another more dominate and intimidating series from a bowler. The whole series was good to watch but he was absoloutely must watch TV. Starcs never been like that with the red ball in an important moment.

There’s really only one I can think of that comes close but it’s brevity robbed him the chance to really cash in.
It wasn’t against the same standard opposition and it was only two tests but Steyn’s series against NZ ten years ago is the most complete domination I’ve ever seen from a bowler - 20 wickets at 9, and absolutely put the fear of god into every man he bowled to.
5, 5, 4, 6 across the four innings and bowled furiously.

 

[PhatBoy]

^^ OK, I'm happy enough if people rate Johnson well ahead of Starc. But I still think Starc gets an unfair rap from some.

He probably does, he’s not a ‘bad’ bowler by any means. But he certainly cashes in when the going is a bit easier

 

[Topkent]

^^ OK, I'm happy enough if people rate Johnson well ahead of Starc. Worth remembering that Johnson's paralysing bursts didn't happen until he reached his 30's (Starc about to turn 30). And I still think Starc gets an unfair rap from some.

Johnson took 8 for 64 against South Africa as a 27 year old.

 

[RookiePick]

There’s really only one I can think of that comes close but it’s brevity robbed him the chance to really cash in.
It wasn’t against the same standard opposition and it was only two tests but Steyn’s series against NZ ten years ago is the most complete domination I’ve ever seen from a bowler - 20 wickets at 9, and absolutely put the fear of god into every man he bowled to.
5, 5, 4, 6 across the four innings and bowled furiously.

Steyn is easily the best quick of his generation for mine. Like a peak Mitch Johnson but sustained his best cricket for a long period. Mitch was always fits and starts of brilliance, punctuating some extremely ordinary performances. Dale Steyn was a very angry man - you always felt he took the presence of the batsman on his pitch as a personal affront, a true successor to Allan Donald. Awesome to watch.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Johnson took 8 for 64 against South Africa as a 27 year old.

And was a whipping boy at 30.

Mitchell Johnson - Finished?
The Mitchell Johnson Pie Machine has been turned on again
Mitchell Johnson, please #%@! OFF!!!

 

[Topkent]

There’s really only one I can think of that comes close but it’s brevity robbed him the chance to really cash in.
It wasn’t against the same standard opposition and it was only two tests but Steyn’s series against NZ ten years ago is the most complete domination I’ve ever seen from a bowler - 20 wickets at 9, and absolutely put the fear of god into every man he bowled to.
5, 5, 4, 6 across the four innings and bowled furiously.

Steyns best lasted far longer but I'd argue that series from Johnson was as good as you will ever see from a bowler. Not just for wickets but for entertainment aswell. Never been so glued to a screen watching cricket.

 

[corbies]

^^ OK, I'm happy enough if people rate Johnson well ahead of Starc. Worth remembering that Johnson's paralysing bursts didn't happen until he reached his 30's (Starc about to turn 30). And I still think Starc gets an unfair rap from some.

Johnson was the ICC cricketer of the year at 27.

 

[Topkent]

And was a whipping boy at 30.

Mitchell Johnson - Finished?
"Johnson would be lucky to make the 3rd best West Indies team"
Mitchell Johnson, please #%@! OFF!!!

You are arguing different things.

 

[Ron The Bear]

You are arguing different things.

Not really. You're arguing that Johnson's peaks are much higher than Starc's, which was never disputed. All I'm suggesting is that Starc's overall performance to date is excellent, and his best may be ahead of him.

 

[PhatBoy]

Steyns best lasted far longer but I'd argue that series from Johnson was as good as you will ever see from a bowler. Not just for wickets but for entertainment aswell. Never been so glued to a screen watching cricket.

I think given the circumstances - an ashes series - and the presence of 3-4 fine batsmen in the Opposition camp, that series gets a tick. Steyn really only had Fleming and McCullum in the other team that would be considered class batsmen. But I’ve never been so convinced that every ball would bring a wicket as I was in that series.

Ambrose in 92-93 was the other one I thought of. 33 at 16 against Boon, Border, Jones, the Waughs

 

[Topkent]

Not really. You're arguing that Johnson's peaks are much higher than Starc's, which was never disputed. All I'm suggesting is that Starc's overall performance to date is excellent, and his best may be ahead of him.

I wouldn't say excellent at all.

Cummins yeah, Hazelwood maybe. Starc... No.

 

[RookiePick]

I think given the circumstances - an ashes series - and the presence of 3-4 fine batsmen in the Opposition camp, that series gets a tick. Steyn really only had Fleming and McCullum in the other team that would be considered class batsmen. But I’ve never been so convinced that every ball would bring a wicket as I was in that series.

Ambrose in 92-93 was the other one I thought of. 33 at 16 against Boon, Border, Jones, the Waughs

I never got the impression the Aussies were intimidated by Curtly though, he was just too good.

 

[Cuzz09]

Why would anyone wanna go and watch it? Pakistan are ******* s**t and the game was over after day 2?

The tv coverage is so good now and all/most games are live I dont even entertain the thought of going and dealing with dickheads and ridiculous prices.

Same with AFL too.

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