Autopsy 2-men down on the bench Brions spank Dogs 108-67

[dogwatch]

Hats off to Anthony Scott for battling it out with Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

but he was always going to get a hiding. It was either extreme optimism or arrogance to think that would work out. Charlie is a class act and was THE key difference when they were getting their run on.

However as others have said (and I said earlier in the week) Scott is not an accomplished defender. He might become one some day but he needs to learn that craft in the VFL if that's going to happen, not against an AA forward who has different physical attributes (like speed and agility) not to mention smarts.

To Scott's credit he had a couple of good one-on-one wins against Cameron late in the game but the damage had been done by then.

I wouldn't be rushing to drop Scott though. He is far from the first defender to have been pantsed by Cameron. Scott has been very serviceable this year and is among the best of our much-maligned "bottom six". Instead I'd be rushing to put him back on the wing or HFF.

 

[doggies ftw]

We set up the ground brilliantly 20-40m in front of the bloke with the ball, zone is just about impenetrable in that range.

It’s just too bad that the average AFL player can kick further than 40m and we completely refuse to defend space out the back so it’s not exactly hard to get through. Kick long to the contest, ball comes out the back and off you go

To follow up on this, watch how teams like Melbourne and Freo defend - you think they give a s**t if you hit a couple of loose 20m targets at half back. Nope. They’re set up to defend the defensive 50. They focus on setting up behind the ball, which would make sense for us to do to considering all our good ball movement comes from half back in handball chains, and our defence sucks one on one.

Stop the forward press, it does not suit our game one bit. Set up the backline deep so they can’t go over the back and we always have numbers to help out in the contest, then bring it to ground - back our gun mids to win the contest and then slingshot from half back with our run and carry - and then hit up our athletic leading targets who Naughton aside can’t win a one on one

What good does locking the ball into the forward half do when literally all our scoring opportunities come from quick ball movement and handball chains off half back? We do not have the personnel to score from repeat entries, we only score from quick ball movement, so why focus on repeat entries for nothing and allow ourselves to get cut up the other way?

Our defensive and offensive systems go completely against each other.

Push defence super aggressively high, but concede space to the bloke with the ball? What? How does that make sense?

Rely on midfield dominance to the extent of needing to push an extra to the stoppage, but concede the ruck?

Main forward entry method is deep long entries, but allow a spare defender at all times to cut them off?

There’s zero cohesion to what we’re trying to do, and that starts at the top

 

[goodcop badcop]

With the quality in our midfield why do we need to roll an extra up to the stoppage?

Did we do this much in this game? Genuine question. I noticed Gardner was loose a fair bit, but he failed to have a positive impact. In fact, he completely botched an intercept mark which resulted in a goal.

 

[Dogsman16]

To follow up on this, watch how teams like Melbourne and Freo defend - you think they give a s**t if you hit a couple of loose 20m targets at half back. Nope. They’re set up to defend the defensive 50. They focus on setting up behind the ball, which would make sense for us to do to considering all our good ball movement comes from half back in handball chains, and our defence sucks one on one.

Stop the forward press, it does not suit our game one bit. Set up the backline deep so they can’t go over the back and we always have numbers to help out in the contest, then bring it to ground - back our gun mids to win the contest and then slingshot from half back with our run and carry.

What good does locking the ball into the forward half do when literally all our scoring opportunities come from quick ball movement and handball chains off half back?

Our defensive and offensive systems go completely against each other.

Push defence super aggressively high, but concede space to the bloke with the ball? What? How does that make sense?

Rely on midfield dominance to the extent of needing to push an extra to the stoppage, but concede the ruck?

Main forward entry method is deep long entries, but allow a spare defender at all times to cut them off?

There’s zero cohesion to what we’re trying to do, and that starts at the top

Yep this is genuinely insane. It totally contradicts the whole structure.

I'd rather go the other way and press up and actually man the mark properly. Close down time and space. But pressing up but then allowing them time to have a picnic whilst they dispose of the ball is just bizarre.

 

[dogwatch]

A few words on Jamarra. (I hope you're paying attention DM. )

This was a performance that stood out tonight. Not because he was among our best handful of players (he wasn't) not because he kicked goals (he didn't) but because he continued to strive hard when things were going against us. Because he took plenty of marks and (more than just the 2 CMs he was credited with, to my eye). Because his timing and leads were good. Because his hands were sticky. Because he continued to find something in the latter part of the game when earlier in his career that's been when he disappeared. Because he appears to be building strength and confidence in his body at this level (and there aren't many tougher teams to play at the moment, especially on their own turf).

The obvious criticisms are that he missed two gettable shots and perhaps that his ground skills weren't on show tonight.

He showed that he's going to be a very useful footballer. We just have to stop thinking of him as a certain future champion because he went at pick #1. Give him more time to develop. Let him be what he will be ... and I'm confident we will end up being very happy with the result.

 

[Dogs Rule]

A few things I'm done with:

* The half a dozen below VFL standard players we pick in our 22

* The forward half conversion and accuracy - at first it was a mild annoyance, now it's a farce and symbolic of the s***ness of the team right now

* The backline. Apart from Keath - inept.

* Beveridge playing favourites with his type of players. Over it. Time for the club to act.

* The President. How about concentrating on our club rather than throwing your hat in the ring for AFL CEO? If you're not interested in leading our club properly, get out of the way and let somebody else do it. We don't want or need a half arsed President.

Like a scraggly old rose bush at the end of winter, time to cut the deadwood, no matter who that is (Coach included).

 

[Relic Dog]

Did we do this much in this game? Genuine question. I noticed Gardner was loose a fair bit, but he failed to have a positive impact. In fact, he completely botched an intercept mark which resulted in a goal.

go back and watch replays ...its the norm

 

[goodcop badcop]

go back and watch replays ...its the norm

It's the norm when Daniel is in the team as he can rip through the opposition with his ball use. I'm not so sure in this game, Gardner was loose a number of times...

 

[lateniter]

Early in the game a Brisbane player ran in front of a Dogs player about to take a kick.
The umpires called play on when it should have been 50 and a shot from 20 out.
I replayed it to make sure I wasn't dreaming.
The TV copped quite a spray and my wife left the room.

 

[Relic Dog]

It's the norm when Daniel is in the team as he can rip through the opposition with his ball use. I'm not so sure in this game, Gardner was loose a number of times...

i was referring to gardner not having impact on contests

 

[doggies ftw]

It's the norm when Daniel is in the team as he can rip through the opposition with his ball use. I'm not so sure in this game, Gardner was loose a number of times...

It’s more the forward we push up, Weightman quite a lot tonight & West, JJ - it’s why we’re pretty much always out numbered going inside 50

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Bizzare really. The more inside 50's we have the more the opposition are going to score. We really are terrible with our forward entries resulting in the opposition getting possession and transition the ball forward either by risk free short kicks to free players or longer kicks to unattended players who then hit targets easily. Do not know if it is payers on the park at present, not working hard enough, or poor game plan and structure.

I suspect it is a bit of all the above and until we improve in these areas we will continue to get beaten by the better teams.

 

[ossie_21]

wasn’t able to watch the game tonight and won’t watch the “highlights” of a 7-goal loss outside of short clips on social media.

But what the * was with that Hipwood goal after pushing his opponent into the ******* umpire and able to take an uncontested mark?

 

[Leon]

Anthony Scott on Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

was a poor match up.

Yes, we were dealt a bad hand with Duryea and Richards out, and yes, Cameron is a fantastic player.

But Scott cannot play as a defender on a player like Cameron.

Crozier should have been on him from the start, or at least when Cameron started cutting loose.

Scott did the best he could, but this match up cost us dearly.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Anthony Scott on Charlie Cameron was a poor match up.

Yes, we were dealt a bad hand with Duryea and Richards out, and yes, Cameron is a fantastic player.

But Scott cannot play as a defender on a player like Cameron.

Crozier should have been on him from the start, or at least when Cameron started cutting loose.

Scott did the best he could, but this match up cost us dearly.

Again, it just shows how poor we are on match day tactics. Shocking.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

So... I didn't get to watch the game tonight due to work commitments.

What you guys are saying is, don't go back and re-watch it yeah?

 

[Dogs Rule]

So... I didn't get to watch the game tonight due to work commitments.

What you guys are saying is, don't go back and re-watch it yeah?

Not unless you want to replace your current TV.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Not unless you want to replace your current TV.

Hmm.. That bad huh? Yeah I think a hard pass on that.

 

[dogwatch]

Bizzare really. The more inside 50's we have the more the opposition are going to score. We really are terrible with our forward entries resulting in the opposition getting possession and transition the ball forward either by risk free short kicks to free players or longer kicks to unattended players who then hit targets easily. Do know if it is payers on the park at present, not working hard enough, or poor game plan and structure.

I suspect it is a bit of all the above and until we improve in these areas we will continue to get beaten by the better teams.

So here's an idea. Get fewer i50s and we win.

Right?

 

[Dogs Rule]

So here's an idea. Get fewer i50s and we win.

Right?

Hmm. I get the feeling if we had so 50 inside 50s for a match, 28 would be waltzed out by our opponents, three would be goals, 13 would be points (four posters) and four would be OOF. Meanwhile our opponents would have 60 inside 50s and score 18 goals 12.

 

[the dog's kennel]

So how many weeks for Hipwood. That feels like a constructive thing to discuss.

I think it should be 3 or 4. I think it will be zero - not even a fine.

Umpire contact penalties have gone out of style.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Cameron looked like 2015 Jake Stringer

25

Jake Stringer

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.8

5star

D

8.5

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.5

1star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

4star

G

2.5

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

in that 3rd quarter. Hate that it was against us but it was beautiful nonetheless.

I have to say I wasn't impressed. He has one trick - push the defender and then run. Although he has good goal accuracy on the run.

I'm not angry at Scott stinking it up against him. He tried his best. But he just isn't a defender. Duryea would have owned Cameron just like he did last time. It was very frustrating watching his borderline illegal pushes over and over again, after the endless soft frees paid to the Lions in the 2nd Q. But the truth is he tends to push in the side - none of them (Cameron's pushes or the frees paid against us in Q2) were frees in my book.

I had to keep reminding myself that that wasn't why we were losing though - the Lions scored the same number of points in the same kind of ways as our previous opponents had. Our problem was our forward efficiency - in particular our kicks inside 50, which were abominable. Our defence is comedy capers - and particularly so last night. But our forward efficiency was worse.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Absolutely no chance, Ryan Gardner's record is completely unassailable.

I know this isn't a constructive discussion to have, especially about two players who are genuinely trying their best, but Gardner has plenty of decent moments. He finds himself under the pump a lot in our backline, and yes - he makes a few mistakes a game. But there are plenty of times when he does OK too. If he was our 3rd tall defender I think he would do the job just fine - we are just asking too much of him in our current team structure (see Lewis Young). Whereas I feel like McComb is very rarely not out of his depth under any circumstances. I honestly thought the much-vilified Honeychurch offered more. McComb's decision-making under pressure in particular is just so poor.

I want to emphasise that I don't blame the guy - he seems like a good honest trier to me. It's not his fault he is placed in positions he is struggling to deal with. And sometimes he is undoubtedly the best available option we have, with injuries. But I think Bevo picks him too often (I wouldn't have picked him for a single game over Rhylee West for example). And I think he is the most glaring symbol of our lack of depth. I hope in future we don't need to pick him and he has a constructive career in either the VFL or with a club in a different part of their cycle, like say North.

 

[the dog's kennel]

We cannot afford to have 5 to 7 of our best 22 out as the depth replacing those out is inadequate.

The main disappointment is this.year is wide open and it is highly unlikely we will be anywhere near it when the whips are cracking.

We do not need a full overhaul just a genuine concentration on upgrading where we need for the AFL and ensuring the right structures for development in the VFL.

It is nit as bad as some are making out here but we are not winning anything this year but are not far off a genuine crack next year by addressing the issues above

I agree - although I fear that every year from 2021 onwards our midfield will become a little less dominant and so we are chasing a receding target with the rest of our team. We're going to need a good off-season and some good luck to be a realistic chance next year I suspect.

 

[Hobdog]

I’ve mentioned it before but I honestly wonder if Keath is just plain knackered from becoming a new Dad? I’m now 20 months into it and still knackered. Knocks some people around more than others and that can include cognition and the ability to perform at your best. Just a theory…


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