Autopsy 2-men down on the bench Brions spank Dogs 108-67

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Struggle

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 9, 2014
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Can anyone here name a good defender that Beveridge has developed in his entire time with the Dogs? He brings in half good defenders from other teams. As evidence by tonight Dale is a pretty horrible defender and seems to believe that his entire existence is to get kicks. 2 or 3 years ago Williams looked like he would be very good, but has gone backwards. There would not be another coach in the comp that has struggled so much to develop one area of the ground. Hopefully Ed Richards will become that player.

Amazing at developing ball winning midfielders, but pretty terrible developing and creating great one on one defenders. Pretty sure that is the problem right there.
Matthew Boyd
 

Dog 36

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At least after a poor performance forward last night Bev has the excuse to revert to his preferred structure next week, out Marra and Schache for Garcia & McNeil

That's exactly where my mind went.

Bev now has a reason/excuse to revert back to smaller forward line and hoping Naughton does it all.

I would play JUH, Schache, West, Cody, Naughton in the forward line for rest of season regardless of results and try get some continuity and see how things work with an eye on 2023.
 

Libbaaaa

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The lack of fight is what disappointed me the most, 15 goals to 5 after we had broken away a bit early in the second is pathetic against a team down their 2 most senior players. The stats say our midfield won the battle but I wonder how much of that is from the first 35 minutes of game time. By the middle of the third Brissy were having their way with any 50/50 contest. Bloody Lincoln McCarthy was taking CBA's and winning contested ball from the Bont.

EDIT: Now I just see the BS Bevo's Brief email, "We'll learn from it". Sigh he has lost me completely as a matchday operator.
 

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Dog 36

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Few regulars used last nights game to pot Sweet, don’t think he was bad at all - 8 score involvements and 2 GAs from his 11 touches and was competitive in the ruck against a big seasoned lump of a bloke. McinErny definitely had some very effective hit outs to advantage though but did a lot of his damage on Schache.

We’ve been towelled up in the ruck a LOT worse than we were last night over the past few years, hell we’ve been towelled up worse this year.

If Sweet was our only problem we would be flying.
 

GetDimmaBack

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Hats off to Anthony Scott for battling it out with Charlie Cameron but he was always going to get a hiding. It was either extreme optimism or arrogance to think that would work out. Charlie is a class act and was THE key difference when they were getting their run on.

However as others have said (and I said earlier in the week) Scott is not an accomplished defender. He might become one some day but he needs to learn that craft in the VFL if that's going to happen, not against an AA forward who has different physical attributes (like speed and agility) not to mention smarts.

To Scott's credit he had a couple of good one-on-one wins against Cameron late in the game but the damage had been done by then.

I wouldn't be rushing to drop Scott though. He is far from the first defender to have been pantsed by Cameron. Scott has been very serviceable this year and is among the best of our much-maligned "bottom six". Instead I'd be rushing to put him back on the wing or HFF.
Yeah, he was on a hiding to nothing, wasn't he? Literally thrown to the Lions.

Last week I said that JJ seemed to be the logical match up for Charlie.
I stand by that.

JJ is an experienced backman and he's quick. He may have been able to deal with Charlie's, err, ''manouevering'' tactics a bit better than Scott.
He is probably our only player that could could put genuine running pressure on a bloke like Cameron.

I expected JJ to be moved on to him during the 2nd quarter...
 

Libbaaaa

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Re: The match-up on Charlie Cameron, I agree Scott isn't to blame, tried his best and lost out a few 50/50 calls that could have been paid as frees. If you don't have the ideal match-up of speed/strength for him (as much as I hate him Dylan Grimes comes to mind) you have to sacrifice strength for speed IMO. He kicked most of his goals running away, not from set shots.
 

stefcep

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Yep and I thought front on tackles are a free kick, nope.

I noticed Gill was there watching, and not looking too impressed.

Brisbane got 7 free kicks in a row, when the game was in the balance, even Leigh Matthews was commentating on them getting the rub of the green and the home town umpiring.

We were crap, too many of our best players out and I expected us to lose, but even with our VFL players in, if we had converted those gettable goals we would have challenged.

But seriously if Brisbane think they are winning a premiership they are dreaming they were so beatable by any half decent team, teams not in the 8 would have beaten them last night.

There was another one in the third when it was 14 point game where our bloke literally got tackled around the neck, the commentator literally said he was tackled around the neck and..... it was play on.
 

immortalmike

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Let's be honest I knew we weren't going to win anything this year after round one. We played a Melbourne side who destroyed us in a Grand Final, spent the immediate moments after the game openly mocking us and the entire pre-season talking s**t about us. And then after all that build up, we got destroyed in the exact same manner as the GF. There wasn't even a decent push and shove. Just another horrendous capitulation and some handshaking after the game.

It's the same record. A bunch of good boys playing bruise free football. No leaders, nobody driving up standards and most seem content with the status quo.
 

Maverick Dog

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The lack of fight is what disappointed me the most, 15 goals to 5 after we had broken away a bit early in the second is pathetic against a team down their 2 most senior players. The stats say our midfield won the battle but I wonder how much of that is from the first 35 minutes of game time. By the middle of the third Brissy were having their way with any 50/50 contest. Bloody Lincoln McCarthy was taking CBA's and winning contested ball from the Bont.

EDIT: Now I just see the BS Bevo's Brief email, "We'll learn from it". Sigh he has lost me completely as a matchday operator.
Watched his brief and it is painful. Bevo is too stubborn to concede that our major problem is how we defend. Dees, Lions, Dockers, Cats, Swans and Tigers all have a similar defensive structure around the ground. We defend higher hoping to keep the ball inside 50. This works against average to bad teams who do not have the ability to hit targets, but DOES NOT work against good teams unless we have complete midfield dominance.

i do not believe our defenders are that bad, even TOB and Gardner would be ok if we set up better and provided more support. Bevo says we will learn and get better, but it is always the players fault they are not hitting targets, not the game plan is outdated and does not work against good teams.
 

Mr. Walker

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I would play JUH, Schache, West, Cody, Naughton in the forward line for rest of season regardless of results and try get some continuity and see how things work with an eye on 2023.
I tend to agree, and have been disappointed when Schache hasn’t been given the run of games that others have been gifted, but gee there were weak efforts from him last night. The “ non- negotiable s” our team has needs to be explained to him strongly.
Incidentally, do we have non-negotiable s and is skill level one of them?
 

Al dente

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Liam Picken, when he had 3 young babies and toddlers, used to sleep in a different part of the house the night before game day or whenever he needed extra rest. The kids were kept away. You can’t do everything.
And they can afford nannies on their salaries, no excuse bar for the first few weeks, that passage in the last where Keith ran back and dropped an uncontested chest mark, just disgraceful from your number 1 defender. Keith has been injured or shithouse all year except the Sydney game.

TOB is a very ordinary footballer. Hasnt really developed any game sense over what 9 seasons.

thought Gardy had an excellent spoiling night but did his usual pants poos on ground balls.

I reckon darcy is already an upgrade on TOB
 

stefoid

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Let's be honest I knew we weren't going to win anything this year after round one. We played a Melbourne side who destroyed us in a Grand Final, spent the immediate moments after the game openly mocking us and the entire pre-season talking s**t about us. And then after all that build up, we got destroyed in the exact same manner as the GF. There wasn't even a decent push and shove. Just another horrendous capitulation and some handshaking after the game.

It's the same record. A bunch of good boys playing bruise free football. No leaders, nobody driving up standards and most seem content with the status quo.

Theres nothing bruise free about the way we play.

We have a system problem. All our losses look the same to me - bring the ball too slowly out of defence while every player on the field pushes into our half of the ground, turn it over in an insanely crowded F50, and the ball comes back fast and direct to a wide-open opposition forward line.

Its not 2016 any more -- we need to have the courage and skills to move the ball quickly and directly out of defence to give our forwards a chance. All we got yesterday were stop and prop kicks along the boundary line - no movement through the middle of the ground, no running in support. The only players doing that were in maroon.

Missing Richards, Daniel, English and Smith is horrible for a team that has too few players that can carry and kick the ball already.
 

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immortalmike

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Theres nothing bruise free about the way we play.

We have a system problem. All our losses look the same to me - bring the ball too slowly out of defence while every player on the field pushes into our half of the ground, turn it over in an insanely crowded F50, and the ball comes back fast and direct to a wide-open opposition forward line.

Its not 2016 any more -- we need to have the courage and skills to move the ball quickly and directly out of defence to give our forwards a chance. All we got yesterday were stop and prop kicks along the boundary line - no movement through the middle of the ground, no running in support. The only players doing that were in maroon.

Missing Richards, Daniel, English and Smith is horrible for a team that has too few players that can carry and kick the ball already.
Bruise free in the way we attack the man. We play as if we're scared to hurt others.

There's obviously system issues that have been discussed thousands of times but we have no ruthlessness to our game. All the great sides have this.
 

Al dente

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Let's be honest I knew we weren't going to win anything this year after round one. We played a Melbourne side who destroyed us in a Grand Final, spent the immediate moments after the game openly mocking us and the entire pre-season talking s**t about us. And then after all that build up, we got destroyed in the exact same manner as the GF. There wasn't even a decent push and shove. Just another horrendous capitulation and some handshaking after the game.

It's the same record. A bunch of good boys playing bruise free football. No leaders, nobody driving up standards and most seem content with the status quo.
while i think thats a tad harsh Mike,

i do wish we were more physical, Geelong really played on the edge against us and it payed off. the way they cheated the playon to snap no entry zone a couple of times to great effect can be the difference between winning and losing a tight one.

we are generally too fair, we need to add some more tricks and exploit rules/ non decisions. i even notice opposition players getting that metre, half a metre forward of marks inside fifty, we never try seem to try it.
 

Proffessor

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Jan 21, 2013
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I know this isn't a constructive discussion to have, especially about two players who are genuinely trying their best, but Gardner has plenty of decent moments. He finds himself under the pump a lot in our backline, and yes - he makes a few mistakes a game. But there are plenty of times when he does OK too. If he was our 3rd tall defender I think he would do the job just fine - we are just asking too much of him in our current team structure (see Lewis Young). Whereas I feel like McComb is very rarely not out of his depth under any circumstances. I honestly thought the much-vilified Honeychurch offered more. McComb's decision-making under pressure in particular is just so poor.

I want to emphasise that I don't blame the guy - he seems like a good honest trier to me. It's not his fault he is placed in positions he is struggling to deal with. And sometimes he is undoubtedly the best available option we have, with injuries. But I think Bevo picks him too often (I wouldn't have picked him for a single game over Rhylee West for example). And I think he is the most glaring symbol of our lack of depth. I hope in future we don't need to pick him and he has a constructive career in either the VFL or with a club in a different part of their cycle, like say North.

Everyone who plays AFL football is a very talented and athletic sportsman, and the ones that play for my beloved Western Bulldogs get an additional bonus respect from me.

That being said, some players struggle with aspects of their abilities, and any weaknesses can get seriously exposed when they compete against the best at the highest level. Self-confidence or at least a players ability to control their performance anxiety often ends up being a defining factor which determines how well they perform at the top level.

Ryan Gardner clearly has considerable physical abilities, however despite his mature age, and his extended exposure in the AFL system he clearly still struggles with confidence/performance-anxiety issues. His first ~7 games were so bad he couldn't have played worse for us had he been on the payroll of the opposition club and intentionally trying to help them because of the fear that such treachery might have become so obvious that it would be exposed.

However, after receiving an unwavering and unbelievable amount of faith and patience from the Bulldogs Match Committee over an extended period of time, Ryan has been able to become more comfortable and improve his play to a point where he can perform satisfactorily as a third tall defender and/or when our midfield dominates the contest to a point where the pressure on our defence is substantially diminished.

The central problem is that the MC's ridiculous faith in Ryan means they keep over estimating his capabilities and expecting more than he has been able to deliver, to the point they have displaced Zaine Cordy, a generally superior player who has demonstrated a capability to handle more responsibility and perform on the biggest stage.

The McComb situation has shown some similarity with Gardner's. Although he hasn't quite been a Gardner level train wreck in his first season, the MC have shown an inappropriate level of faith in his ability to the point that he has displaced superior players and the overall team is probably suffering as a result.

Showing faith can be an admirable quality, but the level of faith needs to be commensurate with the potential rewards.
 
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stefoid

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Bruise free in the way we attack the man. We play as if we're scared to hurt others.

There's obviously system issues that have been discussed thousands of times but we have no ruthlessness to our game. All the great sides have this.

Cart before the horse, IMO
 

BIG_BONTS

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Aug 31, 2011
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What are our thoughts on Treloar? I just dont have any confidence in him winning a contest or disposing well under pressure. Should we be playing him to his strengths as an attacking wing?
Panics in traffic and handballs straight to the opposition. Needs to be out on the wing as a link up. Not an in and under type
 

dergert

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Jun 17, 2014
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So did Treloar get injured? If so that is another embarrassment for the strength and conditioning team.
 

dergert

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What are our thoughts on Treloar? I just dont have any confidence in him winning a contest or disposing well under pressure. Should we be playing him to his strengths as an attacking wing?
That's where he played well last year.
 

Boof09

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Sep 22, 2007
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Everyone who plays AFL football is a very talented and athletic sportsman, and the ones that play for my beloved Western Bulldogs get an additional bonus respect from me.

That being said, some players struggle with aspects of their abilities, and any weaknesses can get seriously exposed when they compete against the best at the highest level. Self-confidence or at least a players ability to control their performance anxiety often ends up being a defining factor which determines how well they perform at the top level.

Ryan Gardner clearly has considerable physical abilities, however despite his mature age, and his extended exposure in the AFL system he clearly still struggles with confidence/performance-anxiety issues. His first ~7 games were so bad he couldn't have played worse for us had he been on the payroll of the opposition club and intentionally trying to help them because of the fear that such treachery might have become so obvious that it would be exposed.

However, after receiving an unwavering and unbelievable amount of faith and patience from the Bulldogs Match Committee over an extended period of time, Ryan has been able to become more comfortable and improve his play to a point where he can perform satisfactorily as a third tall defender and/or when our midfield dominates the contest to a point where the pressure on our defence is substantially diminished.

The central problem is that the MC's ridiculous faith in Ryan means they keep over estimating his capabilities and expecting more than he has been able to deliver, to the point they have displaced Zaine Cordy, a generally superior player who has demonstrated a capability to handle more responsibility and perform on the biggest stage.

The McComb situation has shown some similarity with Gardner's. Although he hasn't quite been a Gardner level train wreck in his first season, the MC have shown an inappropriate level of faith in his ability to the point that he has displaced superior players and the overall team is probably suffering as a result.

Showing faith can be an admirable quality, but the level of faith needs to be commensurate with the potential rewards.
A very good summation of those two I would have thought
 

Freezin

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No harm in giving Darcy a crack TBH....may be young and skinny, but geez surely he would offer more and collect less stick then the likes of Gardner and O'Brien
 
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