Universal Love #2 Nathan Jones - Second All Time Games Played

demondavey

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You left Hibberd out of all options, and secondly you are moving Frost to the wing for either Omac, Petty which are not great options or playing Hore as the third tall. This also means you are requiring Lever to play as a second tall.

Agree with DemonDavey's back 7, allowing salem/fritta up the ground.
It’s time Salem shifted to the wing, he is too good a player to be a permanent defender. I am actually surprised we haven’t done it this year much.
 

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Topkent

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It’s time Salem shifted to the wing, he is too good a player to be a permanent defender. I am actually surprised we haven’t done it this year much.
Been saying this for so long. Both Fritsch and Salem should be kicking the ball inside 50 5-10 times per game. We will score far more often.

Salem as a defender doesn't stop any goals, we are using him in the wrong way
 

demondavey

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Been saying this for so long. Both Fritsch and Salem should be kicking the ball inside 50 5-10 times per game. We will score far more often.

Salem as a defender doesn't stop any goals, we are using him in the wrong way
Absolutely. You look one of the glaring issues present and it’s ball use. Why not put our best disposer of the ball on a wing in a permanent outside role? Jones needs to be a HB flanker now. He actually is doing well there. No surprise given he is all class.

Fritsch the same. Hell even put Brayshaw at HB until he can use it better.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Been saying this for so long. Both Fritsch and Salem should be kicking the ball inside 50 5-10 times per game. We will score far more often.

Salem as a defender doesn't stop any goals, we are using him in the wrong way
Every time Fritsch kicks inside 50 I STG we take a mark or kick a goal/point, it's beautiful to watch and it makes me sad every time knowing it's not permanent for some bizarre reason.
 

Topkent

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Every time Fritsch kicks inside 50 I STG we take a mark or kick a goal/point, it's beautiful to watch and it makes me sad every time knowing it's not permanent for some bizarre reason.
He always hits up a lead and he kicks it softly into the space in front of forwards. I can't stand seeing him behind the ball
 

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Been saying this for so long. Both Fritsch and Salem should be kicking the ball inside 50 5-10 times per game. We will score far more often.

Salem as a defender doesn't stop any goals, we are using him in the wrong way
I think so too. I’ve wondered whether our reluctance to move him has been associated with a certain nervousness about who has ball in hand for kick ins? If that’s the case, it’s time we rethought the strategy. We certainly have a truly diabolical history over the years with kick ins (ask Supermercado) but it’s not been a critical issue for us getting the ball out of the backline this year - its what happens after that in transition where the real comedy ensues.
 

saj_21

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Been saying this for so long. Both Fritsch and Salem should be kicking the ball inside 50 5-10 times per game. We will score far more often.

Salem as a defender doesn't stop any goals, we are using him in the wrong way
You still need a good kicker of half back otherwise the ball ain’t going any further than the wing. But agree Salem and fritta needs to be forward of centre. May is a very good kick, we’ve missed Jetta’s neat chip kicks out of the backline
 

Gysberts2Bate

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I think so too. I’ve wondered whether our reluctance to move him has been associated with a certain nervousness about who has ball in hand for kick ins? If that’s the case, it’s time we rethought the strategy. We certainly have a truly diabolical history over the years with kick ins (ask Supermercado) but it’s not been a critical issue for us getting the ball out of the backline this year - its what happens after that in transition where the real comedy ensues.
Also doesn't help that our best back 6 hasn't actually taken the field at once. Put Lever, May, Frost, Jetta and Hore on the field and you can more easily rotate either Salem or Fritsch up the ground while retaining some good kicks in defence. It's probably why we keep playing Lewis too.
 

SugarHealey

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Why change that? Change for the sake of change is unnecessary.
No, It's not. Change, is necessary.
It gives the team more robustness, in being able to play players in different parts of the ground, so If Frost was playing well on a certain player, and that player changes role, and is dangerous, we might want Frost to go with him. To maintain the hold on them.

Or we might get an in-game injury to a key player, and need to cover that position.
Versatility is imperative. We need all our players with the ability to cover off many roles, if need be.
 
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SugarHealey

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You left Hibberd out of all options, and secondly you are moving Frost to the wing for either Omac, Petty which are not great options or playing Hore as the third tall. This also means you are requiring Lever to play as a second tall.

Agree with DemonDavey's back 7, allowing salem/fritta up the ground.
I did, My mind has switched to future Melbourne teams. Draft/Recruiting mode. sorry about that. (I've just edited a couple of the lineups to show Hibbo in the thinking. since you reminded me).

I think it's because he was injured and missing many games recently. and IMM he has been off-form, for most of this season.
I don't think Hibbo will be with us, in 3 seasons time.

I'm effectively getting re-energized, about building the list further, better, stronger. Since last seasons form. And our form this first-half of season, I can see our needs in my head.

I want this rebuild, to be the One to get us there.
 
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saj_21

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I did, My mind has switched to future Melbourne teams. Draft/Recruiting mode. sorry about that. (I've just edited a couple of the lineups to show Hibbo in the thinking. since you reminded me).

I think it's because he was injured and missing many games recently. and IMM he has been off-form, for most of this season.
I don't think Hibbo will be with us, in 3 seasons time.

I'm effectively getting re-energized, about building the list further, better, stronger. Since last seasons form. And our form this first-half of season, I can see our needs in my head.

I want this rebuild, to be the One to get us there.
3 seasons is a lot of footy, and if that’s the case forget about Jones and possibly Jetta in your back 6 then.

No need to panic and rebuild, we have a good list that needs some tweaking.

I like versatility in players but don’t do it for the sake of it. You seem hell bent on cherry picking frost to the wing, yes he has great physical attributes by his has low footy IQ. He is far better when he can be behind the ball and it comes his way.
 

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demondavey

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3 seasons is a lot of footy, and if that’s the case forget about Jones and possibly Jetta in your back 6 then.

No need to panic and rebuild, we have a good list that needs some tweaking.

I like versatility in players but don’t do it for the sake of it. You seem hell bent on cherry picking frost to the wing, yes he has great physical attributes by his has low footy IQ. He is far better when he can be behind the ball and it comes his way.
Spot on
 

SugarHealey

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No need to panic and rebuild, we have a good list that needs some tweaking.
Ha, you don't know me at all. I don't panic, over matters like these.

3 seasons is a lot of footy, and if that’s the case forget about Jones and possibly Jetta in your back 6 then.
Jetta will be with us for 3, just. Jones won't.

I like versatility in players but don’t do it for the sake of it.
I disagree. The season is dusted,. so now is the perfect time to teach players differing roles. Except imo, for Frosty, as he needs to get to play and get to know his fellow defenders, more than the others need to learn about him.

You seem hell bent on cherry picking frost to the wing,
Is that the perception my writings have given you. It always amazes me how people take off on tangents, from a written team structure that differs from the norm.

I'm not hell-bent on Frosty playing wing, as I do not see him constantly playing that role, even IF I have suggested that I'd like to see him in that role, just to see how it looks. And to see the big fellow flying thru the square at pace, with a loose ball in front of him. I think it could be an option as a cameo role. If he was started on a wing, it would be playing as an extra, 'tall-defender'.
But not a full-time role for him, as he's not skillful enough. But on occasion, if it were to be seen to work, that it could be an option in the coaches playbook,. for the right matchup.
Actually he's been quite good from halfback, when the ball's gone past him, and he hustles back with pace, to help-out and halve or better, the contest.
 

Topkent

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You still need a good kicker of half back otherwise the ball ain’t going any further than the wing. But agree Salem and fritta needs to be forward of centre. May is a very good kick, we’ve missed Jetta’s neat chip kicks out of the backline
I don't agree with that, who are the elite kicks in the back half for WC, Collingwood and Geelong?
Hurn and Touhy. Pies don't really have one.

Hurn and Touhy hit 55m bullets, Salem doesn't. Salem is a beautiful 35m kicker but he's hardly creating zone killing goals on the regular. May, Lever, Jetta as kicks and Frost and Hibberd for run is plenty of attack from the back half, teams are hardly scoring from back half anymore anyway the last 11 premiers have been top 3 scores from forward half turnovers. That's where we need Salem.

Jones can easily replace Salems short corridor kicks
 

saj_21

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Ha, you don't know me at all. I don't panic, over matters like these.


Jetta will be with us for 3, just. Jones won't.


I disagree. The season is dusted,. so now is the perfect time to teach players differing roles. Except imo, for Frosty, as he needs to get to play and get to know his fellow defenders, more than the others need to learn about him.


Is that the perception my writings have given you. It always amazes me how people take off on tangents, from a written team structure that differs from the norm.

I'm not hell-bent on Frosty playing wing, as I do not see him constantly playing that role, even IF I have suggested that I'd like to see him in that role, just to see how it looks. And to see the big fellow flying thru the square at pace, with a loose ball in front of him. I think it could be an option as a cameo role. If he was started on a wing, it would be playing as an extra, 'tall-defender'.
But not a full-time role for him, as he's not skillful enough. But on occasion, if it were to be seen to work, that it could be an option in the coaches playbook,. for the right matchup.
Actually he's been quite good from halfback, when the ball's gone past him, and he hustles back with pace, to help-out and halve or better, the contest.
You are right I have no idea who you are but talking about getting this rebuild right sounds like panic to me.

Jetta is whole 6 weeks younger than Hibberd.

Season is over, doesn’t mean you just throw the magnets around considering our midfield deficiencies.

You’ve taken off on the tangent by suggesting frost could play on the wing based on nothing more than “versatility” “tall” “quick” “it would looks good running into square”

When I say frost plays better with the ball coming into him, it has less to do running back with the flow of play and more the fact he would have terrible positioning around the ground if he played through a wing.
 

saj_21

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I don't agree with that, who are the elite kicks in the back half for WC, Collingwood and Geelong?
Hurn and Touhy. Pies don't really have one.

Hurn and Touhy hit 55m bullets, Salem doesn't. Salem is a beautiful 35m kicker but he's hardly creating zone killing goals on the regular. May, Lever, Jetta as kicks and Frost and Hibberd for run is plenty of attack from the back half, teams are hardly scoring from back half anymore anyway the last 11 premiers have been top 3 scores from forward half turnovers. That's where we need Salem.

Jones can easily replace Salems short corridor kicks
Fair call, I didn’t say we needed Salem specifically in the back half but good kicks.

Completely agree with forward half game, it’s how footy is played these days. But if you’re stuck in your back half against a good side, you need good kicks. Our skill level has been horrendous this year. I’d love to see us transition more into a kicking side next year.

We’ve recruited may as a big body defender but his kicking has flown under the radar.
 

Topkent

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Fair call, I didn’t say we needed Salem specifically in the back half but good kicks.

Completely agree with forward half game, it’s how footy is played these days. But if you’re stuck in your back half against a good side, you need good kicks. Our skill level has been horrendous this year. I’d love to see us transition more into a kicking side next year.

We’ve recruited may as a big body defender but his kicking has flown under the radar.
May is a wonderful kick, even watching him weight it perfectly infront the of the ruck is a thing of beauty
 

SugarHealey

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You are right I have no idea who you are but talking about getting this rebuild right sounds like panic to me.
I'm effectively getting re-energized, about building the list further, better, stronger. Since last seasons form. And our form this first-half of season, I can see our needs in my head.
'
Why do you keep quoting me with your 'rebuild concept'. I haven't mentioned Re-Build.

I have spoken about building our list further. (see above, my words). Adding further talent, onto what I consider, a list without enough elite talent.

Season is over, doesn’t mean you just throw the magnets around considering our midfield deficiencies.
Season over doesn't mean we keep doing the same old same old. It's a time to try things, numerous things, to keep some player fresh.
to Re-freshen others. To liberate some (Fritta), maybe play him forward for more games in the backend of the season.

I'm sure we will see more of Preuss, now the season proper is over for us. So I expect to see 2 rucks for at least half of our remaining games.
I'd like to see tSmith play some time in the middle, to see how he goes inside. At some stage I want to see Jordon, Bedford, and Chandler in some games, to see where they are up to in their developments.
 
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saj_21

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I did, My mind has switched to future Melbourne teams. Draft/Recruiting mode. sorry about that. (I've just edited a couple of the lineups to show Hibbo in the thinking. since you reminded me).

I think it's because he was injured and missing many games recently. and IMM he has been off-form, for most of this season.
I don't think Hibbo will be with us, in 3 seasons time.

I'm effectively getting re-energized, about building the list further, better, stronger. Since last seasons form. And our form this first-half of season, I can see our needs in my head.

I want this rebuild, to be the One to get us there.
^^^ I read this as a rebuild but you obviously meant this rebuild started in 2014....my bad.
 

saj_21

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'
Why do you keep quoting me with your 'rebuild concept'. I haven't mentioned Re-Build.

I have spoken about building our list further. (see above, my words). Adding further talent, onto what I consider, a list without enough elite talent.


Season over doesn't mean we keep doing the same old same old. It's a time to try things, numerous things, to keep some player fresh.
to Re-freshen others. To liberate some (Fritta), maybe play him forward for more games in the backend of the season.

I'm sure we will see more of Preuss, now the season proper is over for us. So I expect to see 2 rucks for at least half of our remaining games.
I'd like to see tSmith play some time in the middle, to see how he goes inside. At some stage I want to see Jordon, Bedford, and Chandler in some games, to see where they are up to in their developments.
I disagree, season is over but there is plenty to work on without throwing the magnets around. I’m all for small changes like fritta up on a wing, or trialling preuss and Gawn. But things like tsmith in the midfield no thanks, or gifting games to youngsters who aren’t ready. A few posters on here say jordon is close on the back of his Casey form then no issues at all. But has Bedford even looked close to playing senior footy this year?

That’s my opinion, I’m not saying I’m right and you are wrong. And we aren’t heading towards 2009 levels of tanking but I’m against putting blokes on ice for the sake of it, or gifting games to youngsters who haven’t earned it through form. It takes away the competitiveness of the group.
 

demondavey

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'
Why do you keep quoting me with your 'rebuild concept'. I haven't mentioned Re-Build.

I have spoken about building our list further. (see above, my words). Adding further talent, onto what I consider, a list without enough elite talent.


Season over doesn't mean we keep doing the same old same old. It's a time to try things, numerous things, to keep some player fresh.
to Re-freshen others. To liberate some (Fritta), maybe play him forward for more games in the backend of the season.

I'm sure we will see more of Preuss, now the season proper is over for us. So I expect to see 2 rucks for at least half of our remaining games.
I'd like to see tSmith play some time in the middle, to see how he goes inside. At some stage I want to see Jordon, Bedford, and Chandler in some games, to see where they are up to in their developments.
I think you need to understand that players will play their best footy in pretty consistent positions. There’s really no point in moving anyone around bar Salem and Fritsch, purely because they can play other positions well.

Putting guys into the team (Jordan, Chandler and Bedford) just to look at them doesn’t reward form. Unless they’re banging the door down, yes, but even if we are losing I’d prefer our core group losing together, in the positions best befitting them. Elevating kids ‘just because’ rewards mediocrity if they don’t deserve it. We have to keep standards high.

Tim Smith in the middle? Mate? Come on. Bull Smith I love, but he is one thing and one thing only; an old school hit the pack hard FF or CHF. Keep him where he belongs.
 

saj_21

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I think you need to understand that players will play their best footy in pretty consistent positions. There’s really no point in moving anyone around bar Salem and Fritsch, purely because they can play other positions well.

Putting guys into the team (Jordan, Chandler and Bedford) just to look at them doesn’t reward form. Unless they’re banging the door down, yes, but even if we are losing I’d prefer our core group losing together, in the positions best befitting them. Elevating kids ‘just because’ rewards mediocrity if they don’t deserve it. We have to keep standards high.

Tim Smith in the middle? Mate? Come on. Bull Smith I love, but he is one thing and one thing only; an old school hit the pack hard FF or CHF. Keep him where he belongs.
There is a reason to try Salem and fritta on a wing, we good kicks forward of centre and they’ve played in those roles before. Just saying I’d like to see player A in position X just because I’d like to isn’t really a valid enough point.
 

demondavey

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There is a reason to try Salem and fritta on a wing, we good kicks forward of centre and they’ve played in those roles before. Just saying I’d like to see player A in position X just because I’d like to isn’t really a valid enough point.
I agree. And Salem and Fritsch should both be out of the back half and on a wing.
 

demondavey

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Right now, against the Bulldogs, I’d like to see this;

Jetta May Lever
Jones Frost Hibberd
Salem Oliver Fritsch
Harmes Weidemann Hunt
Petracca Preuss Lockhart
Gawn Viney Brayshaw
I/C Lewis, Dunkley, Hannan, ANB
 

demondavey

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SugarHealey think of Frost as like Majak Daw; elite athletic capabilities, good in a contest, elite closing speed and a pretty decent kick. What he is not is someone of high footy IQ. Playing him on a wing is effectively a midfielder. He has to think two to three steps ahead, he has to read the play, know where to go and know when to stay in and stay out. Not easy.

Like Daw, he is brilliant when led to the ball. He can exploit his one way running approach and be a far more dangerous defensive weapon. Daw failed as a ruckman and as a forward, but is competent as a defender. Frost is similar.
 
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