Yours is actually the most antagonistic tone I've seen in here the past 24 hours. The thread exists for a reason - to discuss Chris Scott. There's a lot of civil discourse, which is what I choose to focus on. I will continue to discuss him in here no matter the occasion. The same that I would Hawkins in a Hawkins thread. I fully endorse people who choose not to discuss various topics in GF week too. Hopefully mods will police where appropriate. Thanks.
Certified Legendary Thread 2 x Premiership Coach Chris Scott contracted to 2026 (aka the Chris Scott volumes
- Thread starter dazbroncos
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- Dec 11, 2009
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cats_09
Otters United
- Jun 21, 2011
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May I borrow this for use on a number of threads this week & credit you for the words...
It's such a basic suggestion, but the right ******* one at the same time
We're into the Grand Final, this is a week we should be happy & celebrating - instead it's almost turning into a bigger pissing contest than normal
How is it any different to you playfully nudging Seeds when Blicavs was nearing 6 votes? Some people are far too sensitive. The ranting and raving about people debating things (in all manners of ways - some more polite than others) makes it look like we have a lunatic fringe - some things cannot be discussed for fear of explosion.
It surely cannot be that hard to avoid a discussion if you feel you have nothing to add or the discussion is not worthy of your time. It's what the whole thread was made for and while I usually avoid it, if I have thoughts on Scott I thought this was a safe space to share them. I don't agree with people outright calling others out or insulting them, but well mannered Scott discussion is surely allowed. Which is all most are trying to do.
BlakeyNoFlakey
Brownlow Medallist
At the end of last season, after Melbourne smashed us in the prelim, I was all for Chris Scott's time at Geelong being over as quickly as possible (and I would have posted in this thread saying that a year ago). The game plan that he had persisted with for about five years just was never going to cut it in finals. Then, the club did an assistant coach clean-out at the end of last year. We had heard rumors of ruptures and fights among the senior coaching group, notably led by Scarlett against Chris Scott. Another sign (to me) Scotty's time should not be extended at the Cattery.
However, how Scotty acknowledged things needed to change internally and, with some fresh faces, came up with a new plan and ways of doing things has radically changed the club into what we see today. I think this shows what a quality coach Chris has been all along. We have seen many times in the past senior coaches sticking fat with their beliefs even in the face of overwhelming evidence they've got it wrong, having to be sacked to force a change. To be mature enough as a person to say, 'OK, it's not working, so what can we do to make it better,' is what makes Scotty a great coach.
I find him a weird guy in some ways. Just something about him says he's not your typical guy. Maybe to be a successful coach, they have to be a bit eccentric. But I want to congratulate him for doing an outstanding job this season.
However, how Scotty acknowledged things needed to change internally and, with some fresh faces, came up with a new plan and ways of doing things has radically changed the club into what we see today. I think this shows what a quality coach Chris has been all along. We have seen many times in the past senior coaches sticking fat with their beliefs even in the face of overwhelming evidence they've got it wrong, having to be sacked to force a change. To be mature enough as a person to say, 'OK, it's not working, so what can we do to make it better,' is what makes Scotty a great coach.
I find him a weird guy in some ways. Just something about him says he's not your typical guy. Maybe to be a successful coach, they have to be a bit eccentric. But I want to congratulate him for doing an outstanding job this season.
Ok. Let’s say that its the end of 2013, we’ve just lost a prelim final by a kick to the eventual premiers.
Everyone to a man, I think, unless you are just the most pessimistic person on the planet, would suggest that we still try and win the comp.
So 2014 rolls around, and we try again, and we fall a bit shorter: we bow out in straight sets and really it’s only a Hawkins run of goals that stops us being completely humiliated by North in the semi final.
So it’s accepted: we are probably not winning anything with THIS particular version of the team. Fun while it lasted, time to look ahead.
Now, fast forward to 2020.
We return to the grand final, we lose but we compete. We play a prelim final the next year, we are back in the grand final the year after that.
Now, if you offered that scenario to someone who had disappeared from the planet at the end of 2014, and they come back and six years later we have started a run of 2 GFs and a PF, they’d go ‘wow that’s a good rebuild, most teams take 8-10 years just to be competitive.
And they’d be right.
The thing is that in between, we made 3 more prelim finals, we got games into new players and finals experience into the guys that have gradually replaced the previous generation.
Did it help our trophy cabinet? Of course not. Will it in the future? Well I sure hope it does.
It’s made us a destination club, it’s ensured great membership numbers, it’s ensured we are perpetually relevant - and it was all done without having to break the bank or the spirit of the club to acquire draft picks.
On that whole score I do not see a single argument that any anti Scott poster can have about the path we have chosen.
As far as the game plan and tactical arguments go?
You’d swear blind listening to some of the crap peddled in here that all 18 clubs at any given time can win the comp if they ‘just use the right tactics.’
What garbage.
A coach’s job is to assess what resources he has at his disposal and determine how best to use them.
Given his ability to continually find ways to win while bleeding elite players for 7-8 years I THINK he has enough credits in the bank to say ‘yeah I think I know what I’m doing when it comes to working out how best to use the players I’ve got.’
If that’s good enough to win, great. If it’s not, too bad: we gave it a shot
Everyone to a man, I think, unless you are just the most pessimistic person on the planet, would suggest that we still try and win the comp.
So 2014 rolls around, and we try again, and we fall a bit shorter: we bow out in straight sets and really it’s only a Hawkins run of goals that stops us being completely humiliated by North in the semi final.
So it’s accepted: we are probably not winning anything with THIS particular version of the team. Fun while it lasted, time to look ahead.
Now, fast forward to 2020.
We return to the grand final, we lose but we compete. We play a prelim final the next year, we are back in the grand final the year after that.
Now, if you offered that scenario to someone who had disappeared from the planet at the end of 2014, and they come back and six years later we have started a run of 2 GFs and a PF, they’d go ‘wow that’s a good rebuild, most teams take 8-10 years just to be competitive.
And they’d be right.
The thing is that in between, we made 3 more prelim finals, we got games into new players and finals experience into the guys that have gradually replaced the previous generation.
Did it help our trophy cabinet? Of course not. Will it in the future? Well I sure hope it does.
It’s made us a destination club, it’s ensured great membership numbers, it’s ensured we are perpetually relevant - and it was all done without having to break the bank or the spirit of the club to acquire draft picks.
On that whole score I do not see a single argument that any anti Scott poster can have about the path we have chosen.
As far as the game plan and tactical arguments go?
You’d swear blind listening to some of the crap peddled in here that all 18 clubs at any given time can win the comp if they ‘just use the right tactics.’
What garbage.
A coach’s job is to assess what resources he has at his disposal and determine how best to use them.
Given his ability to continually find ways to win while bleeding elite players for 7-8 years I THINK he has enough credits in the bank to say ‘yeah I think I know what I’m doing when it comes to working out how best to use the players I’ve got.’
If that’s good enough to win, great. If it’s not, too bad: we gave it a shot
- Dec 11, 2009
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Good post.
I think one of your sentences is right at the heart of what a lot of people disagree with, though: I’m not picking on what you’ve said I’m just using YOUR post to highlight it.
The line ‘that gameplan doesn’t stand up in finals’ was bandied about a lot.
And it’s fine to point to results and go ‘I was right.’
But a couple of points about that:
You can have a Rolls Royce that’s running on full tilt and being driven perfectly: it’s not going to beat a formula 1 car.
Furthermore, how does ANYONE know that with the personnel available, there has been a better game plan?
Holmes, Close, Miers, De Koning, Zac Guthrie, weren’t up to the level they are producing this year. Cameron wasn’t as fit as he’s been this year. Prior to 2021 Henry was still developing, so was Parfitt.
For all we know in the last 2-3 years if we specifically aimed at the style we are playing right now, it would have blown up in our face and we’d have finished bottom four
dazbroncos
Max Rooke Appreciation Society
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POST
OF
THE
YEAR
Cant believe its GF week - we are 15 wins on the bounce, the team has played a different game and changed to suit the list and they changed the list to suit..and some "must be righters" are in here beating their chests like a bunch of ******* baboons.
Bang away but I promise you I wont be part of it and ill be damned if i'll let it detract from other experiences this week.
Dont be a selfish campaigner and wreck it for other people.
And if you do, dont expect any favours from me as you wont get it.
What you will get is banned, banned form this board and it wont be short.
GO Catters
Great, nuanced post. This is why the thread exists and discussion should be encouraged - not whinged about. Different perspectives and in some cases, people shifting their opinions over time in the light of new info.
I've had some similar hang ups to you regarding finals or "can this team actually win a premiership" over the years. Even with the old game plan and a much worse squad, 2019 and 2020 still felt close though. Last year ended up a disaster at the end. 2012-2018 was a much more concerning time for me. Block by block, it's shifted for the better since then I just think it's taken a while to get the right squad together. And some retirements in the long run have helped.
evolutionbaby
Club Legend
Really well said.
I got caught up with the disappointment of losing last year and of course you want to point fingers and play the blame game.
That's because you want to find something to rationalise your disappointment in order to somehow feel better in your own skin.
After awhile I rediscovered the word that provides clarity to finals disappointments.
It's RELATIVITY. How good you are and how far you go is down to your strengths and weaknesses relative to those of the opposition in any given year.
Yep this is essentially my view of the situation. Unfortunately we had a lot of limitations and not quite enough pace, skill and stamina in previous years to do what we do now for large blocks of games. Sometimes we'd flick the switch but it only seemed to work late in games as a hail Mary. Early in seasons a couple of times it seemed that they experimented with a riskier style and we conceded heavily, so back to a reactive and conservative approach was still our best shot (with those players). But just look at the players we've drafted or recruited the past 5 years. There's a theme.
And also the bounce of the ball...
We are so outcome dependent as fans... lose, they got it totally wrong; win, they got it all right.
You can get it wrong and win, and vice versa.
Clarkson is an immortal as a coach, Lyon is a nearly guy who wasn't ever "good enough".
If it wasn't for the massive final quarter comeback against us in the '13PF (a club record final quarter finals comeback, I believe) Clarkson was likely sacked by Kennet a lucky one time winner.
'09 and first '10 GFs could have easily gone the other way. And maybe Lyon's Freo don't fear us like they did Hawthorn in the '13 GF and get that done. And maybe the '15 PF goes their way, too.
Lyon could easily have 3 or 4, Clarkson 1 or none.
Such a huge gulf in reputation - 4 time premiership coach against 0 time nearly guy.
Yet in over 300 games coached each, their reputations are largely made in a couple of quarters of footy!
Sport is weird. And this ultimate fixation on only the premiership matters is perhaps mis-guided but also understandable.
It's great to have views from afar, but that's all they are.
Scott has done a great job no matter what happens next weekend, and is a top tier coach.
And I've myself thought he could be moved on for a "fresh voice" in the past...
evolutionbaby
Club Legend
No better example of bounce of the ball than 2010 first GF.
A better bounce to Milne alters history.
lol what.. They both built their teams from scratch
Thats not accurate and you know it.
So what. Once it’s built it’s built. They didn’t have to do it for each flag. They’re both one time winners who were just handed the subsequent ones because it’s easy to win them when they’ve already had success right?
Pretty hilarious how having a different opinion is supposedly no longer a reason to post in here. Well, at least not this week...
In the end, I find it patently ridiculous to suggest that the GFC is back in a Grand Final because people as knowledgeable as our coaching staff started listening to the bleating of some supporters who have as much insight into what goes on at the club as just about every other football fan. That is, pretty close to none.
So when posters come in here and suggest that the club's finally back on the right track because they kept the faith and expertly guided the Cats back into contention with their sage advice, I will have no hesitation in sharing my opinion that they are hopelessly misguided. And it would lack integrity to wave it through this week and then get back to offering that viewpoint once Saturday's race is run.
It's an opinions forum, after all, Their opinion is that they were right all along. My opinion is that they were wrong then and look even more foolish now. But they're all just opinions in the end. And being able to share them at any time (rather than opting for some pretence of 'Kumbaya', simply because the club is competing in yet another GF) is surely the basis for how forums like this should operate. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
I respect the other posters on this board enough to tell them when I entirely disagree with them. That's how this forum should work. And, in fact, how life should work. And, as has been said so many times before, if it's really a problem for any poster to have their perspective questioned here, you seriously wonder why they believe an opinions forum like this even exists.
In the end, I find it patently ridiculous to suggest that the GFC is back in a Grand Final because people as knowledgeable as our coaching staff started listening to the bleating of some supporters who have as much insight into what goes on at the club as just about every other football fan. That is, pretty close to none.
So when posters come in here and suggest that the club's finally back on the right track because they kept the faith and expertly guided the Cats back into contention with their sage advice, I will have no hesitation in sharing my opinion that they are hopelessly misguided. And it would lack integrity to wave it through this week and then get back to offering that viewpoint once Saturday's race is run.
It's an opinions forum, after all, Their opinion is that they were right all along. My opinion is that they were wrong then and look even more foolish now. But they're all just opinions in the end. And being able to share them at any time (rather than opting for some pretence of 'Kumbaya', simply because the club is competing in yet another GF) is surely the basis for how forums like this should operate. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
I respect the other posters on this board enough to tell them when I entirely disagree with them. That's how this forum should work. And, in fact, how life should work. And, as has been said so many times before, if it's really a problem for any poster to have their perspective questioned here, you seriously wonder why they believe an opinions forum like this even exists.
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I said a few years ago ( half jokingly) that I was becoming a little reluctant to admit to being a cats supporter as our game style was a world away from what made past Geelong teams a pleasure to support. We seemed to have become a stodgy team more focussed on ‘not losing‘ rather than winning. Dad’s Army jibes from mates were wearing thin.
Was that all Scott or just the hand he was dealt? Could he have changed his approach a little earlier in the process ? Maybe .We’ll never know for sure.
Bottom line is Scott and co have given us all a fabulous ride this season, with a style that has been thoroughly enjoyable to watch.
No matter what happens on Saturday I will walk away happy and proud to be a cats supporter.
(Happier if we get the cream
)
Was that all Scott or just the hand he was dealt? Could he have changed his approach a little earlier in the process ? Maybe .We’ll never know for sure.
Bottom line is Scott and co have given us all a fabulous ride this season, with a style that has been thoroughly enjoyable to watch.
No matter what happens on Saturday I will walk away happy and proud to be a cats supporter.
(Happier if we get the cream
)- Banned
- #6,673
Win or lose Chris Scott has taken this team to three grand finals now. Two in the last three years. I was wrong unless we get embarrassed like GWS ‘19 on Saturday
Great posts Pollywaffle and goyoucatters
Just about every Premier does something different to put them ahead of this incredibly competitive and innovative competition.
I think our teams over the last few years focused on opposition score minimisation and scoring ourselves from precise and safe ball movement - maybe too simplistic but hopefully you can understand my drift.
This led to treacle like ball movement at times , getting picked off when the opposition lifts pressure rating and kicking into an overcrowded forward line.
There was also the silo approach from the line coaches which both disconnected the players and led to protecting individual and line coach KPI's.
When we hoist the Cup this year I think a few fundamental paradigm shifts will define our season.
- Removing Line Coaches and replacing with a ball movement coach and development coaches
- A lot of new blood in the coaching group
- A new game plan based on Turnovers.
I think Scott and team have realised that a turnover based game is the new key to success - each team averages 68 turnovers per game - that 136 opportunities from which to either score or minimise your opponents ability to score.
We are currently #1 in scores from opposition turnovers and #1 in conceding a score from our turnovers.
We score so well because now know when to go and do it so quick that our forwards can go to work in a relatively open forward line.
We defend so well because we play a team based defence creating pressure all over the ground - forcing the opposition into poorer quality F50 entries which suits our intercept defenders ( also supported by having an outnumber in defence)
Most importantly we now have the cattle to execute playing this way - our team GPS numbers must be insane
Scott has led this paradigm change , he's always been a brilliant H&A coach, he now has a great chance of turning that into September success.
Go Catters !!!
Fantastic summary, Farmer2Goggin.Great posts Pollywaffle and goyoucatters
Just about every Premier does something different to put them ahead of this incredibly competitive and innovative competition.
I think our teams over the last few years focused on opposition score minimisation and scoring ourselves from precise and safe ball movement - maybe too simplistic but hopefully you can understand my drift.
This led to treacle like ball movement at times , getting picked off when the opposition lifts pressure rating and kicking into an overcrowded forward line.
There was also the silo approach from the line coaches which both disconnected the players and led to protecting individual and line coach KPI's.
When we hoist the Cup this year I think a few fundamental paradigm shifts will define our season.
- Removing Line Coaches and replacing with a ball movement coach and development coaches
- A lot of new blood in the coaching group
- A new game plan based on Turnovers.
I think Scott and team have realised that a turnover based game is the new key to success - each team averages 68 turnovers per game - that 136 opportunities from which to either score or minimise your opponents ability to score.
We are currently #1 in scores from opposition turnovers and #1 in conceding a score from our turnovers.
We score so well because now know when to go and do it so quick that our forwards can go to work in a relatively open forward line.
We defend so well because we play a team based defence creating pressure all over the ground - forcing the opposition into poorer quality F50 entries which suits our intercept defenders ( also supported by having an outnumber in defence)
Most importantly we now have the cattle to execute playing this way - our team GPS numbers must be insane
Scott has led this paradigm change , he's always been a brilliant H&A coach, he now has a great chance of turning that into September success.
Go Catters !!!
And it's considered posts like this one that make a mockery of the whole 'I could see what was wrong sitting at home on the couch. Just surprised it's taken the entire club this long to catch up with my elite insights.' nonsense that we're subjected to on here from those who believe they've always been in the know.
Still, just my opinion, of course...
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