20 Disposals and a goal

[RUNVS]

Totally agree. I’d even argue AA team isn’t auto-elite, as ATEOTD, being in the team or the squad is a subjective decision … Libba or Viney could’ve easily been picked over Serong, so does that mean they are ‘auto-elite’ and Serong isn’t??

I’d suggest if a player has a good combo of AA, coaches votes (for their position), Brownlow votes (for position), good B&F result (might be top-6 in a top-team, top-3 in a bottom team), good stats in comparison to players in similar positions, then you can start to build a picture whether the player was in the best 5% or so in their position, or if they were ‘back in the pack’.

For some things like winning coaches voting it’s auto-elite, irrespective of other metrics. For others like making AA squad or a podium finish in B&F, you’d need other data points to confirm (or deny) your case for elite status.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

AA is a better system though as even though small forwards and small defenders still get completely shafted in the All Australian team at least players like tall defenders, ruckmen and key forwards get a look in. AA teams are forced to pick players who are not midfielders, which is more than most other awards. Brownlow and even Coaches votes are just midfielder awards. Willing to bet most players who win a B&F are midfielders too.

 

[Noidnadroj]

AA is a better system though as even though small forwards and small defenders still get completely shafted in the All Australian team at least players like tall defenders, ruckmen and key forwards get a look in. AA teams are forced to pick players who are not midfielders, which is more than most other awards. Brownlow and even Coaches votes are just midfielder awards. Willing to bet most players who win a B&F are midfielders too.

Yes, different metrics need to be used for different positions…. often comparing players against others in the same position is required. For example history tells you about 85% of the leading top-20 in coaches votes are centre square midfielders. Of course they are often also the best players, but essentially the more CBA’s you have, the more chance of figuring prominently… the number of goals you kick doesn’t seem heavily aligned to coaches votes received.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[werdna78]

This is not intended to be a dick-measuring thread, though it will probably degenerate into one. In amongst all of that stuff, hopefully some interesting debate can be had. I've always rated this particular statistic as clearly it favours goal-kicking mids but also understand that it also discriminates againstb defenders and permanent forwards. Below is a hastily compiled list of players who had seasons in which they averaged 20 or more disposals and 1 or more goals. It's not a definitive list as I didn't have the time to trawl through the records of every player in the league. Also I haven't included any player who played part of their career before 1965 as I used Footywire to do this and it only records disposal stats after 1965. So for instance, Barassi, who had one such season for the Blues, presumably would have had many such seasons for the Demons before 1965, has been left out as it would be misleading to say that he only had 1 such season. Current players in bold. It also records the overall career averages for any players who had 5 or more seasons.

1. Leigh Matthews - 13 seasons averaging 20+ disposals & 1+ goals. Career Average 22.2 disposals 2.8 goals.
2. Kevin Bartlett - 13 seasons. Career Average 22.7 disposals 1.9 goals.
3. Garry Wilson - 13 seasons. Career Average 35 disposals 1.7 goals.
4. Brent Harvey - 13 seasons. Career average 21.3 disposals 1.2 goals.
5. Dustin Martin - 12 seasons. Career Average 24.6 disposals, 1.1 goals.
6. John Murphy - 10 seasons. Career average 24.6 disposals 1,5 goals.
7. Gary Ablett Junior - 9 seasons. Career Average 24.9 disposals 1.2 goals.
8. Rodney Ashman - 8 seasons. Career Average 20 disposals 1.6 goals.
9. Nathan Buckley - 8 seasons. Career Average 24.6 disposals 1 goal.
10. Dale Weightman - 8 seasons. Career disposals 20.8 1.3 goals.
11. Paul Chapman - 8 seasons. Career Average 19.7 disposals 1.3 goals.
12. Tim Watson - 7 seasons. Career Average 19.9 disposals 1.1 goals.
13. Peter German - 6 seasons. Career Average 21.4 disposals 1.1 goals.
14. David Clarke - 5 seasons. Career Average 21.4 disposals 1.5 goals.
15. Brian Royal - 5 seasons. Career Average 20.5 disposals 1.5 goals.
16. Robbie Gray - 5 seasons. Career average 19.5 disposals 1.5 goals.
17. James Hird - 5 seasons. Career average 20.1 disposals 1.4 goals.
18. Dale Weightman - 5 seasons. Career average 20.8 disposals 1.3 goals.
19. Patrick Dangerfield - 5 seasons. Career average 23.6 disposals 1 goal.
20. Greg Williams - 5 seasons. Career Average 26.9 disposals 0.9 goals.
21. Michael Voss - 5 seasons. Career average 21.3 disposals 0.8 goals.
22. Gerard Healy - 5 seasons. Career average 21.6 disposals 0.5 goals.
23. Marcus Bontempelli - 4 seasons.
24. Jim Krakouer - 4 seasons.
25. Andrew Macleod - 4 seasons.
26. Darren Jarman - 4 seasons.
27. Steve Johnson - 4 seasons.
28. Luke Hodge - 4 seasons.
29. Shannon Grant - 4 seasons.
30. John Platten - 3 seasons.
31. Wayne Johnston - 3 seasons.
32. Dane Swan - 3 seasons.
33. Robert Flower - 3 seasons.
34. Adam Goodes - 3 seasons.
35. Peter Daicos - 3 seasons.
36. Matthew Pavlich - 3 seasons.
37. Anthony Koutoufides - 3 seasons.
38. Mark Ricciuto - 3 seasons.
39. John Platten - 3 seasons.
40. Chris Judd - 3 seasons.
41. Jason Ackermanis - 3 seasons.
42. Alan Didak - 3 seasons.
43. Scott Camporeale - 3 seasons.
44. Shane Crawford - 3 seasons.
45. Kym Hodgeman - 3 seasons.
46. Malcom Blight - 2 seasons.
47. Toby Greene - 2 seasons.
48. Nat Fyfe - 2 seasons.
49. Paul Kelly - 2 seasons.
50. Peter Matera - 2 seasons.
51. Craig Bradley - 2 seasons.
52. Christian Petracca - 2 seasons.
53. Tim Kelly - 2 seasons.
54. Joel; Selwood - 2 seasons.
55. Jack Ziebell - 2 seasons.
56. Stephen Coniglio - 2 seasons.
57. Chris Lewis.
58. Bill Barrot - 2 seasons.
59. Barry Cable - 2 seasons.
60. Paul Williams - 2 seasons.
61. Paul Couch - 2 seasons.
62. Tom Lynch (Crows) - 2 seasons.
63. Nigel Lappin - 1 season.
64. Scot Pendlebury - 1 season.
65. Ben Cousins - 1 season.
66. Mitch Duncan - 1 season.
67. Jimmy Bartel - 1 season.
68. Adam Cooney - 1 season.
69. Hugh McCluggage - 1 season.
70. Isaac Smith - 1 season.
71. Michael Walters - 1 season.
72. Kevin Sheedy - 1 season.
73. Wayne Campbell - 1 season.
74. Joel Bowden - 1 season.
75. Stan Alves - 1 season.
76. Dylan Moore - 1 season.

The first thing to say about this list is it's not complete and I'm happy for people to post any suggestions as I'm sure that I've missed a lot of older players and possibly some current. My methodology was to get Footwire to rank current players on their disposal for 2023 and go through all who averaged 20 or more disposals. There are probably errors as well and, if anyone can point them, out I'll be happy to correct them. Other than that, it would be worthwhile discussing how useful this stat is. It seems to some extent to back up the general consensus regarding the greatest players with the obvious glaring admission of defenders and pure forwards. Hence the fact that players of the calibre of Carey and Ablett Senior, both of whom are talked about as "GOATS", never managed to get onto this list. Nevertheless it still seems useful as a tool to assess the value of midfielders.

The other thing that I found interesting while compiling the list is the value of comparing the number of seasons a player got 20 and 1 with their overall career averages. I only thought about looking at this some way into compiling the list when I noticed a curious thing about GAJ and Dusty's records. Whereas Dusty has had 3 more seasons where he achieved 20 and 1 than GAJ, Gaj has a slightly higher career averages. The reason is clearly that GAJ had a somewhat slower start to his career whereas Dusty was hitting 20 and 1 from his second season on (only missing out in 2016 from then on in). Why was GAJ slower to start? In any case, it suggests that in GAJ's best seasons he was performing statistically better than Dusty. Ie peak GAJ was better than peak Dusty (at least in the home and away season). But, as I said at starting that I wanted to avoid dick measurement, I'll leave it at that.

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

 

[Lingsface]

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

View attachment 1935730

That’s a pretty nice list of players I just think you need help with your spelling Bartlett is spelled Bartel.

 

[werdna78]

That’s a pretty nice list of players I just think you need help with your spelling Bartlett is spelled Bartel.

Great player.

Not enough goals or recognition.

 

[Cleansweep17]

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

View attachment 1935730

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

View attachment 1935730

Pretty good list

However I don’t really agree with you weighting each of the awards equally. Is a Brownlow or NS equal to a B&F at say Gold Coast of which GAJ had 4 of? I’d say no.

Likewise a Coleman equal to an AA? I don’t don’t think so either.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

This is not intended to be a dick-measuring thread, though it will probably degenerate into one. In amongst all of that stuff, hopefully some interesting debate can be had. I've always rated this particular statistic as clearly it favours goal-kicking mids but also understand that it also discriminates againstb defenders and permanent forwards. Below is a hastily compiled list of players who had seasons in which they averaged 20 or more disposals and 1 or more goals. It's not a definitive list as I didn't have the time to trawl through the records of every player in the league. Also I haven't included any player who played part of their career before 1965 as I used Footywire to do this and it only records disposal stats after 1965. So for instance, Barassi, who had one such season for the Blues, presumably would have had many such seasons for the Demons before 1965, has been left out as it would be misleading to say that he only had 1 such season. Current players in bold. It also records the overall career averages for any players who had 5 or more seasons.

1. Leigh Matthews - 13 seasons averaging 20+ disposals & 1+ goals. Career Average 22.2 disposals 2.8 goals.
2. Kevin Bartlett - 13 seasons. Career Average 22.7 disposals 1.9 goals.
3. Garry Wilson - 13 seasons. Career Average 35 disposals 1.7 goals.
4. Brent Harvey - 13 seasons. Career average 21.3 disposals 1.2 goals.
5. Dustin Martin - 12 seasons. Career Average 24.6 disposals, 1.1 goals.
6. John Murphy - 10 seasons. Career average 24.6 disposals 1,5 goals.
7. Gary Ablett Junior - 9 seasons. Career Average 24.9 disposals 1.2 goals.
8. Rodney Ashman - 8 seasons. Career Average 20 disposals 1.6 goals.
9. Nathan Buckley - 8 seasons. Career Average 24.6 disposals 1 goal.
10. Dale Weightman - 8 seasons. Career disposals 20.8 1.3 goals.
11. Paul Chapman - 8 seasons. Career Average 19.7 disposals 1.3 goals.
12. Tim Watson - 7 seasons. Career Average 19.9 disposals 1.1 goals.
13. Peter German - 6 seasons. Career Average 21.4 disposals 1.1 goals.
14. David Clarke - 5 seasons. Career Average 21.4 disposals 1.5 goals.
15. Brian Royal - 5 seasons. Career Average 20.5 disposals 1.5 goals.
16. Robbie Gray - 5 seasons. Career average 19.5 disposals 1.5 goals.
17. James Hird - 5 seasons. Career average 20.1 disposals 1.4 goals.
18. Dale Weightman - 5 seasons. Career average 20.8 disposals 1.3 goals.
19. Patrick Dangerfield - 5 seasons. Career average 23.6 disposals 1 goal.
20. Greg Williams - 5 seasons. Career Average 26.9 disposals 0.9 goals.
21. Michael Voss - 5 seasons. Career average 21.3 disposals 0.8 goals.
22. Gerard Healy - 5 seasons. Career average 21.6 disposals 0.5 goals.
23. Marcus Bontempelli - 4 seasons.
24. Jim Krakouer - 4 seasons.
25. Andrew Macleod - 4 seasons.
26. Darren Jarman - 4 seasons.
27. Steve Johnson - 4 seasons.
28. Luke Hodge - 4 seasons.
29. Shannon Grant - 4 seasons.
30. John Platten - 3 seasons.
31. Wayne Johnston - 3 seasons.
32. Dane Swan - 3 seasons.
33. Robert Flower - 3 seasons.
34. Adam Goodes - 3 seasons.
35. Peter Daicos - 3 seasons.
36. Matthew Pavlich - 3 seasons.
37. Anthony Koutoufides - 3 seasons.
38. Mark Ricciuto - 3 seasons.
39. John Platten - 3 seasons.
40. Chris Judd - 3 seasons.
41. Jason Ackermanis - 3 seasons.
42. Alan Didak - 3 seasons.
43. Scott Camporeale - 3 seasons.
44. Shane Crawford - 3 seasons.
45. Kym Hodgeman - 3 seasons.
46. Malcom Blight - 2 seasons.
47. Toby Greene - 2 seasons.
48. Nat Fyfe - 2 seasons.
49. Paul Kelly - 2 seasons.
50. Peter Matera - 2 seasons.
51. Craig Bradley - 2 seasons.
52. Christian Petracca - 2 seasons.
53. Tim Kelly - 2 seasons.
54. Joel; Selwood - 2 seasons.
55. Jack Ziebell - 2 seasons.
56. Stephen Coniglio - 2 seasons.
57. Chris Lewis.
58. Bill Barrot - 2 seasons.
59. Barry Cable - 2 seasons.
60. Paul Williams - 2 seasons.
61. Paul Couch - 2 seasons.
62. Tom Lynch (Crows) - 2 seasons.
63. Nigel Lappin - 1 season.
64. Scot Pendlebury - 1 season.
65. Ben Cousins - 1 season.
66. Mitch Duncan - 1 season.
67. Jimmy Bartel - 1 season.
68. Adam Cooney - 1 season.
69. Hugh McCluggage - 1 season.
70. Isaac Smith - 1 season.
71. Michael Walters - 1 season.
72. Kevin Sheedy - 1 season.
73. Wayne Campbell - 1 season.
74. Joel Bowden - 1 season.
75. Stan Alves - 1 season.
76. Dylan Moore - 1 season.

The first thing to say about this list is it's not complete and I'm happy for people to post any suggestions as I'm sure that I've missed a lot of older players and possibly some current. My methodology was to get Footwire to rank current players on their disposal for 2023 and go through all who averaged 20 or more disposals. There are probably errors as well and, if anyone can point them, out I'll be happy to correct them. Other than that, it would be worthwhile discussing how useful this stat is. It seems to some extent to back up the general consensus regarding the greatest players with the obvious glaring admission of defenders and pure forwards. Hence the fact that players of the calibre of Carey and Ablett Senior, both of whom are talked about as "GOATS", never managed to get onto this list. Nevertheless it still seems useful as a tool to assess the value of midfielders.

The other thing that I found interesting while compiling the list is the value of comparing the number of seasons a player got 20 and 1 with their overall career averages. I only thought about looking at this some way into compiling the list when I noticed a curious thing about GAJ and Dusty's records. Whereas Dusty has had 3 more seasons where he achieved 20 and 1 than GAJ, Gaj has a slightly higher career averages. The reason is clearly that GAJ had a somewhat slower start to his career whereas Dusty was hitting 20 and 1 from his second season on (only missing out in 2016 from then on in). Why was GAJ slower to start? In any case, it suggests that in GAJ's best seasons he was performing statistically better than Dusty. Ie peak GAJ was better than peak Dusty (at least in the home and away season). But, as I said at starting that I wanted to avoid dick measurement, I'll leave it at that.

Would you rather someone have 10 genuinely effective Disposals - or someone have 20 Disposals that result in Turnovers and/or Contests?



Disposals as a stat, in isolation, is a complete waste of everyone's time.

 

[Mr Meow]

Pretty good list

However I don’t really agree with you weighting each of the awards equally. Is a Brownlow or NS equal to a B&F at say Gold Coast of which GAJ had 4 of? I’d say no.

Likewise a Coleman equal to an AA? I don’t don’t think so either.

He's slam dunked the top few.

Just give him a round of applause and move on.

 

[Cleansweep17]

He's slam dunked the top few.

Just give him a round of applause and move on.

Yeah some. Carey and Dusty are a little low, Hawkins, Riewoldt, Pendlebury, Tuck are way too high.

Snr isn’t even on the list.

 

[werdna78]

Yeah some. Carey and Dusty are a little low, Hawkins, Riewoldt, Pendlebury, Tuck are way too high.

I think outside the top 10, you will definitely be able to say someone is not the GOAT.

Hawkins and Riewoldt are there, because they both kicked over 700 goals and won multiple premierships.

Same with Tuck belonging in this class below the GOATs with 7 premierships.

Carey jumped up my list, when IMO a GOAT should have more than 1 premiership. Also why Lockett and Ablett SR are ruled out, with no premierships.

Ablett JR, Buddy and Dusty will also all join the Hall of Fame and maybe made even Legends of the game.

And Dusty is still moving up the list.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I think outside the top 10, you will definitely be able to say someone is not the GOAT.

Hawkins and Riewoldt are there, because they both kicked over 700 goals and won multiple premierships.

Same with Tuck belonging in this class below the GOATs with 7 premierships.

Carey jumped up my list, when IMO a GOAT should have more than 1 premiership. Also why Lockett and Ablett SR are ruled out, with no premierships.

Ablett JR, Buddy and Dusty will also all join the Hall of Fame and maybe made even Legends of the game.

And Dusty is still moving up the list.

Wow, that is spot on I completely agree. Careful saying that around here though. They don’t like that point of view.

 

[Fadge]

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

View attachment 1935730

I like what you've done with this list, trying to objectively rate the players based on the data.

However, it is really difficult to do so the way the awards have changed over the seasons.

I mean, I reckon Coventry, Matthews and Bartlett would have more than 1 All-Australian and 1 Norm Smith Medal between them if those awards were available throughout their entire careers.

Players not yet eligible for Hall Of Fame - it would be a pretty safe assumption that Ablett Jnr and Franklin will both get Legend status at some stage.

I assume amongst Martin's 'other' awards are the Gary Ayres Medals - an award that has been around since 2016?

I also think it's a bit harsh to limit your list to minimum two flags in a game where each team has 18 players on the field plus interchange.

But great concept!

 

[Thrawn]

I think outside the top 10, you will definitely be able to say someone is not the GOAT.

Hawkins and Riewoldt are there, because they both kicked over 700 goals and won multiple premierships.

Same with Tuck belonging in this class below the GOATs with 7 premierships.

Carey jumped up my list, when IMO a GOAT should have more than 1 premiership. Also why Lockett and Ablett SR are ruled out, with no premierships.

Ablett JR, Buddy and Dusty will also all join the Hall of Fame and maybe made even Legends of the game.

And Dusty is still moving up the list.

A premiership should have far less weight because it's a team achievement, not an individual one.

 

[werdna78]

A premiership should have far less weight because it's a team achievement, not an individual one.

It is a team sport and individuals would win nothing without the help of their team.

The ultimate achievement and one few get to achieve.

Players have said they would trade everything for a premiership.

 

[Thrawn]

It is a team sport and individuals would win nothing without the help of their team.

The ultimate achievement and one few get to achieve.

Players have said they would trade everything for a premiership.

I'm sure Cripps would trade his Brownlow for a premiership too, but playing in one doesn't necessarily make a player great. I think it's flawed to have some kind of arbitrary 2 premiership clause to determine who is the best, when the game has many examples of players of that caliber who have won either one or none at all.

 

[werdna78]

I'm sure Cripps would trade his Brownlow for a premiership too, but playing in one doesn't necessarily make a player great. I think it's flawed to have some kind of arbitrary 2 premiership clause to determine who is the best, when the game has many examples of players of that caliber who have won either one or none at all.

Okay, we are going to have to disagree there. IMO, to be considered a GOAT, you have to have won a premiership.

There are other metrics that eliminate players who have multiple premierships, but are nowhere near being the greatest.

When I added the 2 premiership metric, it was to boost Wayne Carey, as a lot of people have him up there. You can make numbers do anything.

Removing the 2 premiership metric, doesn't change the top 5.

It's all arbitrary, trying to compare players across different eras and trying to put 1 player ahead of another. I.e Player A is better at this, Player B is better at that.

Getting 20 disposals and more than a goal game, is a good starting point for identifying great players. But IMO you can go further.

 

[Thrawn]

Okay, we are going to have to disagree there. IMO, to be considered a GOAT, you have to have won a premiership.

Tony Lockett and GAS never won a premiership... that doesn't mean a whole lot when measuring their greatness though. All it means is that they weren't in strong enough teams at the time.

 

[werdna78]

Tony Lockett and GAS never won a premiership... that doesn't mean a whole lot when measuring their greatness though. All it means is that they weren't in strong enough teams at the time.

Tony Lockett is the Greatest Goal Kicker of all time and will never be passed.

Gary Ablett SR is an all-time great and legend of the game, his son is better.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Tony Lockett and GAS never won a premiership... that doesn't mean a whole lot when measuring their greatness though. All it means is that they weren't in strong enough teams at the time.

Gary Ablett Snr played in 4 GFs. How many chances did he need exactly, 8? He’s extremely lucky to have played in 4 hardly anybody gets that many.

 

[Royce Hafey]

Would you rather someone have 10 genuinely effective Disposals - or someone have 20 Disposals that result in Turnovers and/or Contests?



Disposals as a stat, in isolation, is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Well that's sort of the point of pairing it with the stat for goals kicked per match. A player who averages a goal a match is unlikely to not be habving an impact with their disposals.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Well that's sort of the point of pairing it with the stat for goals kicked per match. A player who averages a goal a match is unlikely to not be habving an impact with their disposals.

What if their 20 Disposals are 1 Goal and 19 Behinds every week?

 

[werdna78]

What if their 20 Disposals are 1 Goal and 19 Behinds every week?

Would be playing as a full forward, with a bad case of the yips.

 

[Muddiemoose]

My top 20 players of all time. Based on the following metrics. (goals x disposals x awards/premierships)

Couple of disclaimers I used to get close to what are viewed as GOATS.

• only counted players who have won at least 2 premierships
• rewards long careers
• rewards players recognised my different means (cups, Norm Smiths, Brownlows, AA's Hall of Fame, Best and Fairest, Coleman)
• There are 3 current players

Observations

• Matthews, Ablett JR, Bartlett & Franklin are well above everyone else
• If its just AFL era from when West Coast and the Bears joined. Carey is then 3rd.
• Players who kicked more goals a game, can have less disposals a game like J Riewoldt & Hawkins
• Lockett is the greatest goal kicker of all time

When the question would come up, who is the GOAT I didn't have enough info to make an informed opinion, so I created this spreadsheet using data from AFL Tables.

View attachment 1935730

Really happy to see Goodes right up in the rankings

One of the aspects that has a player in that top tier is the ability to not just play in multiple positions but Dominate

Don’t think we have many others who played Ruck, Midfield and Forward to such a high degree across a career

 

[Cleansweep17]

Really happy to see Goodes right up in the rankings

One of the aspects that has a player in that top tier is the ability to not just play in multiple positions but Dominate

Don’t think we have many others who played Ruck, Midfield and Forward to such a high degree across a career

Balta who has the AFL’s rarest skill set comes to mind is the only other I can think of