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Player Watch #20 Sam Reid

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Sam Reid

Sam Reid’s outstanding athleticism and strong contested grab make him a genuine threat inside 50. The 2012 premiership forward showed exactly that when he booted six goals in the Sydney Swans’ clash with Collingwood in Mark Grook at the SCG to win the 2019 Goodes-O’Loughlin Medal. The 2009 draftee can also play as a loose man in defence or pinch-hit in the ruck. Reid has had very little luck on the injury front in his time in red and white, but he didn’t miss an AFL match in 2019. He’s played 143 career games at the top level for a return of 154 goals.

Sam Reid
DOB: 27 December 1991
DEBUT: 2010
DRAFT: #38, 2009 National Draft
RECRUITED FROM: Wangaratta Rovers (Vic)/Murray U18

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Sam Reid | AFL

Follow Sam Reid's progress through AFL
www.sydneyswans.com.au www.sydneyswans.com.au
 
The King! said:
your Reid claims are mostly just spurious and subjective things like he crashes packs hard and tackles hard, what do you measure this by? white hung back? Again this is just fluff

Reid barley gets near the ball then I can go with that, doesn’t crash packs and if he does he gets hurt

Reid’s 2019 output? What about it ? His own club didn’t rate it , despite playing every game he didn’t crack the top 10 In the best and fairest at a bottom 4 club. Not even the coaches support the idea it was good output, interesting your only argument against white comparisons was the 2019 year??

he is only 28? He is closer to the end ? Which key forwards improve from 29 onwards? Because he is injured at the moment so probably won’t play if we return soo

Brownlow votes and a few cherry picked stats like 10 mark games in total? Why don’t we just compare the career

disposals ave Reid 11 white 10 marks 4 each goals white 1.2 Reid 1.1? Because cherry picking is the only way to tell the difference?

white did go at 29 correct so will reid if the club has any sense
Click to expand...
I quoted stats not opinions like you did. You only quoted 3 stats which were about the same when I quoted a lot more that said otherwise. Yet you accuse me of cherry picking.

Reid rated high in almost all team ranking stats on footywire. You may not think so but tackles inside 50 is a worthwhile stat. It measures pressure. Reid rates very highly which suggests he goes hard. It's considered by the AFL fraternity to be a key indicator of forward pressure. I think we all remember getting frustrated by Jesse White - "Looks like Godzilla, plays like Bambi"

But this is not about Jesse. You were the one who compared Reid to White. It's pretty easy to demonstrate statistically that Reid is well ahead of White. And yes, Brownlow votes over a career of 11 to 1 is hardly cherry picking and suggests that a lot of others rated Reid a lot higher. White never once turned a game off his own boot yet last year Reid kicked 6 against the Pies in a BOG Marn Grook trophy winning performance. Recent history is the most reliable indicator of form and 2019 was a solid year for him.

I'm not Reid's biggest fan but I'm also not his biggest detractor. You have that honour. Try to put some objectivity into your posts rather than just bagging out the same targets again and again, regardless of reality.
 
The King! said:
Reid could retire if his body can’t cope

he has continually accepted long term large contracts so how about we judge him on what we see

you put one player above the club
Click to expand...

So how about we judge him on what we we see ?

OK, I can see you're itching to judge him on the 2020 season, the one where Heeney won the Coleman and the Brownlow and we finished in the finals, equal top on points. No ? I guess not.

How about judging Reid on the last full season, when he played all 22 games but still produced what any coach would want to see from their 2nd/3rd tall forward, who also played 2nd ruck and spent periods in defence.

5th overall in team Brownlow votes (top 4 were midfielders)
Voted BOG Round 10 vs. Pies
2nd for goals kicked
2nd for total hitouts
1st for contested marks (13th in AFL)
1st for tackles inside 50 (8th in AFL)
1st for marks inside 50 (17th in AFL)

Did you watch GWS Sam Reid in 2019 ? Must have been gutting to lose another GF.

Seriously mate, why such obviously personal attacks on a Swans Premiership player ? I can understand Tedeski having an issue with Franklin's contract even if I don't agree with his view of Buddy's intrinsic value to the club. He bases his opinions on facts.

You and your hatred of Reid, what is that all about ? Did he break your heart ? If you despise the guy keep it to yourself, or tell it to an Agony Aunt.
 
Tedeski said:
At 33, Buddy fits this criteria better than Reid.
We should pull the pin.
Click to expand...
Personally I'd like to see both fit and firing until our younger generation come up to speed but talls tend to cop more injuries. Buddy seems more reliable than most and he can play injured. In the 10 years prior he's missed 4 games/year. Reid's missed 7 games/year but I guess Buddy's missed games cost us more.

Could be worse. We might have landed Daniher.
 

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Kennedy Parker said:
IIRC Reid played 1 game in 2010, then a promising season in 2011, then was a role player in the 2012 premiership before signing a big 5 year deal. So effectively he played 2 seasons and then got offered a long term contract on decent coin which I think is probably an overvaluation. Tom is being renewed on a rolling basis and we're periodically reassessing his value based on his progress.

And statistically I think its apples and oranges because Tom plays in an eda where our main forward is Buddy Franklin while in Reid's early years the other tall forward was Goodes. Goodesy will push up into the midfield regularly at stages during the game so Reid gets to be the focus up forward. McCartin never consistently had that opportunity. Naturally, Reid would have better forward statistics than McCartin.
Click to expand...

KP, if you want to dispute facts, you have to do your homework. IIRC is less and less reliable as you age. Believe me.

Reid's 5yr contract was awarded at the end of 2011, not 2012 (as you recalled).

That's why I compared 19yo 2019 McCartin to 19yo 2011 Reid. (even if 2012 had been relevant I could hardly have compared 20 yr old Reid of 2012 with 20 yr old McCartin of 2020). Reid and McCartin's birthdays are days apart. Both started very young..

In 2011/2019 both played a full season and, if you did your homework, since Buddy only played 5 games with McCartin in 2019 I think we can rule him out as a goal hog. Besides, McCartin already had more games under his belt. Reid debuted in Rd 22 of 2010 when he was also just an 18 yr old but he was trying to break into a team that was 2 years from a Premiership. So yes, I think it's a sufficiently apples v. apples comparison for the purpose. Which is to give a feel for how the Swans were thinking about Reid at the time they awarded a 5 year contract to a younf forward.

Now I believe Tom McCartin has huge potential. I'm really impressed with the guy. But at 19yrs old Reid looked an even better proposition. Remember,
clubs pay based on expectations/potential. They tend to sew up a promising young key position player on a long contract if everything looks good. In 2011 they didn't have your gift of 20/20 hindsight.

Let me take you on a journey back to the past ......<imagine wiggly lines on the screen or wriggle your head from side to side>

It's the end of 2011. We're still rebuilding. We've clawed our way back into finals despite losing O'Loughlin & Hall in 2009. Roos has gone leaving his offsider, a bloke called Horse who was known as the only set of steak knives to ever win a Coleman. The 2010 Bradshaw experiment had started well but ended poorly. Still, what about that huge Torp he kicked against Brissie (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bradshaw-on-fire-as-swans-subdue-lions-20100501-u0hp.html) ?

Horse is worried about where his next goal is coming from. Jesse White still hasn't come good. We 're getting quite a few goals from Goodes (Is there any position he can't dominate ?). Spangher, ROK, LRT and Rohan are running around, as is a handy McGlynn but i truth we're skint of forwards. We know we've got the core of a Premiership team but we sorely lack a big forward presence. Spangher was a waste of time. LRT and Goodes are getting on. But that young 19 yr old Reid has just kicked 22 goals in his first full year and he's only missed one game.

Horsee thinks "this 196cm 19 yo Reid looks flash. He promises plenty and we're desperate to secure a key forward. The Hawks took a punt on young Franklin a few years earlier and nailed down his contract before he could get homesick. Buddy kicked 21 goals in his first full year then 31 the next before kicking 73 and over a hundred the next. Clearly I could never get Buddy to the Swans but maybe Reid will be the next Buddy. He certainly looks promising"

Maybe the Swans wanted to believe that Reid was the next great hope but he would also have known that he was worth good coin and Victorian clubs would have been sniffing around. The Swans knew they couldn't just wait to see if he was indeed the next big thing. So Reid was offered a 5 yr deal in Dec 2011, when he was still a teen. (Happy f*ckin 20th birthday Sammie. All I got for my 20th was being dumped a few days later by my girlfriend Lucy. "I didn't want to break up on your actual birthday" Damn it. Some birthday. At least I kept her gift of cherry red budgie smugglers with "Big Boy" written across the back)

In 2012 Sam kicked 31 goals, just like Buddy's 2nd year. He played all but 3 games and the Swans won the premiership. Reid was only 20 and wearing a permiership medallion. In the GF he contributed 1.3 plus 6 inside 50s, 13 disposals, 3 marks and a goal assist. It was a low scoring game where no Swan kicked more than 2 goals and he was rated about middle of the pack for his game. "Still", thought Horse. "if we can win a GF with a 31 goal Reid and a broken down Goodes, imagine how well we'll go when he reaches his potential and kicks 73 in his 3rd full year".

Sadly he didn't. In Round 9 of May 2013 Reid suffered a small tear to his quad. Some say he was rushed back too soon and tore his quad after only 12 minutes. He'd kicked just 7 of the 73 goals. Horse was sad to realise that Sam was not Buddy but he lifted his chin. " Cheer up", he thought to himself "Luckily we've secured Kurt Tippet. I knew he was worth all the money we shelled out for him. And at least he won't break down"

-----------

The rest of the story...well, I think you know it.

Good night children
 
scaryness said:
I reckon Daniher kicked more goals in the last 3 seasons than Reid has in his whole career
Click to expand...
According to his Wiki page:
2017: 65
2018: 8
2019: 7
TOTAL: 80

Reid Career: 154

For reference: Joe 188 goals from 104 games, Sam is 154 goals from 143 games
 
scaryness said:
I reckon Daniher kicked more goals in the last 3 seasons than Reid has in his whole career
Click to expand...
Reid has won more finals matches than Essendon has in the last 15 years.
Reid: Played 11 finals for 7 wins 4 losses.
Essendon: Played 4 finals for 0 wins 4 losses.

Am I doing this trolling by stealth thing right?
 

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bungee said:
KP, if you want to dispute facts, you have to do your homework. IIRC is less and less reliable as you age. Believe me.

Reid's 5yr contract was awarded at the end of 2011, not 2012 (as you recalled).

That's why I compared 19yo 2019 McCartin to 19yo 2011 Reid. (even if 2012 had been relevant I could hardly have compared 20 yr old Reid of 2012 with 20 yr old McCartin of 2020). Reid and McCartin's birthdays are days apart. Both started very young..

In 2011/2019 both played a full season and, if you did your homework, since Buddy only played 5 games with McCartin in 2019 I think we can rule him out as a goal hog. Besides, McCartin already had more games under his belt. Reid debuted in Rd 22 of 2010 when he was also just an 18 yr old but he was trying to break into a team that was 2 years from a Premiership. So yes, I think it's a sufficiently apples v. apples comparison for the purpose. Which is to give a feel for how the Swans were thinking about Reid at the time they awarded a 5 year contract to a younf forward.

Now I believe Tom McCartin has huge potential. I'm really impressed with the guy. But at 19yrs old Reid looked an even better proposition. Remember,
clubs pay based on expectations/potential. They tend to sew up a promising young key position player on a long contract if everything looks good. In 2011 they didn't have your gift of 20/20 hindsight.

Let me take you on a journey back to the past ......<imagine wiggly lines on the screen or wriggle your head from side to side>

It's the end of 2011. We're still rebuilding. We've clawed our way back into finals despite losing O'Loughlin & Hall in 2009. Roos has gone leaving his offsider, a bloke called Horse who was known as the only set of steak knives to ever win a Coleman. The 2010 Bradshaw experiment had started well but ended poorly. Still, what about that huge Torp he kicked against Brissie (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bradshaw-on-fire-as-swans-subdue-lions-20100501-u0hp.html) ?

Horse is worried about where his next goal is coming from. Jesse White still hasn't come good. We 're getting quite a few goals from Goodes (Is there any position he can't dominate ?). Spangher, ROK, LRT and Rohan are running around, as is a handy McGlynn but i truth we're skint of forwards. We know we've got the core of a Premiership team but we sorely lack a big forward presence. Spangher was a waste of time. LRT and Goodes are getting on. But that young 19 yr old Reid has just kicked 22 goals in his first full year and he's only missed one game.

Horsee thinks "this 196cm 19 yo Reid looks flash. He promises plenty and we're desperate to secure a key forward. The Hawks took a punt on young Franklin a few years earlier and nailed down his contract before he could get homesick. Buddy kicked 21 goals in his first full year then 31 the next before kicking 73 and over a hundred the next. Clearly I could never get Buddy to the Swans but maybe Reid will be the next Buddy. He certainly looks promising"

Maybe the Swans wanted to believe that Reid was the next great hope but he would also have known that he was worth good coin and Victorian clubs would have been sniffing around. The Swans knew they couldn't just wait to see if he was indeed the next big thing. So Reid was offered a 5 yr deal in Dec 2011, when he was still a teen. (Happy f*ckin 20th birthday Sammie. All I got for my 20th was being dumped a few days later by my girlfriend Lucy. "I didn't want to break up on your actual birthday" Damn it. Some birthday. At least I kept her gift of cherry red budgie smugglers with "Big Boy" written across the back)

In 2012 Sam kicked 31 goals, just like Buddy's 2nd year. He played all but 3 games and the Swans won the premiership. Reid was only 20 and wearing a permiership medallion. In the GF he contributed 1.3 plus 6 inside 50s, 13 disposals, 3 marks and a goal assist. It was a low scoring game where no Swan kicked more than 2 goals and he was rated about middle of the pack for his game. "Still", thought Horse. "if we can win a GF with a 31 goal Reid and a broken down Goodes, imagine how well we'll go when he reaches his potential and kicks 73 in his 3rd full year".

Sadly he didn't. In Round 9 of May 2013 Reid suffered a small tear to his quad. Some say he was rushed back too soon and tore his quad after only 12 minutes. He'd kicked just 7 of the 73 goals. Horse was sad to realise that Sam was not Buddy but he lifted his chin. " Cheer up", he thought to himself "Luckily we've secured Kurt Tippet. I knew he was worth all the money we shelled out for him. And at least he won't break down"

-----------

The rest of the story...well, I think you know it.

Good night children
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll grant you that he was extended at the end of 2011. So that means based on his 22 goal season, he was given 5 additional years on top of the year he still had to run 2012 which effectively took him to the end of 2017. That really emphasises my view that his contract was an overvaluation if anything.

First of all, you keep bringing McCartin in comparison to Reid but they didn't play in remotely comparable contexts. As you said, Reid in 2011 was playing in a team that had Goodes as its main forward, but short of forward targets elsewhere. McCartin in 2019 played in the same team as Buddy (and since you'd have done your homework, you'd know that Buddy played 7 games [R 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 23] with McCartin not 5. In those 7 games Bud kicked 23 goals, so it's reasonable to say for those games he was a "goal hog" of sorts; for perspective Papley the leading goal kicker had 37 from 22 games), but even in games where Buddy did not play others were preferred to McCartin as a key forward i.e. Sam Reid himself, Nick Blakey and Isaac Heeney was also used as a prominent forward target throughout the year. There are games where McCartin was being used in defence, so really you're comparing 2011 Reid who was a permanent forward to 2019 McCartin who was a utility.

Also, I don't agree with the premise that clubs pay on potential/expectations, it's more accurate to say they pay based on market values which are determined by known performances. Notwithstanding, whether pay is determined by internal or external forces, that doesn't refute my original position that a 5-year extension to a teenage forward with 22 goals from 24 games is an overvaluation.

And finally, the club didn't have the benefit of hindsight in 2011 as I do now, that's fair enough. So let's pose a question to bring the argument into a current-day context:

Nick Blakey as of Round 1, 2020 (his most recent game)
Played 22 games and kicked 20 goals.
20yr 1mth old

Sam Reid as of Round 23, 2011
Played 22 games and kicked 21 goals.
19yr 8mths old

Blakey is a better point of comparison than McCartin for circa 2011 Reid.

Now I don't believe that Reid at the end of 2011 had done enough to warrant a 5-year contract extension. And since I'm consistent with that standard, if you were to ask me Should Blakey have his contract extended to the end of 2026 tomorrow? I would say no. Because I don't believe his current body of work warrants that kind of long-term deal either and I've got no benefit of knowing how Blakey will go in the future.

Now the counter-argument is that 'Hey if you offer long-term contracts, the risk may payoff and you could get the player on a cheaper rate meaning more salary cap room', it's not a view that I subscribe to in terms of how we should conduct list management but I acknowledge that's a valid point. I think we should only give long-term deals to players that have established themselves as reliable stars but opinions on that matter will vary from person to person.

I generally think giving long-term deals to young players on the basis of 'potential', is not a great idea, in the era of Franklin's contract that's excepted because there are salary cap constraints and the club needs to leverage security to pay a lower per year salary but in the Post-Buddy era I'd likely disagree with all long-term deals being given to teenagers unless they burst onto the scene Chris Judd style.
 
Swansujelly said:
I like Sam and he would be one of the first picked ...when fit, but you can’t blame the player for injuries. Can’t expect a club to have a crystal ball either. I have no problem with Sam nor his contracts
Click to expand...

He's not to blame for his injuries. He's to blame for the games where he plays and does very little, which is quite often.

He's kicked 4.7 across 11 career finals (averages 0.36 in finals.)

Goalless 61 out of 143 games (over 42% of his career games.)
 

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caesar88 said:
He's not to blame for his injuries. He's to blame for the games where he plays and does very little, which is quite often.

He's kicked 4.7 across 11 career finals (averages 0.36 in finals.)

Goalless 61 out of 143 games (over 42% of his career games.)
Click to expand...

Reid has played a fair bit of time in defence or moving up the ground, many of those 61 games would be because of that.

His not a superstar, but he has been more than a solid player for us for some time now.
 
Bonz said:
Reid has played a fair bit of time in defence or moving up the ground, many of those 61 games would be because of that.

His not a superstar, but he has been more than a solid player for us for some time now.
Click to expand...
Well said Bonz.
He has also helped out in the ruck many times.
Clubs have to always make calls on young players' contracts in order to keep them or lose them & in our club's case we have the added battle of these players being able to go back home for the same or more money. The 5 years offered to Sam was clearly this & at the time the correct call.
 
Kennedy Parker said:
Okay, I'll grant you that he was extended at the end of 2011. So that means based on his 22 goal season, he was given 5 additional years on top of the year he still had to run 2012 which effectively took him to the end of 2017. That really emphasises my view that his contract was an overvaluation if anything.

First of all, you keep bringing McCartin in comparison to Reid but they didn't play in remotely comparable contexts. As you said, Reid in 2011 was playing in a team that had Goodes as its main forward, but short of forward targets elsewhere. McCartin in 2019 played in the same team as Buddy (and since you'd have done your homework, you'd know that Buddy played 7 games [R 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 23] with McCartin not 5. In those 7 games Bud kicked 23 goals, so it's reasonable to say for those games he was a "goal hog" of sorts; for perspective Papley the leading goal kicker had 37 from 22 games), but even in games where Buddy did not play others were preferred to McCartin as a key forward i.e. Sam Reid himself, Nick Blakey and Isaac Heeney was also used as a prominent forward target throughout the year. There are games where McCartin was being used in defence, so really you're comparing 2011 Reid who was a permanent forward to 2019 McCartin who was a utility.

Also, I don't agree with the premise that clubs pay on potential/expectations, it's more accurate to say they pay based on market values which are determined by known performances. Notwithstanding, whether pay is determined by internal or external forces, that doesn't refute my original position that a 5-year extension to a teenage forward with 22 goals from 24 games is an overvaluation.

And finally, the club didn't have the benefit of hindsight in 2011 as I do now, that's fair enough. So let's pose a question to bring the argument into a current-day context:

Nick Blakey as of Round 1, 2020 (his most recent game)
Played 22 games and kicked 20 goals.
20yr 1mth old

Sam Reid as of Round 23, 2011
Played 22 games and kicked 21 goals.
19yr 8mths old

Blakey is a better point of comparison than McCartin for circa 2011 Reid.

Now I don't believe that Reid at the end of 2011 had done enough to warrant a 5-year contract extension. And since I'm consistent with that standard, if you were to ask me Should Blakey have his contract extended to the end of 2026 tomorrow? I would say no. Because I don't believe his current body of work warrants that kind of long-term deal either and I've got no benefit of knowing how Blakey will go in the future.

Now the counter-argument is that 'Hey if you offer long-term contracts, the risk may payoff and you could get the player on a cheaper rate meaning more salary cap room', it's not a view that I subscribe to in terms of how we should conduct list management but I acknowledge that's a valid point. I think we should only give long-term deals to players that have established themselves as reliable stars but opinions on that matter will vary from person to person.

I generally think giving long-term deals to young players on the basis of 'potential', is not a great idea, in the era of Franklin's contract that's excepted because there are salary cap constraints and the club needs to leverage security to pay a lower per year salary but in the Post-Buddy era I'd likely disagree with all long-term deals being given to teenagers unless they burst onto the scene Chris Judd style.
Click to expand...
Key forwards are always in demand and clubs pay big to land them, I have no qualms about Sydney offering a 5 year extension to Reid after his 2nd season, he looked like he was on an upward trajectory. How do we know that a Melbourne club wasnt offering a similar deal? Would you have let him go, maybe in the psd for free?

Look at the western bulldogs they paid a huge price to Tom Boyd who played about 1 good game in his career (unfortunately for us). They also just gave Naughton a contract extension after 1 season.

Collingwood paid Travis Cloke a fortune to sit at full forward for his entire career and average less than 2 goals a game in a side that played finals for just about the whole time he was there.

Look at what some key forwards get paid or are kept on lists in comparison to midfielders who are probably better players.

off the top of my head
Jenkins
McCarthy
Taberner
Hogan
Dixon
Stringer

These guys are good players on their day but probably on the overpaid list when you look at their output every season.
 
The only hit on Reid imo is his body....as a player, he has done plenty of good things, likely still sits best 22. Harshly judged imo.
 
Whether you think Reid is a good player or not, when fit and playing he does these few things:

- Provides a tall target important to our structure (see the Crows game when we couldn't get it out of our back half because he had no one to kick it to)
- Provides a back up ruckman letting Aliir stay in the backline (who do you prefer forward, Sinclair or Reid?)
- Lets McCartin not take the best or 2nd best defender (when Buddy is playing)

Reid could be a nice stop-gap between McCartin and Blakey starting to grow and develop more
 

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