2001 vs. 1993

[Mr Ripper]

Been a bit of yak in the media of late about whether the spectacle of the game is going downhill...or whether indeed it's as good, or even better, than ever. I tend to sit in the former camp. My opinion is that it's become too sterile and too defensive, and hasn't been helped by incompetent umpiring departments.

Anyway, during the BigFooty-less purgatory of the previous week, I thought I'd compare the matches I attended up 'til round 10 in 1993 (what I consider to be the best season of football in my time) to the matches I've seen in the flesh this year, and give them a rating out of 10.

1993:
Round 1 - Collingwood 17.13 (115) d Footscray 13.17 (95) @ M.C.G. Fast paced season's opener with the Pies a little too strong in the end. 7/10
- Fitzroy 17.16 (118) d Carlton 17.10 (112) @ Princes Park Great comeback victory by the Roys against their cruel landlords. 7.5/10
- Adelaide 28.10 (178) d Richmond 12.12 (84) @ M.C.G. Tigers flat after night GF; Crows play brilliant attacking football with Modra successfully capping off their work 10 times. 5.5/10
Round 2 - Carlton 19.18 (132) drew Essendon 20.12 (132) @ M.C.G. Highest scoring draw of all-time. Kernahan's infamous miss costs the Blues the match. 8.5/10
Round 3 - Footscray 14.17 (101) d Fitzroy 14.14 (98) @ Princes Park Roys just couldn't hold out against a big Dogs' second half. 7/10
- Collingwood 21.13 (139) d Essendon 16.13 (109) @ M.C.G. Easter Monday match played at a lightning pace. Barry Mitchell the star of Collingwood's first quarter blitzkrieg. 7/10
Round 5 - Fitzroy 24.23 (167) d Sydney 11.8 (74) @ Princes Park Swans pathetic; Roys not at their best either until an 11 goal last quarter. 4/10
Round 6 - Essendon 23.18 (156) d Geelong 19.18 (132) @ M.C.G. Ablett 14, Salmon 10. One of the greatest games of all-time. 9/10
- Collingwood 21.11 (137) d Carlton 15.11 (101) @ M.C.G. Pretty fair match, but nothing extraordinary. 6.5/10
Round 7 - Fitzroy 12.7 (79) d Melbourne 11.12 (78) @ Princes Park Hard working win for the Roys in a dour, scrappy affair. 6/10
Round 9 - Fitzroy 14.8 (92) d Collingwood 10.13 (73) @ Princes Park Roys' 7 goal opening quarter burst in torrential rain wins the match. 6/10
Round 10 - Essendon 19.15 (129) d Fitzroy 19.11 (125) @ M.C.G. Essendon, inspired by Watson and Hird, reel in the fast starting Lions. Lynch plays arguably his best ever match. 7.5/10

2001:
Round 1 - Essendon 23.8 (146) d Kangaroos 9.7 (61) @ M.C.G. Bombers blow 'em away early and it's just a stroll in the park from there on in. 5.5/10
- Hawthorn 13.7 (85) d Collingwood 11.15 (81) @ Colonial Close game that never rose to any great heights. 6.5/10
Round 2 - Hawthorn 16.11 (107) d Carlton 11.15 (81) @ Optus A pumped-up Hawk side dominates the middle portion of the match against a fairly disappointing home outfit. 6.5/10
- Geelong 17.13 (115) d St. Kilda 13.8 (86) @ Colonial Entertaining match apart from the sleep inducing ball-up fest in the second quarter. 6.5/10
Round 3 - Richmond 17.14 (116) d Brisbane Lions 14.10 (94) @ M.C.G. Error filled first half. Richmond fire in the third term and then hold off the visitors in a competitive last quarter. 5/10
- Melbourne 18.16 (124) d Geelong 15.14 (104) @ M.C.G. Pretty good game given the unseasonally hot Easter Monday conditions. 7/10
Round 4 - Western Bulldogs 21.14 (140) d Brisbane Lions 12.15 (87) @ Colonial Free-flowing match, but that was more due to the Lions' softness than any great exhibition of skills. 5/10
Round 5 - Hawthorn 24.11 (155) d Western Bulldogs 19.12 (126) @ Colonial Most exciting display of fast, modern football seen by your correspondent this season. Thrill-a-minute. 8.5/10
Round 6 - Richmond 19.15 (129) d Kangaroos 12.6 (78) @ Colonial Dour, but hard and competitive for 3 and a bit quarters until the Kangas turned up their collective toes half way through the last. 6/10
Round 7 - Essendon 16.24 (120) d Richmond 10.14 (74) @ M.C.G. Writing was on the wall very early. A yawn for all non Bomber supporters. 5/10
Round 8 - Carlton 21.16 (142) d Brisbane Lions 9.14 (68) @ Optus Lions may as well have not returned to the fray after the first break. 4.5/10
Round 9 - Collingwood 14.14 (98) d St. Kilda 12.8 (80) @ M.C.G. Fairly dull match of fluctuating fortunes. At least it was relatively close. 6/10
Round 10 - Port Adelaide 17.14 (116) d Hawthorn 10.13 (73) @ M.C.G. Fortunately, Port were occasionally able to break free of the doldrums to help keep the crowd awake. 5/10

1993 average: 6.8/10
2001 average: 5.9/10

So there we have it. Conclusive proof that AFL football is slowly sliding into the abyss.

Dan?

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Anyway, during the BigFooty-less purgatory of the previous week, I thought I'd compare the matches I attended in 1993 (what I consider to be the best season of football in my time) to the matches I've seen in the flesh this year, and give them a rating out of 10.

Ripper i agree with you wholeheartedly that 1993 was the best football year. Definatly in my 14 years of watching footy...1993 was by far the best year. It saw:
- the emergence of the Crows as a somewhat short time power of the league,
- saw Tony Modra as the new glamour full forward,
- saw the debut of the flashy Nathan Buckley,
- the emergence of Wayne Carey to superstar status,
- the baby bombers of Hird, Hills, Mercuri, Misiti, Calthorpe, Ricky O, Wanganeen, Fletcher completing the Pre Season and Season premiers.
- The first night final (i think...i know it was between Essendon and Carlton with Carlton winning by 3 points),
- the amazing comeback of Essendon in the Prelim,
- Nicky Winmars racial stance and chest pointing,
- the match between Brisbane and Sydney where Brisbane was 19.10 to 0.4 at half time (ended up winning by 162 points)
- Fitzroys last competitive season in the league
- Wanganeens somewhat controversial Brownlow win
- Osbornes sickening injury at the SCG
- Sydneys win against Melbourne at the SCG which broke the drought
- the arrival of the brilliant (altho shortly lived career) Adrian Mcadam
- Barassi taking control of the swans
- the thumpings of Sydney by North, Fitzroy and Brisbane
- the Death of Alan Schwabb

And the games of the year:
Round 2 Carlton v essendon
Round 3 Footscray v Fitzroy
Round 3 Brisbane v Melbourne
Round 3 Hawthorn v Carlton
Round 4 Adelaide v Fitzroy
Round 5 Geelong v Brisbane
Round 6 Carlton v Collingwood
Round 6 Essendon v Geelong (Ablett 14, Salmon 10)
Round 8 Adelaide v North Melbourne (best AFL game ive ever seen)
Round 9 Essendon v Fitzroy
State Of Origin SA v Vic (Jarman 6 goals)
Round 12 North v West Coast
Round 13 Hawthorn v North
Round 14 Fitzroy v North
Round 14 Carlton v West Coast
Round 15 Melbourne v Geelong
Round 16 Essendon v West Coast
Round 19 Fitzroy v Adelaide
Round 22 Adelaide v Collingwood
Round 22 Carlton v Sydney
Qualifying Final Essendon v Carlton
Preliminary Final Essendon v Adelaide
Grand Final Essendon v Carlton

theres my reasons lol!!

 

[WCE2000]

I agree that the game is going downhill, but the problem is, it is not going to downhill quick.

If it was going downhill quickly, the AFL wouldsay, 'wait a second, this is crap, we gotta fix it up"

But it's going to downhill very slowly, and the AFL seem to take the view it will fix itself up.

Something has to be done quickly.

Do you guys think this rule could work to stop timewasting in the dying stages, or would it be to hard to police and to controversial, because it is a personal judegment, rather than a "clear-cut" rule:

If a team intentionally wastes time for a continous period, ie, a player takes a mark, takes 20 seconds to play on, then goes back 10 metres to a free man with no intention of moving the ball forward, and this process repeats for a 4 or 5 marks. If this happens, then team wasting time, will concede a free kick, and a 25 metre penalty.

Good rule, or to controversial??

 

[Dan26]

Good topic Ripper.

Yep, 1993 was a great year for great footy. One of the reasons was the emergence of the Kangaroos. We saw then add some huge totals (they were the highest scoring team of the year) and play some great games. No one had figured out how to play them, and counter their long kicking game plan. Consequently, they had some great games that year, most noticeably against Adelaide in at Football Park, where they went down by 2 points.

They also played a ripper against Essendon on a Friday night where they won by 36 points, but it was close all night, before Carey "won" the game for them in the last quarter all by himself.

1993 was also a very even year. From memory, the team that finished 12th had 10 wins and 10 losses from the 20 game season. Apart from the Swans, there wasn't a bad team. Maybe it was just one of those years where there happened to be a good mix of young exciting teams.

For what it's worth, that draw between Essendon and Carlton for mine, was the match of the year The two best teams in the comp (although we didn't know it at the time) put on one of the great games. High standard all the way through, with swings one way, then the other, and eventually a dramatic finish. I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. The great Essendon-Geelong game that year was a bit "soft", although it was saved from the remarkable goalkicking performances of two players. It was a classic, but for mine, not as great as the Essendon-Carlton game.

I actually thought the Fitzroy-Adelaide game at Footy Park that year was the equal of any game played to that stage of 1993.

Anyway, back to your point. Yes, there probably were better standard games to that stage in 1993, but I don't think that necessarily means that the game has gone downhill. The great thing about Aussie Rules is that every game is different. Even though a lot of teams flood, it didn't stop Hawthorn and the Bulldogs putting on a game where nearly 280 points were kicked earlier this year.

As I have said to you before, you can kick the ball faster than you can run, so teams will always be able to counter flooding. Tonight at Football Park, we saw the Bulldogs run the Crows off their feet, through fast running, and long kicking into an OPEN forward line. Consequently, it was good to watch. The most successful teams are those which complement a good defence with pro-active attacking football, and that will always win games.

I think the game is fine. Sure, 1993 might have had some better games, but you are always going to get that random variation from year to year. The man I respect most in modern day football is Denis Pagan and not surprisingly, he doesn't see flooding as an issue. He has overseen the most successful team in footy over the past 8 seasons, primarily because of their long kicking attacking playing style. They kick the ball long (faster than anyone can run back to flood), and put the opposiiton defence under pressure quickly, by moving the ball quickly. They are the masters of efficiency.

They have proved that it is easy to beat flooding and have an attractive, yet successful game, if you move the ball quickly and don't piss-fart around with it. Flooding,in my opinion, is blown out of all proportion. Essendon aren't a great team beause they flood; They are a great team because of a super-strong playing list. Same with Carlton. Melbourne didn't make the GF last year because of flooding - in fact, they were one of the teams who DON'T flood. They made the Grand Final because they played pro-active running footy. Last years 4th placed team, the Kangaroos, also don't flood. They play pro-active attacking footy.

Sure some teams flood, and some games might lack a bit in terms of spectacle but I still think the standard of games "overall" is pretty high. The game will always evolve. Crowds were good at games in the early 1960s, but the games were often scrappy because there was no out of bounds on the full rule. When this rule got introduced in 1967, the standard improved. The standard now in a million times better than what we would have got, before 1967, yet no one complained before then.

So, generally, I agree than 1993 was probably better than 2001 in terms of spectacle. But here in 2001, we still have a fine competiton, with great games all around the country each week. Every year is different, and you might find that next year, or in 2003, we have another year "out of the box" like 1993. I think the teams that are pro-active are currently PROVING that flooding can easily be beaten, while at the same time, providing an attractive spectacle. The Western Bulldogs are a pretty good example of that actually. I'm presuming you saw tonight's game between them and the Crows, and, aside from the one-sided scoreline, I presume you thought - like me - that it was an open free-fowing attacking game. Other teams will catch on eventually.

One of the reasons why you don't need to worry is the nature of our sport. With no restriction on players movements on the field and 36 players on the ground in total, there are literallly millions of possibilities for positional placements. There is no "right" way to play the game or everyone would be doing it. Every game is different, and this will continue to be the case for the next 100 years. Flooding will not dominate the competiton as the pessimists expect, simply because of the infinite ways of comabatng it, and positioning players on a large field.

So don't worry about it too much Ripp. Just keep on going to the footy an enjoying it. The moment you actually stop considering going to the footy, we have a problem. I don't think we are close to that stage yet. Are we?

 

[Port01]

This season would seem a lot duller due to the fact it has always been seen as a done deal with regards to the premiership.

The great years are always the ones when 4-5 teams (or more) always appear chances until they are knocked out.

The games during the season always appear to mean more when there are many genuine premiership chances.

This year anyone below 3rd or 4th are just considered to be making up the numbers, and even those from 2 to 3 likewise by many people.

 

[choppy]

Originally posted by Dan25
Good topic Ripper.

Yep, 1993 was a great year for great footy. One of the reasons was the emergence of the Kangaroos. We saw then add some huge totals (they were the highest scoring team of the year) and play some great games. No one had figured out how to play them, and counter their long kicking game plan. Consequently, they had some great games that year, most noticeably against Adelaide in at Football Park, where they went down by 2 points.

They also played a ripper against Essendon on a Friday night where they won by 36 points, but it was close all night, before Carey "won" the game for them in the last quarter all by himself.

Ah, those were the days, we had Carey, McAdam, Longmire and Roberts all kicking over 50 goals. That was when the recent rivalry b/w us kicked in again. A lot of North supporters reckon this was the best year for north apart from the finals. Who was that Carlton player who only had to kick a point in the final round to give us the second chance.

That was also the year that McAdam kicked a bagful against Collingwood. Ahhh, those were the days. And it still makes me so happy.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Just continuing on with this theme, Melbourne vs Collingwood gets a 5.5/10 from me. Melbourne's almost total non-performance was slightly offset by Collingwood's effervescent and, at times, exhilarating play; just giving this match a 'pass mark'.

Your score, Dan?

P.S. 2001's average just keeps on dropping!

 

[CJH]

And while we are at it Dan, how about yesterday's Richmond / Carlton game?

Both teams flooded, both made skill errors and turned the ball over but nonetheless it was a competitive stuggle. I'd go for about 7/10.

(And I know I have attempted to quantify a subjecive argument! )

 

[Dan26]

Well, the Melbourne-Collingwood game was more of a free-flowing affair (despite Melbourne's total incompetance), but the Richmond-Carlton game was more enthralling.

I give Richmond-Carlton 7 out of 10, and Melbourne-Collingwood a 6.5. If Melbourne played to their potential (they were at about 40%), it would have been a cracker of a match. In fact, today's match is a good example of why we don't need to do anything with the game. There will always be exhilarating play. The spaces on the field will always be there, and despite popular opinion, the same amount of space will still be there in 100 years time.

It's how teams use that space that will determine how well they can beat the flooding.

 

[Mr Eagle]

1993 was a much better year...

I would have thought it was quite obvious that 1993 was a far better year for football than 2001. I mean how can you have a good football year when West Coast is in the bottom eight?

 

[lioness]

That Fitzroy/Essendon match in 1993 - I am SO glad you mentioned that Ripper, I remember that game really well, just could never remember the margin. I will sleep well for the first time in years knowing that. lol. That game is memorable for other reasons too but I won't go into that right here. hehehehe.

 

[Dan26]

Did ya get sum action that night Lioness?

 

[lioness]

Originally posted by Dan25
Did ya get sum action that night Lioness?

That NIGHT???? Uh yeah sure, night. lol

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by WCE2000
But it's going to downhill very slowly, and the AFL seem to take the view it will fix itself up.

Firstly, you guys have fantastic memories, cause I can't even remember what happened last week!

I think things will fix itself up in terms of congestion and over defensive play.

If you were to name the two most defensive coaches in the league, many of you would come up with the names Eade and Malthouse. One floods like northern NSW and the other doesn't. Why?

I think it is to do with the personell available and the game plan designed to suit these players. Eade has the oldest list in the comp with players not over-endowed with height and their game plan is by no means free running. This means that it is OK for them to stack the backline because they primarily move the ball by finding marking options up the ground.

The Pies have the youngest and arguably fastest list in the comp. Collingwood however, cannot stack the backline as it would take away our only means of offence and that is to run the ball hard from defence and kicking/handballing to a "hot spot" upon which another hard running player is running into. Space is essential for this to work and we didn't execute this well enough against the Swans to beat the flood.

Essendon have been known to flood, but really prefer the same open hard-running style as Collingwood. When it clicks it is some of the prettiest football you can witness and an evolution to the standard of football in 1993. I don't think it will be long before this style of play is more common and man on man is the only option, otherwise you are stiffling your attack.

The umpiring is completely f*cked. Was in '93 and is now. The major difference is the umpires have been elevated to being a very important aspect of the game. Take the numbers and racing stripes off them and tell them to go back to being unassuming unsung heros!

 

[BMD]

Hate to disagree with you all but 1993 absolutely, totally, completely SUCKED.

The worst thing was that after suffering through so many losses, (not all of 'em but enough of 'em) I wasn't there when the drought was broken.