Draft Review 2005 - Redo the 2005 Draft

[lamaros]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Didn't see Kruezer tear Port apart from FF in the wet at AAMI in his first season?
He would be a better forward then Ryder ever would be.

3 goals and 9 touches? Dynamic...

Ryder has kicked 31 goals in 38 games since moving to the ruck... absolutely no potential to play forward there...

 

[Sin City]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

3 goals and 9 touches? Dynamic...

You don't think three goals in a quarter from a first year ruck is decent performance?

 

[mediumsizered]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

You don't think three goals in a quarter from a first year ruck is decent performance?

Particularly in a game where Carlton had only kicked 3 goals by three quarter time, with Fev comprehensively beaten by Carlile. Kreuzer became the focal point in attack in that last quarter & his was the match-winning performance.

 

[lamaros]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Couple of points.

1. Kreuzer is a fine player.

2. Ryder has shown the most goal kicking ability of all the young ruckmen, having consistently scored since playing in the role.

3. Kreuzer wasn't in the 2005 draft.

Don't take my comments as a Kreuzer v Ryder thing, I was just trying to illustrate the absurdity of people saying Ryder hasn't showed anything as a forward. To compare him to Kreuzer to try and prove this is silly, as they have both shown a lot in a number of roles. (though I'm not sure if Kreuzer has played as a backman?)

 

[HARKER]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Some from this draft are already expected to shine this year whilst we know the quality of the top tier:

1. Pendelbury (Good player in a good team stands out)
2. Murphy (Quality)
3. Thomas (Is proving everyone wrong)
4. Warnock (Let's wait and see)
5. Higgins (Given no injuries)
6. Swallow
7. Ryder (Just not consistent enough)
8. Varcoe (Looking ominous and will step up this year)
9. Douglas
10. Jones

 

[Kings Army]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

LOL... how can you mention Daw and Hampson in the same breath as Paddy Ryder, NN was pick 2. Only one of them has a football brain...
Crikey you are seriously tripping if you cant see how good Ryder is...
Daw and Hampson will be lucky to play 50games between them..
FFS you are showing your ignorance. You have no idea...

He loses intensity far to easily. His best is brillant - his worst terrible. Still too many games where he goes through the motions and has little impact. A taller version of Daniel Wells who continues to frustrate due to lack of intensity. You are talking like Ryder will be the best ruckman in the comp in a few years. Pie supporters spoke of Josh Fraser like you do Ryder. Potential and living up to it can be worlds apart!

 

[BrownPearHookers]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

He loses intensity far to easily. His best is brillant - his worst terrible. Still too many games where he goes through the motions and has little impact. A taller version of Daniel Wells who continues to frustrate due to lack of intensity. You are talking like Ryder will be the best ruckman in the comp in a few years. Pie supporters spoke of Josh Fraser like you do Ryder. Potential and living up to it can be worlds apart!

Look compare his out put with all ruckmen, Super Coach and Dream team give a pretty clear picture.

Sandilands Dt 97.9 Sc 114
Cox Dt 84.7 Sc 88
Ryder Dt 85.8 Sc 85.7
McIntosh Dt 80.5 Sc 81.6
Mumford Dt 79.9 SC 92.6
Jolly Dt 79.7 Sc 79.8
Kreuzer Dt 76.2 Sc 82
Jamar Dt 73 Sc 82.3
Leunberger Dt 77.4 Sc 68.5
Naitanui Dt 62 Sc 71.2

Considering he comes in and out of games he is going pretty good, He turns 23 this year, and normally Ruckman reach their best at 25+, Ryder is tracking along beautifuly.
If he can start pushing 90+ in DT and SC would mean he is doing alot right considering how few Ruckman reach that point.
I am sure you would be happy with McIntosh reaching that also.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Look compare his out put with all ruckmen, Super Coach and Dream team give a pretty clear picture.

Sandilands Dt 97.9 Sc 114
Cox Dt 84.7 Sc 88
Ryder Dt 85.8 Sc 85.7
McIntosh Dt 80.5 Sc 81.6
Mumford Dt 79.9 SC 92.6
Jolly Dt 79.7 Sc 79.8
Kreuzer Dt 76.2 Sc 82
Jamar Dt 73 Sc 82.3
Leunberger Dt 77.4 Sc 68.5
Naitanui Dt 62 Sc 71.2

Considering he comes in and out of games he is going pretty good, He turns 23 this year, and normally Ruckman reach their best at 25+, Ryder is tracking along beautifuly.
If he can start pushing 90+ in DT and SC would mean he is doing alot right considering how few Ruckman reach that point.
I am sure you would be happy with McIntosh reaching that also.

Interesting that an underdone Cox still ranked 2nd

 

[Gus]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Some from this draft are already expected to shine this year whilst we know the quality of the top tier:

1. Pendelbury (Good player in a good team stands out)
2. Murphy (Quality)
3. Thomas (Is proving everyone wrong)
4. Warnock (Let's wait and see)
5. Higgins (Given no injuries)
6. Swallow
7. Ryder (Just not consistent enough)
8. Varcoe (Looking ominous and will step up this year)
9. Douglas
10. Jones

What has Warnock done to be #4?

 

[BrownPearHookers]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Interesting that an underdone Cox still ranked 2nd

I think along the same lines regarding Ryder, sleeps 1/2 the game and still is up pretty high.
But seriously Cox was a champion ruckman at the height of his career.
people forget sometimes.
Naitanui will be the next big thing in terms of ruckman.

 

[E Shed]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

\
I agree that he is not great as a starting ruck, but he is very good around the ground and he is ahead of every other ruck with his tackling, marking and movement.

NN will never have the footy smarts and 1%s of Ryder. I doubt NN will ever become a great player.

Interesting that you don't rate the 1%'s and Tackling of Nic Nat up with Ryder. I would have thought other than his pure tapwork, which is brilliant, tackling and 1%'s is what makes NicNat such an exciting prospect. He is a tackling machine around clearances and doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.

I would prefer Ryder if given a choice between the 2 for his footy smarts but I wouldn't say he's a better tackler that Naita.

 

[Kings Army]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Look compare his out put with all ruckmen, Super Coach and Dream team give a pretty clear picture.

Sandilands Dt 97.9 Sc 114
Cox Dt 84.7 Sc 88
Ryder Dt 85.8 Sc 85.7
McIntosh Dt 80.5 Sc 81.6
Mumford Dt 79.9 SC 92.6
Jolly Dt 79.7 Sc 79.8
Kreuzer Dt 76.2 Sc 82
Jamar Dt 73 Sc 82.3
Leunberger Dt 77.4 Sc 68.5
Naitanui Dt 62 Sc 71.2

Considering he comes in and out of games he is going pretty good, He turns 23 this year, and normally Ruckman reach their best at 25+, Ryder is tracking along beautifuly.
If he can start pushing 90+ in DT and SC would mean he is doing alot right considering how few Ruckman reach that point.
I am sure you would be happy with McIntosh reaching that also.

The picture is no where near clear!!

Using Dream Team results is terrible way of working out who is a good player. If that is the case then the following players are all better than Jobe Watson - Michael Barlow, Daniel Cross, Kade Simpson, Brent Prismall, Shane Tuck and Kane Cornes. Brent Prismall is board line in your best 22 but is better in Dream Team!!

McIntosh made the AA squad a few years back - I am sure Ryder would be happy to be listed as one of the best ruckman in the comp - and would rate this higher than a few extra Dream Team points!

 

[The OBSTacle]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

On current form, Ryder is the prototype substitute player.

He hasn't yet lived up to the hype.

 

[TownleyTime]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

If I had the option of Kruezer or Ryder at Collingwood, it would be Ryder. He has more elite traits than Kruezer, the only thing holding him back is he is a bit to laconic.

As for the 05' draft, even Stephen Kernahan believes Pendlebury & Thomas are at another level to Murphy.

 

[Ambrosia]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

On current form, Ryder is the prototype substitute player.

He hasn't yet lived up to the hype.

He would arguably be your best ruckman and kpf

 

[AGC]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

He would arguably be your best ruckman and kpf

Yeah, nah.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Some from this draft are already expected to shine this year whilst we know the quality of the top tier:

1. Pendelbury (Good player in a good team stands out)
2. Murphy (Quality)
3. Thomas (Is proving everyone wrong)
4. Warnock (Let's wait and see)
5. Higgins (Given no injuries)
6. Swallow
7. Ryder (Just not consistent enough)
8. Varcoe (Looking ominous and will step up this year)
9. Douglas
10. Jones

Warnock at 4?! You're joking me.

Way to lose any credibility.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

He would arguably be your best ruckman and kpf

Maybe, if a pair of Ryders relatives were having the argument.

- Petrie and McIntosh have both been AA squad nominated ruckman.

- After 37 matches Goldstein is tracking a mile ahead of Ryder.

- Hansen has a bag of 5 goals and 2 bags of 4 goals in his 11 games as a KPF.

- Ryders best bag over his entire career is 3 goals. A feat he has achieved on 1 occasion in 94 matches.

- Hansen collected 8 or more marks on 8 out of 11 occasions he has played as a KPF.

- Ryder has taken 8 or more marks on 1 single occasion in his last 64 matches.

- I am not convinced that Ryder could replace Drew Petrie as a KPF in our side, and in no way is Ryder a better footballer than Petrie on exposed form.

Conclusion: Ryder would not currently get a game as a ruckman or play as a KPF in Norths best 22. He would most probably have been groomed as a CHB if he was on our list, but the jury is still well and truly out, in regards as to who is going to be a better footballer out of he and the injury hampered Robbie Tarrant.

Ryder is a prodigious talent, but it is absurd to suggest that Ryder is amongst the best 15 players drafted between 2004 and 2006 at this point in time.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Ryder goes at a goal a game for a ruckman, which is excellent, but 12d/19h is nothing to write home about for a guy of his athletiscm, especially as he was the sole ruckman for most of last season, those stats are probably even inflated.

Not so.Hille played 16 last year & Bellchambers played 5.

Year before (2009) Paddy was sole ruck for about 8-10 weeks; and yes his stats were (marginally) up.

 

[Vader]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Ryder has 2 main problems if he's going to be regarded as a ruckman - he's too short (197cm according to Essendon player profiles) and too light (95kg). The one thing he does have going for him is his prodigious leap, which allows him to get over the top of the taller ruckmen - if they're foolish enough to let him.

The problem for Ryder is that everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses by now. They all know how to use his weaknesses to negate his strengths - and the better ruckmen do so ruthlessly. Most bigger bodied (and taller) ruckmen just push him out of the way when he leaps for the ball. This completely negates his leap and renders him ineffective.

His bone structure is such that he's unlikely to ever gain the muscle needed to combat the bigger/stronger ruckmen and at 23 years of age he's unlikely to ever improve on his 197cm stature.

That's not to say that Ryder won't be a more than handy footballer for the Bombers. Far from it. He has excellent mobility and his leap can still be useful. He's probably better off focusing on establishing himself in a KPP role at one end of the ground or the other - CHF or CHB would be my bet. All I'm saying is that he's not a particularly good ruckman and he never will be.

 

[lamaros]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Ah, North supporters...

 

[Kings Army]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Ah, North supporters...

At least we are not using Dream Team averages to rank players. This is 12 year old posting at best!

 

[WCE_phil]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

If I had the option of Kruezer or Ryder at Collingwood, it would be Ryder. He has more elite traits than Kruezer, the only thing holding him back is he is a bit to laconic.

As for the 05' draft, even Stephen Kernahan believes Pendlebury & Thomas are at another level to Murphy.

Of course he does. He considers them a step below murphy. If you combine thomas and pendlebury you would be close to having a player as good as murphy imo. What pendlebury doesn't have in comparison to murphy imo is hurt factor. He's a very, very good player. But he also plays in a very well supported side and while he is exceptional on the inside his outside hurt factor just isn't as high imo. Thomas on the other hand has that outside hurt factor but hasnt shown enough with the ball both consistantly enough or for long enough to be rated anywhere near murphy.

While i have pendlebury and murphy neck and neck now by the end of their careers i think murph will be a long way in front.

 

[lamaros]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Conclusion: Ryder would not currently get a game as a ruckman or play as a KPF in Norths best 22. He would most probably have been groomed as a CHB if he was on our list, but the jury is still well and truly out, in regards as to who is going to be a better footballer out of he and the injury hampered Robbie Tarrant.

This is 12 year old posting at best!

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Maybe, if a pair of Ryders relatives were having the argument.

- Petrie and McIntosh have both been AA squad nominated ruckman.

Petrie was nominated as a CHB IIRC. If he was it was BS. He's had 3 games (not a typo) in his 9 year career where he's hit 20 hitouts. Averaged - in his best years - 10 & 9 hitouts. Ryder's best years 20 & 19.

1 can ruck.
1 can't.
Simple.

- I am not convinced that Ryder could replace Drew Petrie as a KPF in our side, and in no way is Ryder a better footballer than Petrie on exposed form.

Only a liar or idiot could say or believe that.

On what exposed "form" was this???
Petrie's barely played for a year. Exposed form = 0.
Ryder was in the best 5 or 6 on ground last weekend. Exposed form = very good.

Exposed form last year = pretty good as well. Exposed form the year before that = comparable (still arguably in front of) Petrie's that year.
The year before that... Petrie had him.

You're all trying to contrive reasons why a very talented young player who's playing quite well and looking like he's improving, isn't.