2007-2016 Geelong Cats Vs. Hawthorn Hawks

[Pessimistic]

To me, the 2008 came down to one thing.

Cats fwd line Mooney, Lonergan and an un fit chapman and stokes. Hawks backline was not much to write home about, but the selection allowed hodge to patrol it like a demon

Hawks managed to nullify midfield. Scoring from which was its main strength at the time.

But at the end of the day, very few good players either side. Except stuart dew

 

[NetworkNerd]

Geelong have the better players, Hawthorn have the better coach.

The way it's currently looking, 2016 could play a bit part in this discussion. Cats fans are almost certain of a grand final appearance for their side and the Hawks are currently 2 games clear on top.

Both sides might play off in the grand final to end 10 years of shitfighting.

 

[threesixpio]

Any hawfie who actually believes Clarkson just "out coached" Geelong that day is definitely drinking the kool-aid. Cats choked and Hawthorn bradbury'd in, no two ways about it

 

[threesixpio]

So all those missed shots with no pressure from 35m out or closer was great coaching strategy?

Yep 91 game I got wrong cos the poster was trying to pretend it was a knockout final.

89 you had a week off and then had an umpire basically cheat for you in the first half. Yes you had injuries but so did geelong.

Please keep posting. I beg you.

 

[threesixpio]

If there was such a massive talent gap between the two sides, why was the average margin between the two so small over the next 10 or so games? Happy to concede Geelong 2008 was a better side than Hawthorn 2008, but it is pretty clear the gap wasn't as big as the subsequent winning streak suggested, given how close all the games were, and the number of times Geelong had to come from behind to win by slender margins. If Geelong was 'far better' they'd have put us to the sword by large margins on many occasions. The fact is that even with a legendary revenge factor and supposed blood oath to never lose to us again, they continually flirted on the edge of losing to us in almost every encounter.

Clearly Geelong were not the streets ahead their fans like to think.

Hence my post earlier. This pissing contest is obscuring the fact that footy is great when there are two great teams with a rivalry. Both teams have to lift

 

[Hawkthorn33]

Trent Croad ?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Geelong have the better players, Hawthorn have the better coach.

The way it's currently looking, 2016 could play a bit part in this discussion. Cats fans are almost certain of a grand final appearance for their side and the Hawks are currently 2 games clear on top.

Both sides might play off in the grand final to end 10 years of shitfighting.

You should probably visit the Geelong board, or just talk to Geelong fans (who don't post outlandish threads on the main board). Confidence of a flag, or even a GF appearance is very low.

 

[Seeds]

Great argument. A 13 year old would be fully convinced by the sad face retort.

 

[Hawkk]

Dwarfs? Absolutely ridiculous call.
We win it this year it'll be 4-4 but our winning % during our dominance is superior, more AAs, more brownlow's more awards in general, generally our side is better and H2H proves it.

Then there are injuries, what a dream run you guys have had. Only ever had injuries mid season and we've been carrying injured players like Menzel, McCarthy, Cowan, Vardy and various injured ruckman since 2012.
They have all been on our injury list for years.
I wouldn't have minded these guys plus Enright and Chapman in that 2013 PF. Your club is so blessed to be in this discussion.

Why no b2b? Geelong's failed attempts to defend their premiership (as 25 or so have achieved in the past - inc Adelaide 1997/98) will ensure that the Geelong era will only ever be considered a 1993-2000 North Melbourne type era.

The Hawthorn Football Club by contrast achieved a threepeat of flags (from 4 GFs in a row) and is chasing a historic Four-Thorn. This of course is an achievement that dwarfs anything that the Geelong Cats have achieved in their history...

As for the 2013 PF, that of course was the game that the Hawthorn Football Club dominated. Inside 50s, Scoring Shots, Clearances the lot. The Cats gave away their chance at winning what was an unlikely flag when they went down at the land of the spud potato in what was an unexpected suburban QF against the Dockers. Had you 'bradburyed' the PF you would have been flogged in the GF against Fremantle.

Lets not forget that the Cats have a 1-5 record in finals under Joel Selwood's leadership...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I think reasonable to say their best was better. They were less consistent though.

Cats for mine.

Rubbish.

Their best doesn't get within 6 goals of Hawthorn's. Jesus, have a look at our 2008 team that this alleged Cats "greatest team of all" were belted by despite the Hawks having two players out of the game by half time.

And then have a look at their s**t forward line. And they talk up their midfield as though it is super human when the reality is that the Hawthorn midfield is the equal of any that the Cats can put out. Their one area of dominance is their defense. Scarlett, Egan, Taylor, Enright and co. are exceptional.

The "greatness" of the Cats team of the last decade is a myth perpetrated by beating a sub-standard Port team by a record GF margin. They reality is that they were a very good team who couldn't go B2B.

This Hawthorn mob have gone three in a row and are very likely to win it again. To even mention the Cats team in the same sentence is insulting.

 

[Hawkk]

Rubbish.

Their best doesn't get within 6 goals of Hawthorn's.

Have a look at their s**t forward line for a start. And they talk up their midfield as though it is super human when the reality is that the Hawthorn midfield is the equal of any that the Cats can put out. Their one area of dominance is their defense.

Exactly. We look back on the Cats supposed era with rose tinted glasses. The best they could muster was 2 flags from 3 successive GFs. The Hawks are gunning for a 4th successive flag from potentially 5th consecutive GFs (first time any club has achieved this feat since Hawthorn 1983-89). There really is no conversation...

 

[CyrilDaSquirrel]

Both sides might play off in the grand final to begin 10 years of shitfighting.

EFA

 

[Wojcinski]

Why no b2b? Geelong's failed attempts to defend their premiership (as 25 or so have achieved in the past - inc Adelaide 1997/98) will ensure that the Geelong era will only ever be considered a 1993-2000 North Melbourne type era.

Geelong has one b2b and two 3peats, including 7 in 9 years, but do carry on

 

[Hawkk]

Geelong has one b2b and two 3peats, including 7 in 9 years, but do carry on

Ah the cute little VFA flag grab. How civil of the AFL law committee to pat the Cats on the head and advise that suburban bush pennants won by Geelong West during the gold rush need not apply to the VFL/AFL which is a fundamentally different competition. Didnt Chris Scott provide credence to this whilst recognising that Jimmy Bartel was a great of the Geelong Football Club in its greatest era on Monday. Like the 150 year celebration in 2009 I guess the Cats have an issue vicariously recognising their 1880s 'success'

 

[caitsith01]

Team of champions in Geelong vs the champion team in hawthorn

Strongly disagree. One of the biggest problems Geelong had in 2008 was that the team was too interested in 'assists' and generally sharing it around, and didn't have enough players with the arrogance to take the game on solo. I mean, you guys partly won the 08 GF because you had a couple of guys on the day who were prepared to go for the ridiculous individual performance (Dew... ).

 

[Wojcinski]

Ah thr cute little VFA flag grab. How civil of the AFL law committee to pat the Cats on the head and advise that a suburbab bush pennants won by Geelong West during the gold rush need not apply to the VFL/AFL which is a fundamentally different competition. Didnt Chris Scott provide credence to this whilst recognising that Jimmy Bartel was a great of the Geelong Football Club in its greatest era on Monday. Like the 150 year celebration in 2009 I guess the Cats have an issue vicariously recognising their 1880s 'success'

So in other words you were wrong. Also the b2b was '51-'52

 

[Hawkk]

So in other words you were wrong. Also the b2b was '51-'52

Not at all. Like Hawthorn's success in the EDFL from 1902-1914 it has its place. Not quite a night flag but perhaps roughly equivalent to the ANFL Championship of Australia that was competed amongst the top VFL, SANFL and WANFL clubs in the 60s and 70s

2013-16 admittedly trumps 1951-52 right?

 

[Wojcinski]

Not at all. Like Hawthorn's success in the EDFL from 1902-1914 it has its place.

2013-16 admittedly trumps 1951-52 right?

Apology accepted

 

[Rockford]

Their best doesn't get within 6 goals of Hawthorn's. Jesus, have a look at our 2008 team that this alleged Cats "greatest team of all" were belted by despite the Hawks having two players out of the game by half time.

I feel as though you haven't watched a lot of football. You mention the Cats' best and then follow that up with the 2008 GF as a reference in which we were far, far from our best. Feel free to look at any of the next 11 H&A games after the 2008 GF (given they all fall in the period that the OP is referring to) between Geelong and the Hawks. The Cats winning record over that period of time (we won 11 straight against Hawthorn) is an amazing achievement for a team that wouldn't get within 6 goals of the opponent when both teams are at their best, don't you think?

 

[Established1870]

Go back and have a look at some of the pathetic muppets in both those sides. Add in Port Adelaide 2007 and it is absolutely factual to say that Geelong beat up on three of the worst losing GF sides of all time.

Mate get your hand off of it. The margin says we were crap on the day (and we were), but as I said before, I watched that whole game. It's the best effort from any side in a game in history. We had a lot of good young players that could've turned us into a dynasty (before the GF happened).

Any team coached by Ross Lyon is going to be strong and that '11 Collingwood side WERE REIGNING PREMIERS.

In your 3peat you've beaten a debuting GF side in Freo and a fairly s**t WCE side.

 

[STP18]

Mate get your hand off of it. The margin says we were crap on the day (and we were), but as I said before, I watched that whole game. It's the best effort from any side in a game in history. We had a lot of good young players that could've turned us into a dynasty (before the GF happened).

Any team coached by Ross Lyon is going to be strong and that '11 Collingwood side WERE REIGNING PREMIERS.

In your 3peat you've beaten a debuting GF side in Freo and a fairly s**t WCE side.

Agreed. If I had to compare I'd say:

Collingwood 2011 > St. Kilda 2009 > Sydney 2014/Port Adelaide 2007 > Fremantle 2013 > West Coast 2015

 

[Hawkk]

I feel as though you haven't watched a lot of football. You mention the Cats' best and then follow that up with the 2008 GF as a reference in which we were far, far from our best. Feel free to look at any of the next 11 H&A games after the 2008 GF (given they all fall in the period that the OP is referring to) between Geelong and the Hawks. The Cats winning record over that period of time (we won 11 straight against Hawthorn) is an amazing achievement for a team that wouldn't get within 6 goals of the opponent when both teams are at their best, don't you think?

Except Hawthorn's era peaked in the 2012 era onwards. Interestingly the famed streak was bookended by the 2008 Grand Final and 2013 Preliminary Final...

 

[Hawkk]

Agreed. If I had to compare I'd say:

Collingwood 2011 > St. Kilda 2009 > Sydney 2014/Port Adelaide 2007 > Fremantle 2013 > West Coast 2015

Really? A clearly inferior Hawthorn side almost rolled the 2011 Collingwood side. So much for them being nigh on invincable. If you want to acknowledge a weak year look no further than 2011...

Collingwood 20-2
Geelong 19-3
Hawthorn 18-4 (playing the second half of the season without Roughead)
West Coast 17-5

 

[Wojcinski]

Except Hawthorn's era peaked in the 2012 era onwards. Interestingly the famed streak was bookended by the 2008 Grand Final and 2013 Preliminary Final...

But also including a QF as well as both 2009 games, 2009 being a year Hawthorn missed the top 8 on percentage.

 

[Hawkk]

Mate get your hand off of it. The margin says we were crap on the day (and we were), but as I said before, I watched that whole game. It's the best effort from any side in a game in history. We had a lot of good young players that could've turned us into a dynasty (before the GF happened).

Any team coached by Ross Lyon is going to be strong and that '11 Collingwood side WERE REIGNING PREMIERS.

In your 3peat you've beaten a debuting GF side in Freo and a fairly s**t WCE side.

Pfft. Dynasty is one of the most flippantly overused terms of football. Like Port Adelaide 2013-14 its extremely doubtful Port Adelaide would have established a dynasty after 2007. There have only really been 5 dynasties over the last 50 years...

Richmond 1967-1982 (5 flags, 7 GFs)
Carlton 1968-1985 (7 flags, 10 GFs)
Hawthorn 1971-1991 (8 flags, 12 GFs)
Brisbane 2001-04 (3 flags, 4 GFs)
Hawthorn 2008-2016 (4 flags, 5 GFs and counting)

I guess Port were destined for great things right?