2008 PDFL split

[its game on]

Re: New Competition

Reckon that "the players must live within 100kms" knocks out all the uni students in Melb or where ever they study who want come home to play.

I would think this would be very difficult to police.

 

[Marto121]

Re: New Competition

Reckon that "the players must live within 100kms" knocks out all the uni students in Melb or where ever they study who want come home to play.

I would think this would be very difficult to police.

I would agree with this it just seemed to complicated and (no offense) seemed biased to your club, Mathoura, but the idea of merging the MFL and PDFL sounds good with relegation and promotion but it could cause problems with Juniors because if you get a club e.g Waaia who has a strong seniors side but a not so strong thirds side that comes up against a really good MFL team and gets thrashed every week that could jeopardies the clubs future as the kids may not want to hang around there in their later years. To be honest no one or the vcfl will be able to come up with a league that pleases everybody and its highly likely that at least 1 club will get pissed off.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: New Competition

I would agree with this it just seemed to complicated and (no offense) seemed biased to your club, Mathoura, but the idea of merging the MFL and PDFL sounds good with relegation and promotion but it could cause problems with Juniors because if you get a club e.g Waaia who has a strong seniors side but a not so strong thirds side that comes up against a really good MFL team and gets thrashed every week that could jeopardies the clubs future as the kids may not want to hang around there in their later years. To be honest no one or the vcfl will be able to come up with a league that pleases everybody and its highly likely that at least 1 club will get pissed off.

Marto tried not to be biased and don't worry would force Mathoura into a complete rebuilding phase the same as many other clubs. I guess I brought it up as a lot of the smaller townships seem to really bottom out and then have a couple of good years, in the mean time supporters jump on and off and players are always to and froing. For example you Guys and Deni were down and copped quite a few beatings in 2006 the same as Yarra, Wunghnu and Mathoura has this past weekend, yet are now enjoy success. I don't think it is good for the comp, clubs nor players for there to be such a big difference in the comp.
I relation to the juniors and differences, I think you would find that clubs would tend to put more time into their junior developement and after some time those with strong senior sides would have the best junior developement.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: New Competition

Reckon that "the players must live within 100kms" knocks out all the uni students in Melb or where ever they study who want come home to play.

I would think this would be very difficult to police.

Maybe not well enough explained, say if your juniors went away to uni, it would allow players to travel back for 2 years, without being classed a non local.

 

[GrassKat]

Re: New Competition

Ex TFL: Dookie United (2007), Shepp East (2006), Katandra (1998, 2003, 2004), Katamatite (1996, 2001), Tungamah (1999)

Numurkah Area: Katunga, Strathmerton (1997), Waaia (1995, 2002, 2005), Wunghnu, Picola United, Yarroweyah

NSW: Berrigan, Blighty (2000), Deni Rovers, Jerilderie, Mathoura

Premiership years in brackets, since 1995.

Other than for Damien Sexton's work at Blighty, the silverware hasn't seen too much past Numurkah in recent years.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: New Competition

Marto the other point I think you might be missing is that the top div, 8 clubs, this system would not effect at all, other than when they wished to re-build.
Look, obviously the top sides at the moment may not look at this positively, but hey it aint the long ago as I keep repeating, that we, Mathoura, played Dookie and Deni and those clubs struggled to have enough supporters to fill a car, yet last year the supporter base of both was tremendous with standing room only.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: New Competition

Too complicated Pace To Freeze.

Definately needs some sort of split. I have always liked the idea of merging the PDFL and MFL together and forming a 3 division league.

I agree it would be almost impossible to police. Great concept though. iwantanotherflag I have posted a new thread to vote on and discuss a MFL/PDFL 3 division league.

 

[theintimidator]

MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

Here’s my go at spliting the league to a more managable size. Below I have put an example of a 3 tiered system including all 29 clubs currently involved in the MFL and PDFL. In this model Promotion/Relegation would be used to advance or demote teams between the leagues but only after showing a history of overwelming strength or weakness in their current league over a number of years.

Tier 1

Nathalia
Mulwala
Barooga
Echuca Utd
Finley
Congupna
Deni Rams
Rumbalara
Numurkah
Tocumwal

Tier 2

Tongala
Moama
Cobram
Katandra
Shepp East
Waaia
Dookie Utd
Tungamah
Picola Utd
Blighty

Tier 3

Jerilderie
Katunga
Strathmerton
Yarroweyah
Deni Rovers
Berrigan
Wunghnu
Katamatite
Mathoura

A 30th side could be included to make all leagues 10 sides strong. Perhaps the Barmah Fererals or Moira Ramblers could reform?

What do you all think?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

Here’s my go at spliting the league to a more managable size. Below I have put an example of a 3 tiered system including all 29 clubs currently involved in the MFL and PDFL. In this model Promotion/Relegation would be used to advance or demote teams between the leagues but only after showing a history of overwelming strength or weakness in their current league over a number of years.

Tier 1

Nathalia
Mulwala
Barooga
Echuca Utd
Finley
Congupna
Deni Rams
Rumbalara
Numurkah
Tocumwal

Tier 2

Tongala
Moama
Cobram
Katandra
Shepp East
Waaia
Dookie Utd
Tungamah
Picola Utd
Blighty

Tier 3

Jerilderie
Katunga
Strathmerton
Yarroweyah
Deni Rovers
Berrigan
Wunghnu
Katamatite
Mathoura

A 30th side could be included to make all leagues 10 sides strong. Perhaps the Barmah Fererals or Moira Ramblers could reform?

What do you all think?

the splitting of this is always going to be difficult, for example United, Congupna and Finley I don't would have as much success as Moama in the last tens years, ie playing finals. Also up here in Echuca either Moama or United are generally strong not both at some time. In the middle teir I think you would find Blighty and Picola would get blown away by Tongala, Cobram. Whilst in the bottom teir you have berrigan, deni, and katunga all which will possibly be top 4 in the pdfl against what could be the 6 bottom sides. Hey love the discussion but don't know whether this will even things up ??
Do think the combination of both our ideas would be good.

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

I have always said that this is the best option, the 30th club could also come from the likes of Rennie, or the Billabong Crows

 

[GrassKat]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

I have always said that this is the best option, the 30th club could also come from the likes of Rennie, or the Billabong Crows

If this goes ahead, you'd have to give the MFL a bit of notice... Finish bottom 3 and participate in div 2.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

the splitting of this is always going to be difficult, for example United, Congupna and Finley I don't would have as much success as Moama in the last tens years, ie playing finals. Also up here in Echuca either Moama or United are generally strong not both at some time. In the middle teir I think you would find Blighty and Picola would get blown away by Tongala, Cobram. Whilst in the bottom teir you have berrigan, deni, and katunga all which will possibly be top 4 in the pdfl against what could be the 6 bottom sides. Hey love the discussion but don't know whether this will even things up ??
Do think the combination of both our ideas would be good.

First of all this was only an example of a three tier system I only based it on teams history/success from 06 and 07 seasons. Obviously the VCFL would need to spend more time looking into a ot more factors to decide the split such as long term success and a teams ability to compete and improve.

Secondly you believe that Cobram and Tongala would blow away a few of the teams in second division. But remember that Tongala are only a few years out of the GVFL and getting pumped in by most MFL clubs. So I dont think there is a big a difference as you think.

At the end of the day in any league there has to be winners and losers but with this system with promotion and relegation (which works very well in other sports and aussie rules in places) the competion will be as close as possible. Especially after a few years to sort itself out.

Im sure clubs such as Wunghnu,Katamatite, and Mathoura would prefer to play each other twice than to play Katandra, Dookie, Waaia, Tungamah Etc.

PTF you have posted an alternative to this which is an Professional Division and a Ameture Division. I think what you would find is that my 3 level system would effecivly sort the teams out in much the same way by default. The teams who dont recruit i:e katty, yarroweyah, Mathoura etc will find themselves in Div 3 and those who do recruit consistantly will end up in the higher Divs.

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

this has been a topic for quite a while now, how do we get the message through to the VCFL?

 

[theintimidator]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

this has been a topic for quite a while now, how do we get the message through to the VCFL?

We can start by getting as many people as possible to vote for it on this poll and then maybe send an email. I know somone who used to work in for the VCFL he may be able to direct us to the right person.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

First of all this was only an example of a three tier system I only based it on teams history/success from 06 and 07 seasons. Obviously the VCFL would need to spend more time looking into a ot more factors to decide the split such as long term success and a teams ability to compete and improve.

Secondly you believe that Cobram and Tongala would blow away a few of the teams in second division. But remember that Tongala are only a few years out of the GVFL and getting pumped in by most MFL clubs. So I dont think there is a big a difference as you think.

At the end of the day in any league there has to be winners and losers but with this system with promotion and relegation (which works very well in other sports and aussie rules in places) the competion will be as close as possible. Especially after a few years to sort itself out.

Im sure clubs such as Wunghnu,Katamatite, and Mathoura would prefer to play each other twice than to play Katandra, Dookie, Waaia, Tungamah Etc.

PTF you have posted an alternative to this which is an Professional Division and a Ameture Division. I think what you would find is that my 3 level system would effecivly sort the teams out in much the same way by default. The teams who dont recruit i:e katty, yarroweyah, Mathoura etc will find themselves in Div 3 and those who do recruit consistantly will end up in the higher Divs.

There is a huge difference between Tongala and Picola and I think I may have some idea.
Picola's only home grown talent that would go close to matching Tonny's home grown talent in the last 15 years would be Russel Deisel Byrnes.
Here's a few of Tonny's, Reid x3, M.Souter, B.Nexip, Campbell x 2, A.Brunt, S.Hansen, J.Trevaskis, Nunn x 3, Connally x 2, Connelly x 2, G.Atkins, Cox x 2 , B.Warburton, Geddes, Snelson !!!! oh and I forgot iwantanotherflag thats to start.
My concern is as much for my club as it is for the other clubs which are peeking and troughing, going through the past 10 years I reckon possibley 6-7 sides have spent up and played finals and then to fall away significantly. The only consistant finalist have been Katandra, Tungamah and Waaia, with Tunga missing last year and Waaia out in straight sets the last two seasons.
The best thing is it's creating interest !!!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

We can start by getting as many people as possible to vote for it on this poll and then maybe send an email. I know somone who used to work in for the VCFL he may be able to direct us to the right person.

The VCFL will not consider any recommendation from anyone other than their affliated leagues on matters such as this.
It needs to be bought up by the club delegates with the recommendation then forwarded onto the VCFL by the PDFL.

 

[BULLET!]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

The VCFL will not consider any recommendation from anyone other than their affliated leagues on matters such as this.
It needs to be bought up by the club delegates with the recommendation then forwarded onto the VCFL by the PDFL.

there surely has to be some pdfl teams that could get in div 1
mul deserve to be in div 3 the way they recuited and lost

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

there surely has to be some pdfl teams that could get in div 1
mul deserve to be in div 3 the way they recuited and lost

I agree if sides in the Murray league were using solely home grown talent against say a Katandra's home grown talent yes it would be a great contest, the problem is most Murray league sides have a bigger population to draw from , $$$$ , I know $ 60,000 at least it not uncommon to be spent in the Murray League over a long period of time. I don't know of any PDFL club which could afford that sort of dough over a sustained period. Hey if I get a chance today I'll do some population stats of the towns involved both PDFL and MFL, and I'll also try to confirm the VCFL's position.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

There is a huge difference between Tongala and Picola and I think I may have some idea.
Picola's only home grown talent that would go close to matching Tonny's home grown talent in the last 15 years would be Russel Deisel Byrnes.
Here's a few of Tonny's, Reid x3, M.Souter, B.Nexip, Campbell x 2, A.Brunt, S.Hansen, J.Trevaskis, Nunn x 3, Connally x 2, Connelly x 2, G.Atkins, Cox x 2 , B.Warburton, Geddes, Snelson !!!! oh and I forgot iwantanotherflag thats to start.
My concern is as much for my club as it is for the other clubs which are peeking and troughing, going through the past 10 years I reckon possibley 6-7 sides have spent up and played finals and then to fall away significantly. The only consistant finalist have been Katandra, Tungamah and Waaia, with Tunga missing last year and Waaia out in straight sets the last two seasons.
The best thing is it's creating interest !!!

Fair call there are some big names there but you must admit that Tongala's record in the murray league over the past 2 years has been dismall were they should be (by your theory) very competitive in a lower league than GV. Over the years I have seen/played practice/night series matches between MFL clubs and PDFL clubs and I strongly beleive that the top 5-6 Pdfl Clubs could compete against the bottom 2-3 MFL clubs. Sure Tongala may beat picola (as an example only) in this proposed div2 but do you think the score line would be as drastic as Strathy's season high 166 point win over Yarroweyah on saturday? or Katungas over Mathoura? My point is ,as I have said before, that there will be winners and losers but by using promotion/relegation surely it would be as even as possible!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

Fair call there are some big names there but you must admit that Tongala's record in the murray league over the past 2 years has been dismall were they should be (by your theory) very competitive in a lower league than GV. Over the years I have seen/played practice/night series matches between MFL clubs and PDFL clubs and I strongly beleive that the top 5-6 Pdfl Clubs could compete against the bottom 2-3 MFL clubs. Sure Tongala may beat picola (as an example only) in this proposed div2 but do you think the score line would be as drastic as Strathy's season high 166 point win over Yarroweyah on saturday? or Katungas over Mathoura? My point is ,as I have said before, that there will be winners and losers but by using promotion/relegation surely it would be as even as possible!

In short, yes. To give you an example I played in the 2000 PDFL rep side and then Echuca United in 2001 and as unbiased opinion the United side would have beaten the PDFL rep side from the previous year and the United side finished around 10th in the Murray league that season.
Back onto Tonny they are in complete rebuild stage with Roberts being their only recruit since been in the league, to my re-collection, and having played around 100 games with them and having played a similar amount in PDFL there is a huge difference, and based on where there at with their re-building I think we should be comparing them with sides that are going through a similar phase ie Katty, Yarraweah, Mathoura ???
Hey I'm glad there is a general feeling that the current system is no good, the more alternatives that get brought up the better, at least they might do something and get it right !!!!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

Well just got off the blower from a friend of a friend who is apparently in the know. In summary the VCFL has apparently received a number concerns from clubs within the GM and Southern NSW, re zoning. My gut feeling is that Rennie, Billabong Crows, Hay and Wakool may join the current PDFL clubs and two comps formed, with one being VCFL controlled and the other controlled by the NSW body, to counter difficulties NSW clubs face with inavailability to Government grants , Rep sides and the like. So intimadator we both may be well off. I did discuss both our thoughts and to be honest neither appeared to gain much interest. I think mainly due to the complication/ monitoring of my proposal and the concern of sides to and froing between comps in the relegation/derelegation proposal.
Who knows what will happen, but one thing that was stressed is that all recommendations must come via the League.

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

Well just got off the blower from a friend of a friend who is apparently in the know. In summary the VCFL has apparently received a number concerns from clubs within the GM and Southern NSW, re zoning. My gut feeling is that Rennie, Billabong Crows, Hay and Wakool may join the current PDFL clubs and two comps formed, with one being VCFL controlled and the other controlled by the NSW body, to counter difficulties NSW clubs face with inavailability to Government grants , Rep sides and the like. So intimadator we both may be well off. I did discuss both our thoughts and to be honest neither appeared to gain much interest. I think mainly due to the complication/ monitoring of my proposal and the concern of sides to and froing between comps in the relegation/derelegation proposal.
Who knows what will happen, but one thing that was stressed is that all recommendations must come via the League.

There is no way the current NSW teams will be voting to establish such a league with the mentioned sides. I know that this is on the VCFL's agenda but i cannot see it happening. It would spell the end of footy in southern NSW. Both Hay and Wakool cannt field a 2nds side at the moment. Cannt see it happening, and from a Deni Rovers point of view i hope it doesnt happen. We need to stay under the VCFL banner IMO. Dont know if the division 1,2 and 3 would work either. Netball and Junior numbers is my only concern. I know you have been saying that clubs need to put more into their Junior development but if there are no Kids around playing football (be because of other sports of because of the drought etc) it is hard to develop what you havent got. Will be interesting to see how it shapes out.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

There is no way the current NSW teams will be voting to establish such a league with the mentioned sides. I know that this is on the VCFL's agenda but i cannot see it happening. It would spell the end of footy in southern NSW. Both Hay and Wakool cannt field a 2nds side at the moment. Cannt see it happening, and from a Deni Rovers point of view i hope it doesnt happen. We need to stay under the VCFL banner IMO. Dont know if the division 1,2 and 3 would work either. Netball and Junior numbers is my only concern. I know you have been saying that clubs need to put more into their Junior development but if there are no Kids around playing football (be because of other sports of because of the drought etc) it is hard to develop what you havent got. Will be interesting to see how it shapes out.

I agree I beleive that a north/south - VIC/NSW system or a least a system divided geographicly was proposed when the CGVFL was disolved and they were talking about adding the likes of Yea. The propsal was rejected by the current PDFL members then and would be rejected again. This system of dividing clubs into divisions because of their geographical area would be the least fairest way of doing it out of all the proposed systems.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

There is no way the current NSW teams will be voting to establish such a league with the mentioned sides. I know that this is on the VCFL's agenda but i cannot see it happening. It would spell the end of footy in southern NSW. Both Hay and Wakool cannt field a 2nds side at the moment. Cannt see it happening, and from a Deni Rovers point of view i hope it doesnt happen. We need to stay under the VCFL banner IMO. Dont know if the division 1,2 and 3 would work either. Netball and Junior numbers is my only concern. I know you have been saying that clubs need to put more into their Junior development but if there are no Kids around playing football (be because of other sports of because of the drought etc) it is hard to develop what you havent got. Will be interesting to see how it shapes out.

I'm hearing u , even worst I think hay and Wakool might have one junior grade U16, which would be in direct opposition to the newly formed Deni U16 sides. Mind you I'd be dissapointed if the southern NSW sides didn't see this coming when Shepp East and Dookie came into the comp, and oppose it yet, that still went ahead, majority rules .

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: MFL/PDFL 3 Division System

I'm hearing u , even worst I think hay and Wakool might have one junior grade U16, which would be in direct opposition to the newly formed Deni U16 sides. Mind you I'd be dissapointed if the southern NSW sides didn't see this coming when Shepp East and Dookie came into the comp, and oppose it yet, that still went ahead, majority rules .

This came up and we all said a big NO!, Would be luckey to get a team (out of the four grades combined!) that would travel up to Hay. Berrigan is happy in VCFL and PDFL. I think the last proposal of this kind is on the PDFL thread.