Draft Review 2008 - Re-do the 2008 draft

[the distributer]

There is not a player in the AFL that would not run out with a niggle of some sort. Supporters pump there players up to be a lot better than what they are and when they fall short of these lofty standards the excuses roll in - injured, played out of position, no pre-season fitness base, poor delivery, playing in a poor side etc etc

I could name so many players that get a free pass from supporters because of those examples above. Some get more than 1 rolled out for them - look at Michael Hurley and the reasons you get for his under achieving:

Rarely plays 4 quarters - "he was in a moon boot this pre-season - watch out if he has a full pre-season - will tear the comp apart"

Marking is poor - "He has had wrist operations that have not allowed him to clunk the ball - wait until his wrists are better - he will tear the comp apart"

Runs under the ball - "Our midfield delivery is terrible and does not give him a chance - wait until we get some decent mids - he will tear the comp apart"

Not a very good CHF - "He is a gun defender played out of position - wait until he is moved back - he will tear the comp apart"

Very true.

 

[Ambrosia]

There is not a player in the AFL that would not run out with a niggle of some sort. Supporters pump there players up to be a lot better than what they are and when they fall short of these lofty standards the excuses roll in - injured, played out of position, no pre-season fitness base, poor delivery, playing in a poor side etc etc

I could name so many players that get a free pass from supporters because of those examples above. Some get more than 1 rolled out for them - look at Michael Hurley and the reasons you get for his under achieving:

Rarely plays 4 quarters - "he was in a moon boot this pre-season - watch out if he has a full pre-season - will tear the comp apart"

Marking is poor - "He has had wrist operations that have not allowed him to clunk the ball - wait until his wrists are better - he will tear the comp apart.

Not a very good CHF - "He is a gun defender played out of position - wait until he is moved back - he will tear the comp apart"

Not all supporters give Hurley a free pass and I imagine most fair minded Essendon supporters would agree that he's unlikely to live up to his early hype.

However I do believe injuries are a legitimate excuse as to why a player is under performing.

 

[Wild Bill]

Not all supporters give Hurley a free pass and I imagine most fair minded Essendon supporters would agree that he's unlikely to live up to his early hype.

However I do believe injuries are a legitimate excuse as to why a player is under performing.

Yeah - but there comes a time when the excuses start to add up and may not be the main reason they have not reached their potential. The Roos are no different - Jack Ziebell - 2 broken legs is why he has no fitness base, Wells - had OP for years and was the reason he under achieved for so long, Hanson - not a forward – played out of position.

The best don't make excuses - Carey's shoulders were shot after 95, Voss had a terrible broken leg, Hird with his navicular. They all became greats of the game after having some serious injuries.

 

[Ambrosia]

Yeah - but there comes a time when the excuses start to add up and may not be the main reason they have not reached their potential. The Roos are no different - Jack Ziebell - 2 broken legs is why he has no fitness base, Wells - had OP for years and was the reason he under achieved for so long, Hanson - not a forward – played out of position.

The best don't make excuses - Carey's shoulders were shot after 95, Voss had a terrible broken leg, Hird with his navicular. They all became greats of the game after having some serious injuries.

I agree to an extent. My point is if by some miracle Hurley were to play 22 games next year my bet is that he would have a very good year regardless of position.

 

[Big Fresh]

Both output and potential factoring into this:
1. Naitanui (could be an all time great - some of the best tapwork and work at ground level I've ever seen from a ruckman)
2. Beams (easily better than all the other midfielders and is already elite)
3. Sloane (obviously a gun)
4. Hurley (potential based - would be the best key defender [okay, maybe behind Taylor (maybe)] in the comp if played there regularly, and not just at shutting down [though that is one of his strengths] - in the back line his contested marking is top notch and his field kicking is markedly better than his goal kicking)
5. Shuey (had an off season, will really stand out next year - AA wouldn't surprise me)
6. Motlop (extremely damaging and deserved AA his year)
7. Hannebery (overrated and not worthy of AA in my opinion, but still a very good player and like Goddard is essentially, though not in reality, a Norm Smith medalist)
8. Zaharakis (can tear games apart - if he can play as well in the second half of the season as he does in the first, Essendon will finish top four...he's extremely important to our success)
9. Hartlett (sublimely talented player who will improve)
10. Sidebottom (talented but not sufficiently dominant and a bit of a flat track bully)

 

[Wild Bill]

I agree to an extent. My point is if by some miracle Hurley were to play 22 games next year my bet is that he would have a very good year regardless of position.

I think he could play 22 games and be a good player - not the player he was hyped to become after 2009. Already there is an expectation that he won't play 22 and we will get another round of excuses.

 

[Danair]

Both output and potential factoring into this:
1. Naitanui (could be an all time great - some of the best tapwork and work at ground level I've ever seen from a ruckman)
2. Beams (easily better than all the other midfielders and is already elite)
3. Sloane (obviously a gun)
4. Hurley (potential based - would be the best key defender [okay, maybe behind Taylor (maybe)] in the comp if played there regularly, and not just at shutting down [though that is one of his strengths] - in the back line his contested marking is top notch and his field kicking is markedly better than his goal kicking)
5. Shuey (had an off season, will really stand out next year - AA wouldn't surprise me)
6. Motlop (extremely damaging and deserved AA his year)
7. Hannebery (overrated and not worthy of AA in my opinion, but still a very good player and like Goddard is essentially, though not in reality, a Norm Smith medalist)
8. Zaharakis (can tear games apart - if he can play as well in the second half of the season as he does in the first, Essendon will finish top four...he's extremely important to our success)
9. Hartlett (sublimely talented player who will improve)
10. Sidebottom (talented but not sufficiently dominant and a bit of a flat track bully)

 

[the distributer]

Both output and potential factoring into this:
1. Naitanui (could be an all time great - some of the best tapwork and work at ground level I've ever seen from a ruckman)
2. Beams (easily better than all the other midfielders and is already elite)
3. Sloane (obviously a gun)
4. Hurley (potential based - would be the best key defender [okay, maybe behind Taylor (maybe)] in the comp if played there regularly, and not just at shutting down [though that is one of his strengths] - in the back line his contested marking is top notch and his field kicking is markedly better than his goal kicking)
5. Shuey (had an off season, will really stand out next year - AA wouldn't surprise me)
6. Motlop (extremely damaging and deserved AA his year)
7. Hannebery (overrated and not worthy of AA in my opinion, but still a very good player and like Goddard is essentially, though not in reality, a Norm Smith medalist)
8. Zaharakis (can tear games apart - if he can play as well in the second half of the season as he does in the first, Essendon will finish top four...he's extremely important to our success)
9. Hartlett (sublimely talented player who will improve)
10. Sidebottom (talented but not sufficiently dominant and a bit of a flat track bully)

Just on Sidebottom, out of the 3 GFs we've played over the last few years overall he's probably been our best player, went within a whisker of the NS in 2010.

I do feel he's a bit overrated though, good player but I feel his ceiling isn't as high as some from his draft, also his disposal is criminally overrated by some, I've seen him go a month without hitting a target but then the next month he won't miss one, very inconsistent, I blame his ridiculous ball drop.

 

[Wild Bill]

Wow - now Hurley is the best defender in the comp. He would not be the best defender at your club let alone in the AFL. He would be number 2 defender at a lot of clubs. Including mine.

 

[cotter101]

Just on Sidebottom, out of the 3 GFs we've played over the last few years overall he's probably been our best player, went within a whisker of the NS in 2010.

I do feel he's a bit overrated though, good player but I feel his ceiling isn't as high as some from his draft, also his disposal is criminally overrated by some, I've seen him go a month without hitting a target but then the next month he won't miss one, very inconsistent, I blame his ridiculous ball drop.

Was spewing when he didn't win. Had some money on him and had him in a sweep too. It's good to have players who can really step up on the big stage.

 

[Big Fresh]

How can Hurley be overrated when the vast majority of people on Big Footy slag him off at every opportunity? When every second person is calling him overrated, he ceases to be rated highly, so we're now at the point where he's underrated.

The opposite happens with interstate players: because they're seen less people will say they're underrated so much to the point where they are overrated. And this isn't a bias thing - I think Jack is currently in the five best midfielders in the game and Kennedy is easily the best pure inside player, and that Sydney on the whole probably has the best midfield...but Hannebery is behind Jack, Kennedy, McVeigh and even O'Keefe in my opinion. Not elite as people are saying.

 

[Big Fresh]

Wow - now Hurley is the best defender in the comp. He would not be the best defender at your club let alone in the AFL. He would be number 2 defender at a lot of clubs. Including mine.

That's not saying as much as you seem to think it is. If he proved to be marginally inferior to Carlisle and Thompson - though, and this is obviously speculative, I think he would be better - he'd still be good enough for where I placed him. If you think he's nowhere near as good as those two, then we just disagree.

 

[ShinjiOno]

I'd take Vickery ahead of Hurley now.

 

[Danair]

How can Hurley be overrated when the vast majority of people on Big Footy slag him off at every opportunity? When every second person is calling him overrated, he ceases to be rated highly, so we're now at the point where he's underrated.

The opposite happens with interstate players: because they're seen less people will say they're underrated so much to the point where they are overrated. And this isn't a bias thing - I think Jack is currently in the five best midfielders in the game and Kennedy is easily the best pure inside player, and that Sydney on the whole probably has the best midfield...but Hannebery is behind Jack, Kennedy, McVeigh and even O'Keefe in my opinion. Not elite as people are saying.

I just thought it was odd that you called Hannebery overrated (rising star medal, runner up Norm Smith, All Australian, 5th in the brownlow) while dramatically overrating Hurley (who really hasn't achieved anything) yourself.

 

[Big Fresh]

I'd take Vickery ahead of Hurley now.

You realise that despite being subbed off early in three games, drawing the best defender each week, and either being played out of position or playing in defence, Hurley still kicked more goals per game than Vickery this season?

Can't imagine you put much thought into that comment. Or you're trolling.

 

[Big Fresh]

I just thought it was odd that you called Hannebery overrated (rising star medal, runner up Norm Smith, All Australian, 5th in the brownlow) while dramatically overrating Hurley (who really hasn't achieved anything) yourself.

Fair enough, I can see how you'd see it like that.

 

[ShinjiOno]

You realise that despite being subbed off early in three games, drawing the best defender each week, and either being played out of position or playing in defence, Hurley still kicked more goals per game than Vickery this season?.

Firstly, I don't buy the fact that Hurley got the best defender.

Secondly, apart from CHF, playing as a KPF then a Part Time ruck, is the most difficult position in the AFL.

 

[Wild Bill]

You realise that despite being subbed off early in three games, drawing the best defender each week, and either being played out of position or playing in defence, Hurley still kicked more goals per game than Vickery this season?

Can't imagine you put much thought into that comment. Or you're trolling.

In 2012 I put up Hurley and Aaron Edwards stats - they were nearly identical. Just had a look at 2013 and once again their averages are the same. He is just not that good. Unless you think Edwards is a superstar?

 

[Big Fresh]

Firstly, I don't buy the fact that Hurley got the best defender.

Secondly, apart from CHF, playing as a KPF then a Part Time ruck, is the most difficult position in the AFL.

Come on, man. It's not even disputable that Hurley got the best defender.

Vickery won't even be playing in the ruck next year and didn't do it much/well enough this year to the point that Richmond recruited Hampson as support for Maric.

 

[Big Fresh]

In 2012 I put up Hurley and Aaron Edwards stats - they were nearly identical. Just had a look at 2013 and once again their averages are the same. He is just not that good. Unless you think Edwards is a superstar?

No I don't think Hurley is a superstar forward at all. But I think he's still a better forward than Vickery.

 

[Ambrosia]

I think he could play 22 games and be a good player - not the player he was hyped to become after 2009. Already there is an expectation that he won't play 22 and we will get another round of excuses.

Hurley's injuries really aren't as trivial as you make out. There aren't many players in the league that would put together a good season when they tear their hamstring twice and do their ankle not including his on going wrists which will never be right.

I know you'll shoot me down for this but Hurley is better defender than Carlisle because he is much better on the athletic leading types and is head shoulders above Carlisle in terms of ball use.

 

[Wild Bill]

No I don't think Hurley is a superstar forward at all. But I think he's still a better forward than Vickery.

I would take Hurley over Vickery.

 

[Ambrosia]

Firstly, I don't buy the fact that Hurley got the best defender.

So who did then? Bellchambers? Crameri?

Secondly, apart from CHF, playing as a KPF then a Part Time ruck, is the most difficult position in the AFL.

Hurley plays CHF...

 

[Wild Bill]

Hurley's injuries really aren't as trivial as you make out. There aren't many players in the league that would put together a good season when they tear their hamstring twice and do their ankle not including his on going wrists which will never be right.

I know you'll shoot me down for this but Hurley is better defender than Carlisle because he is much better on the athletic leading types and is head shoulders above Carlisle in terms of ball use.

If I had the pick of Essendons list I would take Carlisle. I rate him a better defender and forward. Much better hands and reads the play much better. Kicking is the only thing Hurley has on him.

 

[Ambrosia]

If I had the pick of Essendons list I would take Carlisle. I rate him a better defender and forward. Much better hands and reads the play much better. Kicking is the only thing Hurley has on him.

Hurley and Carlisle sought of read the play differently. Carlisle is far better at picking off long bombs into the forward line and going third man up and marking the ball but Hurley regularly leads his opponent to the ball and chops off leads better than Carlisle imo.

I don't think Hurley's ability to read the play as a forward is the reason he runs under the ball so often. It's more to do with only wanting to take chest marks and from what I've seen he seems to worry more about what his opponent is doing when he plays forward compared with when he plays as a defender as weird as that sounds.