2009 Gone

[Crow-mo]

its one thing to miss the finals, I thought we'd be about the mark but at this stage we may be getting our highest draft pick ever. fine whatever.

but I'm not too keen on this thing where we drop our bundle when the pressure is on. that's the route one to obscurity not a step towards rebuilding.

 

[Crow-mo]

There will never be a losing culture under Craig, it's not in his nature.

because every club wants to make a habit of losing? c'mon.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

There will never be a losing culture under Craig, it's not in his nature.

On speaking to most of the team this weekend on a one on one basis, the disappointment and frustration is evident but by far overwhelmed by the general excitement of what the team is trying to achieve. They all know they have to do it better, but they all seem to know that once they do, they will be a force to be reckoned with. I've never felt so confident in our future or this bunch of players Craig is moulding.

Thats the essence of 2009 isn't it Jenny ........we are definately on the up with some great young players .......the best collective of young players the Crows have ever assembled/

For supporters to rip into youngsters that have less than 20 games under their belt is poor

For interstate commentators to be totally ignorant of what the club is doing, the talent we have assembled and Craigs vision is even worse and shows that anything outside of Victoria they are basically are clueless

For supporters and Commentators to query Craig who IMO knows exactly where he is going and the type of recruits he wants for his team shows they don't follow what's happening very closely

That said I do believe Craig got caught this year .........he did say PS that he felt with the zones likely to be implemented this year that the game would slow ......and IMO the Crows trained PS for that eventuality with plenty of switches and the so called crab movement

Fact is the game has gotten faster with most teams looking to run the ball thru zones .........IMO Craig has had to change tact mid season to adapt to the faster game ..........first mis-call I can remember him making

 

[birdmanptr]

That's pleasing to hear but I wonder how guys like McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Doughty etc feel about that. That we're planning for the future but they're basically in their last season or so, so won't be part of it.

Thats life nothing you can do about it they wont be the first champs of any club to be at the end of their time and watching the next phase being built.

For 3 of them its not like they have had no success

For me 09 was never about making finals or winning this game or that game it was all about getting time into the next chapter of the club and from what i have seen so far its looking ok.

The only concern i have is our ruckman dont appear to be comming on as quickly as i would like maybe we have to look at the ruck coach and lets not forget Matt was a great tap ruckman but how would he go about teaching some one about marking

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Thats life nothing you can do about it they wont be the first champs of any club to be at the end of their time and watching the next phase being built.

I agree.

So what is the natural extension of that? What effect does it have on the team?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The only concern i have is our ruckman dont appear to be comming on as quickly as i would like maybe we have to look at the ruck coach and lets not forget Matt was a great tap ruckman but how would he go about teaching some one about marking

Jus bear in mind that Griffin and Maric have ONLY played about 30 games .....Moran less

I'd say if the average AFL player doesn't get that feel for the game till 50 games ....then I'd suggest for a ruckman its likely to be about 75 games, but more importantly its generally when ruckman are 24-25 that they start to hit their straps

Sandilands - 27 this year
Charman - 27 this year
Fraser - 27
Hille - 28 this year
Ottens- 29
Blake - 24 this year
Lade - 33 this year
Brogan - 31 this year
Gardiner - 30 this year
King - 31 this year
Cox - 28 this year
Minson - 24
Hudson - 30 this year

You can see that the best ruckmen in the AFL are hard bodied in their late 20's

Even allowing that a lot have been good for 4-5 years that still means they were older than both Maric and Griffin b4 hitting their straps

The only exception is Minson who I was surprised is still only 24

 

[cmndstab]

its one thing to miss the finals, I thought we'd be about the mark but at this stage we may be getting our highest draft pick ever. fine whatever.

but I'm not too keen on this thing where we drop our bundle when the pressure is on. that's the route one to obscurity not a step towards rebuilding.

Totally agree with this and it's why I'm so upset with the Crows this week. I've been disappointed with the standard of play in other weeks but this was the first week where I've felt we lost the match because we simply threw our hands up in the air and stopped trying. At least last week when the Bulldogs blitzed us it was mostly when we were trying to attack and just didn't get the skills executed correctly, but this time it was us just giving up.

And I know some people will say "well they are always trying, do you think they just decided to stop trying" - no, I don't think that, but there are levels of intensity and desperation you can and MUST bring to a game and I just don't think those were there. It's one thing to be beaten by superior talent, or experience, or body size, or whatever - but another thing altogether to be beaten by endeavour, something that has not often happened at Adelaide and something that shouldn't ever happen. I won't accept that from my club. I can handle us losing every match for the rest of the year if we at least look like we're giving it our all and the squad is moving forward in the process.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I agree that we are almost certainly going to miss the finals this year. I don't agree that we should just give up on the year, but I think we need to shift focus a little bit. We still need to try to field winning sides but I think the acceptance of average performances from senior/middle-range players needs to be roped in.


Personally I'd be bringing every single player in and telling them, two poor performances in a four week period will see you dropped and replaced with the next-best performing SANFL player every single time, and you will spend at least a month out. From there start to bring in young players slowly, but don't just dump the senior players and bring in all youth and concede that we will lose every week. It teaches bad habits.

This sounds like a cunning plan.

 

[crowsup]

This sounds like a cunning plan.

Do you really think that telling them that, would make them try harder? Don't you think that it is already implied?
Also, do you believe that the gold card really exists? Because, if it does, the coaching staff should be sacked.
No coach should let a player just play the game if he believes that another player could do a better job, on the day.
Surely if there is a belief that the player that is out of form can produce close to the same output that a new player could, he should be left in the team.
The belief may be wrong, but that should be the criteria selections are made on.

On a tangent, of all the new players that Choco tried after round 13 last year, how many are now regulars in their 22? There must be at least 4-5 that did not play in the first 13 games of last year.

 

[L_Maximus]

I'm resigned to the fact that in all likelihood our 2009 finals hopes are over, but I agree with everyone who believes "gifting" games to youngsters who aren't either ready or justifying senior selection is not the way to go. If all reports are correct that the next draft is slim pickings, then I see no benefit or real urgency in trying to "blood" these kids or working out whether or not to chop them at season's end. Good things sometimes take time, we just have to be patient and have faith that Matt Rendell's work will pay off in the near future. I have far more faith in him than his predecessor's.

I hate watching us lose, but hopefully in a few years' time we will be enjoying the benefits of the next few years' pain.

 

[Angry_Crow]

Carlton @ Aami – 50/50
Hawks @ Aami – 50/50
Bombers @ Docklands – 50/50
North @ Aami – win
Sydney @ Aami – win
Richmond @ Gold coast – win
Freo @ Aami – win
Saints @ docklands – loss
Power @ Aami – 50/50
Cats @ skilled – loss - even worse % than we already have.
Pies @ aami – 50/50
Hawks @ MCG – loss
Eagles @ Aami – win
Carlton @ docklands – 50/50

The way I see it we have 5 wins and 3 losses and 6 games in the balance. We need to win at least 4 of those games in balance to make eight seeing as we have terrible %.

Gonna be hard. Hopefully we can win these next two 50/50 games at home to get our season back on track.

 

[Cap]

I think the the part of tanking that people forget is that you are gifting other teams wins.
Why help another team out with there chaces just because yours are slipping away?

 

[Sir Vlado]

The seasons not gone yet.
We just need a win this week and we are on the up.

Difficult but not impossible to string 2 wins together against an undermanned Hawthorn and then head over to belt Essendon for Tysons 300th.

Hawthorn will still be pretty tough although they are undermanned and Essendon, at Etihad will be just as tough as we've only beaten them once there if I recall correctly.

Carlton @ Aami – 50/50
Hawks @ Aami – 50/50
Bombers @ Docklands – 50/50
North @ Aami – win
Sydney @ Aami – win
Richmond @ Gold coast – win
Freo @ Aami – win
Saints @ docklands – loss
Power @ Aami – 50/50
Cats @ skilled – loss - even worse % than we already have.
Pies @ aami – 50/50
Hawks @ MCG – loss
Eagles @ Aami – win
Carlton @ docklands – 50/50

The way I see it we have 5 wins and 3 losses and 6 games in the balance. We need to win at least 4 of those games in balance to make eight seeing as we have terrible %.

Gonna be hard. Hopefully we can win these next two 50/50 games at home to get our season back on track.

We should have a great run of wins there but prior to that we must win one of our next 3. Yeah, it will be hard, but then again nothing's impossible.

 

[Crows Feet]

According to the media 2009 was gone before it started. I personally don't have a problem with the position we are in. I'm a little disappointed in some of our senior players but am pleased with the progress of some of our newer bunch - Petrenko, Dangerfield, Otten and Walker in particular. I still think an 11-11 win-loss record is not out of the question for the h&a series.

 

[KUNG FU]

I think if we are to look at the remainder of our draw for this season in an objective abnd dispassionate way, its fairly clear we will not play finals.

We need 9 wins from 14 games and those 14 include
Hawthorn x 2
Carlton x 2
St Kilda away
Geelong away

I can't see us winning any of those, but lets say we can scramble 2 wins we then need to win 7 from the other 8. A tall order at best.

As has been widely reported and discussed we will endure pain this year whatever happens. I therefore put forward the proposition that the remainder of this season be used to further develop our younger players such as Jacky, Cook, McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Young etc etc.

Decisions should be made now about players who will not lead us to our next flag.

Of course such a policy will deliver more pain in the short term, but will that pain be more bearable than the pain we endure from the continual investment in players who have really failed to grasp their opportunity and who, at best, keep us from looking too bad.

The benefits are time into young bodies and minds, as well as an inevitably better slurp at the draft trough in November. Evidently there is still a lot of talent to be had this year in the early picks.

I for one would argue this to be a bold and courageous policy in the best long term interests of the club.

Hawthorn? Carlton? Ha!

We'll make the finals.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Hawthorn? Carlton? Ha!

We'll make the finals.

I get no pleasure from playing one week of finals. Unless weare contenders to play at least 2 weeks of finals I'd rather dedicate the year to developing kids.

 

[Smoooothy]

fail of a thread

we should win the next 4, which means we'll go into st kilda (who i think will still be undefeated) on the back of 7 consecutive wins (and arguable will be one of the matches of the year)

 

[jo172]

I get no pleasure from playing one week of finals. Unless weare contenders to play at least 2 weeks of finals I'd rather dedicate the year to developing kids.

Why can't we do both?

We're developing kids at the moment and running at pace to make the finals.

 

[KUNG FU]

I get no pleasure from playing one week of finals. Unless weare contenders to play at least 2 weeks of finals I'd rather dedicate the year to developing kids.

As Jo said, why not both? We are doing it right now. And as I said in a previous post, there are no players currently not getting a game that would benefit from playing AFL at this moment. Add to that, finals experience for the youngsters currently in the team and performing is vastly more important that chucking Armstrong/Sloane/McKernan/whoever in for a quarter against NM only to run around in circles.

 

[jo172]

As Jo said, why not both? We are doing it right now. And as I said in a previous post, there are no players currently not getting a game that would benefit from playing AFL at this moment. Add to that, finals experience for the youngsters currently in the team and performing is vastly more important that chucking Armstrong/Sloane/McKernan/whoever in for a quarter against NM only to run around in circles.

Agree, out of boredom (I should be swatvaccing but **** it) i was looking up some of the stats from the 2005/2006 finals series and regular seasons and you forget how much games were actually put into blokes likes Knights, Van Berlo, Maric, Vince, Porplyzia, Bock, Douglas and Rutten in these years.

I'd say that these blokes were taught that the Adelaide Football Club plays football to win all the time, and that finals are expected to be made. I think the finals experience of some of those blokes, along with being in a winning culture from day one where they had to earn their spot is now proving invaluable.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Why can't we do both?

We're developing kids at the moment and running at pace to make the finals.

A the moment you are spot on. We look as if we can do both. If we start dropping games unexpectedly it may need to become one or the other. At the moment I reckon we are a top 4 proposition, but there is a long way to go.

 

[jo172]

A the moment you are spot on. We look as if we can do both. If we start dropping games unexpectedly it may need to become one or the other. At the moment I reckon we are a top 4 proposition, but there is a long way to go.

I'm certainly with you that we for instance should not drop Dangerfield for Shirley, however I don't see any reason to play Petrenko or Cook ahead of say Doughty at this point.

 

[beartoo]

Craig has said that playing finals is an important part of the development of our young players. I agree with him, but hope for their sake and ours that we make it past week one.

 

[Witty Remark]

I'm certainly with you that we for instance should not drop Dangerfield for Shirley, however I don't see any reason to play Petrenko or Cook ahead of say Doughty at this point.

Yes I agree . IMO those two youngsters will develop more from gaining match time and confidence in the SANFL rather than getting thrown in the very deep end. Sure if their form warrants it, get them in, however i think they will benefit more in the SANFL at this stage of their development.

As for making finals and only playing one game. Well that's one more game than eight other teams, and it's impossible to get finals experience if you're not playing finals!

 

[CrowHop]

What? Doughty toweled up Judd and Sammy, then shut down Watson in the second half last week (three of the elite damaging midfielders). Do you think that Pets or Cook would have been able to do that?

Think he was suggesting that Doughty remain in the side. Not be replaced by Pets or Cook.