2010 List depth etc.

[silverscope]

First thing i will say is.... Thank god for the less DAB on our list for next season.

Now this thread wasn't about what our starting team will be for next year, i'll just use the below as a guide but with less DAB next year Depth will be much improved and the fighting for spots in the 22 will hopefully push our players to perform at peak.

B: Broughton Tarrant Grover
HB: Hayden McPharlin Duffield
C: Hill Palmer Mundy
HF: Headland Johnson Suban
F: Ballantyne Pavlich Mayne
R: Sandilands Hasleby Crowley
I: Solomon DeBoer Ibbotson Bradley


Lets just say for arguements sake that the above is our starting 22 for round 1 (doesn't matter if it is or isn't)

With the team above (i'd personally like to swap Grover for Drum, but lets just assume Drum/Peake/Gilmore/Head/Connelly/Pratt/Browne/Campbell are gone and not to be seen again)

The players fighting to get into the 22 go from;

2009 - Head, Gilmore, Peake, Campbell, Drum, Pratt, Hinkley + first year kids

to

2010 - Clarke, Dodd, Hall, Hinkley, O'Brien, Ruffles, Schammer, Thornton, Walters, Pearce, Murphy ( ), Van Berlo


Now ok i understand that the second list isn't exactly DAB free.. but it is so much better.

Johnson/Bradley gets inj. in comes Clarke

Grover/Drum - Dodd, Thornton

Midfielder - Schammer, Van Berlo, Hinkley

Foward - Murphy ( ), Walters, Ruffles (2nd half of season)

Brought/Dodger - Pearce



This obviously doesn't include any drafted players but if you add say a Morabito/Trengrove/Jetta/Coyler then the in-fighting for positions is only going to get better which means we aren't reliant on ********s.

 

[Freo Shark]

This is what we want to see, competition for spots.

It may not be quite so competitive in 2010 as the young'uns might have second year blues. But this is a step in the right direction.

We need to keep some DAB's so we can cut them next year. You want to give the young'uns some time to settle before you have to make a decision on them. Some you may be able to decide upon to cut after two years, some may need another year.

 

[The Purple Jesus]

Good points made. We should be heading in right direction but if we have another year like this year injury wise in 2010 then we had better hope a few of the young uns that did so well this year dont get the 2nd year blues. We really will need these guys to at least be putting the pressure on the mid tier guys.
I know Schammer has his knockers but he is clearly in our best 22

 

[silverscope]

I could easily swap Schammer for Bradley and have Johnson/Sandi doing the ruckwork

 

[The Purple Jesus]

I think and hope competition for spots will be hot in the pre season. Guys Like Keps, Grover, Solly, DeBoer, Headland and Ibbo will all need big pre seasons. If we have a healthy list Harves would love to put a bit of pressure on a few of these guys

 

[Freo Blood]

looks like a pretty competitive list (on paper). with an ok injury run should be pushing for the 8. perhaps thats why harvey wants to keep taz - he can see an opportunity. that team should be better than...
tigers 16th
port 15th
melb 14th
syd 13th
north 12th
bummers - dont really rate them
eagles - about same as us.

cant see us making the 8 as i can't see us displacing any of the others and expect the hawks to rebound. hopefully will be pushing the whole year though.

 

[Selggad]

We need to keep some DAB's so we can cut them next year. You want to give the young'uns some time to settle before you have to make a decision on them. Some you may be able to decide upon to cut after two years, some may need another year.

Don't think this will be a problem. Don't know what is happening with Murphy yet but he is contracted for next year (pay him out, pay him out!!) and we still have Dodd & Thornton on the list next year who are probably better than some of the DA brigade but not the players that will take us to our first flag. Solly is on a one year contract and it would have to be his last, plus it is hard seeing Grover playing past next year. Then there are a couple of players who will be borderline best 22 like Bradley and Schammer, plus guys playing for their careers like Foster and O'Brien, plus the older guys who may or may not keep playing like Dessie and possibly even Roger, depending on his body.

That's 11 players who may either retire, deserve culling or be forced out by injury by the end of 2010. Shouldn't be too hard to come up with 4 or 5 names at the end of next year.

 

[DockerLand1]

2009 - Head, Gilmore, Peake, Campbell, Drum, Pratt, Hinkley

Thank god for our first year players because the ones highlighted have all the heart of a pea.

A total waste of time and effort in regards to the club, it makes me cringe when I think of hte players that we could have had instead of these chops.

Good riddance to the lot of them, Peake and Drum we will get something for but Hinkley had better pull his finger out of his ass in 2010.

 

[Chris25]

Your parents must hate Christmas. I can just imagine you sneaking around in your mummy and daddy's room, looking for your presents. And at 12:01, waking up and running down to look under the tree.....

How about developing some patience? Hinkley is a second year player, a second year project player. He doesn't have the ready made body of a Suban/Broughton/van Berlo, or the freakish talent of a Hill/Palmer. The kid is still learning to play different positions, and was generally played out of position this year.

The fact is that at a top 10 club, Hinkley wouldn't have played at all. He would be left in the seconds to properly develop as a footballer. Instead he has played 13 games, and his development has had to be fast tracked. Although being played out of position is hardly ideal.....

So how about letting the developing player develop?

And in an effort to stop this thread from becoming another Hinkley thread, I will comment on the the whole list depth topic...

I can see guys like Dodd, Thornton and Murphy actually being important players next season. Obviously our main objective will be youth, so hopefully these guys will be depth next year. But every team needs to have a plan B, and these guys are exactly that.

If something goes wrong next year, bringing in kids to replace other kids isn't likely to fix anything. Look at Collingwood, I think everybody including Malthouse knows that Leigh Brown isn't a best 22 player. But he has played a key role this year, and it's because their initial plan in regards to their rucks didn't work. Dodd, Thornton and Murphy will offer that alternative next year, and unlike Brown they have all at least shown something in their careers.

As much as people might not like it, every club needs depth players. And it's just not feasible to have first and second year players as the only depth. Perhaps coming in as the back ups, and not having any pressure placed on them, will allow them to show some form......or maybe they will just continue on with their recent form.

 

[IbbosBFF]

Agree with you on Dodd and Thornton but not on Murphy, he can GTFO now.

 

[Selggad]

Agree with you on Dodd and Thornton but not on Murphy, he can GTFO now.

 

[Chris25]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Murphy get the boot. I would have gotten rid of him last season. But with the delisting of Campbell and with the seemingly inevitable loss of Drum, what other options are there?

And what happens if next year is a carbon copy of this year? Johnson goes down, we lose midfielders so Pavlich has to play there and McPharlin shows awful form up forward. Without Murphy our options would be Grover, Sandilands and Sibosado.

Granted we will hopefully draft one of Black/Butcher as well as Luff and Houghton if I had my way. But the last thing you can do with young KPP's is to put too much pressure on them (Jack Watts anyone?). I think Murphy can play a key role next year, just by helping to relieve some of the pressure on these kids.

 

[Selggad]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Murphy get the boot. I would have gotten rid of him last season. But with the delisting of Campbell and with the seemingly inevitable loss of Drum, what other options are there?

And what happens if next year is a carbon copy of this year? Johnson goes down, we lose midfielders so Pavlich has to play there and McPharlin shows awful form up forward. Without Murphy our options would be Grover, Sandilands and Sibosado.

Granted we will hopefully draft one of Black/Butcher as well as Luff and Houghton if I had my way. But the last thing you can do with young KPP's is to put too much pressure on them (Jack Watts anyone?). I think Murphy can play a key role next year, just by helping to relieve some of the pressure on these kids.

A cardboard cut out would offer the same and cost less. Seriously. Murphy was given plenty of opportunities this year and did bugger all. He got given his goal a game on a plate. There is very little likelihood he will offer the team anything next year so why play him? I think Dessie is also a KPP option up forward next year. Undersized a bit but strong upper body, good lead, mark and kick. I'd like to see him played out of the square for a decent stint to see what he may offer as a FF.

 

[IbbosBFF]

Play Mundy forward and bring in a young midfielder (Hinkley, Walters, Draftee)

Play Headland FF(instead of on the flank) and bring in a half forward (Ruffles, Hall)

Bring in Zach Clarke and have the trio of Sandilands, Bradley and Clarke rotated through ruck, bench and full forward.

Play Bucovaz

Play Sibosado

McPharlin goes FF

All better options than a typical 4 kick 1 handball 1 goal game from Murphy. I'm not going to go on a rant about how bad he is. I just never want to see him in a Fremantle jumper again.

 

[DockerShocker]

next year will be a really tough season looking at all the teams lists

 

[prattsta]

Chris25, Murphy's spot on the list is worth more than whatever his salary will be next season. Solomon, Thornton, Bradley, MJ, Bucovaz, Clarke, Grover and Des will provide more than enough depth up forward.

If your boy Hinkley steps up for 10+ games through the middle he'll make Murphy even more redundant.

I think Dessie is also a KPP option up forward next year. Undersized a bit but strong upper body, good lead, mark and kick. I'd like to see him played out of the square for a decent stint to see what he may offer as a FF.

I'd rather play Mayne out of the square and Mundy across HF; Mundy doesn't always lead hard enough for that role however. Ballantyne on the other flank with Pavlich at CHF should make up for it though. Des can play for Subi - when he isn't injured of course.

 

[Freo Blood]

next year will be a really tough season looking at all the teams lists

I agree, alot of teams look pretty good and solid through to 12/13 on the ladder.
Also a little unfair to say L Brown has done nothing his career - 200 games says otherwise. Murphy won;t even play 1/10th of that number (I havn;t checked his game tally).

I want to see Thrornton (completely ineffectual in any role except unchecked for forward, even then only gets one goal) and Murphy gone.

 

[Chris25]

Just want to remind everyone, I am no fan of Murphy. The last thing I want is to be associated with him....

But he is contracted, and there haven't been any whisperings of him looking to leave. So I'm just looking for a positive, and that may be to allow whichever key forwards we draft longer to develop (whether it be one extra week or less likely a whole season).

hf: Mayne Johnson Mundy
f: Headland Pavlich Ballantyne

That's how I would line up at the opening bounce. With Sandilands rotating through full forward, and I'd like to see our midfielders rotating through the forward line more often too (particularly Hasleby and Crowley).

 

[prattsta]

Just want to remind everyone, I am no fan of Murphy. The last thing I want is to be associated with him....

Sorry, the damage is done, you're clearly a Murphy fan boy .

hf: Mayne Johnson Mundy
f: Headland Pavlich Ballantyne

That's how I would line up at the opening bounce. With Sandilands rotating through full forward, and I'd like to see our midfielders rotating through the forward line more often too (particularly Hasleby and Crowley).

I'm not a big fan of Ballantyne in the pocket, he seems to get stuck down there (the Collingwood game is a good example). He's much more effective across HF where he has a bit more room to work and can get involved.

 

[IbbosBFF]

He got shutdown by Harry O'Brien who is a good defender against smalls. He doesnt have to chage his natural game because of one thrashing.

 

[Selggad]

I'd rather play Mayne out of the square and Mundy across HF; Mundy doesn't always lead hard enough for that role however. Ballantyne on the other flank with Pavlich at CHF should make up for it though. Des can play for Subi - when he isn't injured of course.

Bit harsh on Dessie. He is still easily best 22 when fit. For example he was our equal fifth highest goal kicker this year from 9 games. All the others above him had eighteen games or more.

I doubt Mundy will be in the forward half either. Harvey will most likely continue his development as a midfielder and if not there his next best spot is sweeping/third tall in the back line.

Mayne out of the square is interesting as he does lead well, but I'd prefer to see him on the flank so that he has more involvement and maybe an occasional run on the ball

 

[Selggad]

He got shutdown by Harry O'Brien who is a good defender against smalls. He doesnt have to chage his natural game because of one thrashing.

Wasn't it his second game as well? Cut the kid a bit of slack Prattsta!

 

[DockerLand1]

Play Mundy forward and bring in a young midfielder (Hinkley, Walters, Draftee)

Play Headland FF(instead of on the flank) and bring in a half forward (Ruffles, Hall)

Bring in Zach Clarke and have the trio of Sandilands, Bradley and Clarke rotated through ruck, bench and full forward.

Play Bucovaz

Play Sibosado Woo Hoo!

McPharlin goes FF

All better options than a typical 4 kick 1 handball 1 goal game from Murphy. I'm not going to go on a rant about how bad he is. I just never want to see him in a Fremantle jumper again.

Totally agree, Murphy is a disgrace. Considering all of the physical gifts that God has given him and the total lack of dedication and application. Murphy should be offloaded ASAP.

Take anything for him, even if it means getting the last draft pick and giving a chance to a young rookie who will give everything for the jumper.
A vacant spot on the list and upgrading one of our excellent rookies is better than giving him another go. Pay him out, ship him off to country Victoria. A true disappointment, high pick low results.

 

[The Purple Jesus]

Wasn't it his second game as well? Cut the kid a bit of slack Prattsta!

That was actually his first game! Bit harsh Prattsta. I will back Ballas to have a very very good career. Harry O has carved a fair few players up this year tall and small
Some good posts on here. Chris I agree with everything you have said. I reckon Murphy may survive as well. I know he has had plenty of chances but we have zero kp depth especially if Taz and Drum are traded. I know he will probably never be much chop but I reckon we need to keep him and just pray he finds form. For those saying play Sibasodo get real the guy is miles of playing AFL.
Chris great point about Hinkley. At a good club he wouldnt have played yet and would have just been allowed to develop in the 2nd's. I reckon he has truck loads of upside. I reckon he will make it long term and just needs time

 

[DockerLand1]

Wasn't it his second game as well? Cut the kid a bit of slack Prattsta!

I was really happy with Balla and Mayne towards the end of the season. It really did look like the forward line was working for a change. Have the Pav down there and it really does beging to look dangerous.

Very exciting pick up and I look forward to him with another pre season under his belt next year. Not to mention a bigger and fitter Chopper.