Review 2011/2012 List Management

deaneus

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Symes is a hospital pass specialist IMO. If he could iron that out of his game, he'd be a decent player. However, given he is 26 now, this is unlikely to happen.
He rivals Tregenza and Johncock for "people whose kicks look like they used a pitching wedge"

Constrast Aaron Davey (whichever Davey plays for Melbourne) who can kick 50 metres without the ball going more than 4 metres in the air.
 

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cmndstab

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I guess that's where me (and most pro/anti Symes people) disagree. If he did have good skills like you said then surly we would have seen more of him over the past few years then we have (unless he really has been injured for most of the games he has missed)?
I think you missed my point - Symes has quite poor skills, but he is a fine player in most other respects.

If there were a version of Symes running around with good skills, he'd be a very high draft pick.
 

amer

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Man, how many people blindly said Sellar was a monty to make it? Bloke never showed anything.
 

Lawrst

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Awareness, vision, smarts, physicality......

And he has a shocking haircut.
Delist just because of this!

His Physicality is very good, this comes from his desperation. His Smarts are fine how else does he know how to pick up 25 possies a game? Awareness, Vision, Desision making and Disposal arn't.
 
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Delist just because of this!

His Physicality is very good, this comes from his desperation. His Smarts are fine how else does he know how to pick up 25 possies a game? Awareness, Vision, Desision making and Disposal arn't.
Because under Neil Craig, we had almost 450 possessions a game and only needed three quarters. We over used the ball last year and the year before a massive amount. of that amount.
 

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Lawrst

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Fumbly players often come across as having good desperation.
Get symes 1v1 anywhere in the defensive 50, he will throw himself harder than anyone to win the contest. That to me is good desperation, it what he does when he wins the contest that hurts him.

Pete, he moves to the right spots and trys to be a link up player. That in itself shows smarts, just not enough to know he shouldn't do it.
 

WALL-e

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Symes has fine footy IQ without the ball. Very good loose ball winning ability. He's also hard at the contest. No issues with his attack.

Problem is he's not quick, has poor disposal and poor decision making. All horrible traits for an outside mid.....his best quality makes him an outside mid as well (ball finding). He can find a lot of good footy....he just struggles to damage with it.....well damage other teams.

Hands aren't good enough to be an inside mid and he can't explode from contests like an elite inside mid.

He has a bad modern day skill set. Attributes in wrong areas....
 

Cap

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how can he have fine footy IQ and poor decision making? - doesn't footy IQ include decision making?
 

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Play reading and decisions with ball in hard are two different things.

He knows how, and when, to spread. However his decisions on where and when to use the aggot are poor. Made worse by his poor disposal.
 

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I guess that's where me (and most pro/anti Symes people) disagree. If he did have good skills like you said then surly we would have seen more of him over the past few years then we have (unless he really has been injured for most of the games he has missed)?
Well that depends what you classify as a skill. If its purely disposal by foot then you are correct. However, marking is a skill, reading of the play is a skill, ability to find the ball is a skill, handballing is a skill, shepparding is a skill, tackling is definitely a skill.

In a lot of other skills Symes is OK to very good but his disposal by foot is very average.

He is a solid AFL player and no where near as some people make him out to be nor as good as some make him out to be.

He is an experienced player that can play in a number of positions, which at this stage of our list development has some value to us.
 

Cap

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Play reading and decisions with ball in hard are two different things.

He knows how, and when, to spread. However his decisions on where and when to use the aggot are poor. Made worse by his poor disposal.
yes, but surely footy IQ covers the ability make decisions - if you can't make a footy decisions on a consistent basis your footy IQ mustn't be that strong.


Can you be smart yet bad at maths?
Yeah but you can’t be good at maths but poor a addition.
 

WALL-e

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Which is why I isolated his footy IQ 'without the ball'.
 

cmndstab

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yes, but surely footy IQ covers the ability make decisions - if you can't make a footy decisions on a consistent basis your footy IQ mustn't be that strong.




Yeah but you can’t be good at maths but poor a addition.
Actually, most mathematicians are terrible at arithmetic :eek:

Awareness, vision, smarts, physicality......

And he has a shocking haircut.
I'd say his awareness and vision are two strengths, and there's nothing wrong with his physicality.

His issue is with disposal - selection and execution.

No argument over the haircut :p
 

Cap

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Which is why I isolated his footy IQ 'without the ball'.
well to me your basically say he has been taught how to play football.

anyone can be taught to run to a position on a ground at a given point, which is what you are saying is Symes strength.
 

cmndstab

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well to me your basically say he has been taught how to play football.

anyone can be taught to run to a position on a ground at a given point, which is what you are saying is Symes strength.
To continue with the clumsy mathematics analogies, anybody can be taught to do calculus as well. You could teach a monkey to do it. However, some are still going to do it quicker and/or more reliably than others.
 

Lawrst

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anyone can be taught to run to a position on a ground at a given point
No they can't, some players really struggle with this.

Its about anticipating when to go, and when you go to backyourself in that where you are running to is the right spot.

It is a skill.

Its not as easy as saying, if A) happens run here, If B) happens run there.
Thats a game plan.
 

Stiffy_18

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Because under Neil Craig, we had almost 450 possessions a game and only needed three quarters. We over used the ball last year and the year before a massive amount. of that amount.
Symes NEVER had issues finding the ball regardless of where he was playing and within what sort of game plan. It has clearly been his biggest strength in his AFL career.

Just like Chris Knight he is a natural at finding the footy regardless of whether we are playing possession footy or minimal possession - maximum distance type of football.

His numbers in terms of possessions per time on ground has always been VERY good. Its what he does with it when he gets it that is the problem.
 
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