2011 Draft Discussion #2

[chopperduck]

Interesting senario, i think if the talls we want get taken, then we are best to go after best available and get the mids that have slide because of it. We can still take a ruck prospect at 30 or 47 giving more depth there, otherwise we will be fine next year for tall timber. I'd then look at next year for some genuine KPP.

 

[cmt26]

Interesting senario, i think if the talls we want get taken, then we are best to go after best available and get the mids that have slide because of it. We can still take a ruck prospect at 30 or 47 giving more depth there, otherwise we will be fine next year for tall timber. I'd then look at next year for some genuine KPP.

I agree with this 100%, however we may still end up getting Tomlinson with one of our picks, he initially firmed as our pick at 12 before BF hype and a few journo's claiming he may rise. So hopefully he will still be around at pick 8, which I believe will be the case.

The problem with our list at current, is we have no potential elite young KPF currently on the list. Cornelius may or may not develop the way we would like. Lisle has the potential to be a good KPF and will help. But IMO we do need at least two high potential KPF before we can be on our way to becoming a force again. In this draft I'd like to see us grab at least one KPF (with one of our higher picks) and a second next year, either through the draft or Tippett or both (wishful thinking)

With our other picks, I'd love to see a midfielder, 2 defenders and a rookie draft ruckman. Keeping in mind that all of these picks may not work out.

It's important to note that our list management is done with an eye to how the team will look in about 3-4years time. KPF's (even better if they are dual position/ruckman) another 1-2 midfielders & a ruckman would be our priority for the next 2 years

 

[cotter101]

I agree with this 100%, however we may still end up getting Tomlinson with one of our picks, he initially firmed as our pick at 12 before BF hype and a few journo's claiming he may rise. So hopefully he will still be around at pick 8, which I believe will be the case.

The problem with our list at current, is we have no potential elite young KPF currently on the list. Cornelius may or may not develop the way we would like. Lisle has the potential to be a good KPF and will help. But IMO we do need at least two high potential KPF before we can be on our way to becoming a force again. In this draft I'd like to see us grab at least one KPF (with one of our higher picks) and a second next year, either through the draft or Tippett or both (wishful thinking)

With our other picks, I'd love to see a midfielder, 2 defenders and a rookie draft ruckman. Keeping in mind that all of these picks may not work out.

It's important to note that our list management is done with an eye to how the team will look in about 3-4years time. KPF's (even better if they are dual position/ruckman) another 1-2 midfielders & a ruckman would be our priority for the next 2 years

I have high hopes for Cornelius to become close to an elite forward, And Lisle to become a good KPF/KPD.

I personally think Tomlinson can become an elite KPF/KPD which is why I want him.

Next year is the year to go hard and get tall's with most of our picks.

 

[cotter101]

My nephew posted something about Doug Morris on the lions facebook page, Apparently he led the TAC Cup in Total Possessions,Contested Possessions and Clearances. Have not seen a lot of him but maybe we could get him in the Rookie draft/pick 47? Quigley could you give me your thoughts on him?

 

[Old Den]

While acknowledging the presence of Cornelius,Lisle,Retzlaff,McKeever and Lester on the list and wishing them well and hoping for great things from them,it doesn't take a genius IQ to see that an elite full forward,an elite CHB and an elite CHF replacement for Brown when he calls it a day would make a huge difference to the team.

First class recruiting would have them in place as soon as possible if they are not there already.

 

[cotter101]

I'm tipping WHE to slide to 8

 

[thoselionslads]

My nephew posted something about Doug Morris on the lions facebook page, Apparently he led the TAC Cup in Total Possessions,Contested Possessions and Clearances. Have not seen a lot of him but maybe we could get him in the Rookie draft/pick 47? Quigley could you give me your thoughts on him?

These blokes who dominate the TAC cup and don't raise much interest in recruiting circles usually suffer from the same knocks. Without ever seen him play or read about him, I'm willing to bet he is an average kick, is slow and has a mature body.

 

[Quigley]

My nephew posted something about Doug Morris on the lions facebook page, Apparently he led the TAC Cup in Total Possessions,Contested Possessions and Clearances. Have not seen a lot of him but maybe we could get him in the Rookie draft/pick 47? Quigley could you give me your thoughts on him?

If we want him I dare say he will be available as a rookie. I have not seen much of him and couldn't really recall him from the Champs so I went back and checked my notes and there was only one entry - nice contested possession but turns it over. After the Champs I usually have a fair idea of who I am going to follow and Morris wasn't one I followed unfortunately.

He can definitely find the ball at TAC level but the question would have to be whether he could step up to the next level given that he did seem to struggle at the Champs. There was also queries on his speed and agility and his State Screening results certain bore these concerns out. He only ran a 3.20 in the 20m and was in the bottom 20% in the agility test. These are not the be all and end all but they certainly put him behind other likely prospects. He helped himself with a nice 15.15 in the beep test though.

 

[cotter101]

If we want him I dare say he will be available as a rookie. I have not seen much of him and couldn't really recall him from the Champs so I went back and checked my notes and there was only one entry - nice contested possession but turns it over. After the Champs I usually have a fair idea of who I am going to follow and Morris wasn't one I followed unfortunately.

He can definitely find the ball at TAC level but the question would have to be whether he could step up to the next level given that he did seem to struggle at the Champs. There was also queries on his speed and agility and his State Screening results certain bore these concerns out. He only ran a 3.20 in the 20m and was in the bottom 20% in the agility test. These are not the be all and end all but they certainly put him behind other likely prospects. He helped himself with a nice 15.15 in the beep test though.

Thanks Quigley. I've also only seen him once, I feel he could be a good choice in the Rookie Draft as I think he will be there as well.

And Thoselionlads you are right in what you said about the Players in the TAC cup.

 

[cmt26]

While acknowledging the presence of Cornelius,Lisle,Retzlaff,McKeever and Lester on the list and wishing them well and hoping for great things from them,it doesn't take a genius IQ to see that an elite full forward,an elite CHB and an elite CHF replacement for Brown when he calls it a day would make a huge difference to the team.

First class recruiting would have them in place as soon as possible if they are not there already.

Extremely well said. It also needs to be taken into account that KPF's take more seasons that midfielders before hitting their peak. This is why I feel Tomlinson would be a crucial pick up, as he seems very much a player that could learn on the job, playing senior footy from early next year.

Of the players you mentioned, I feel Lester is probably earmarked for midfield role long term, or a defensive role (but not as a KPF, most likely as a third tall/floating tall in the back six, basically a match up for Karnesiz if we had an intra-club), which I like the idea of.

I feel Lisle & Mckeever would be the pick of the rest. I feel Lisle will develop into a handy KPP at either end, depending on where they decide to place him. Whilst McKeever has plenty of upside as a key defender rotating through the ruck when necessary. Both are still works in progress, especially McKeever. Lisle is ready to fill a role for us now, and I feel it will be in the forward line as a CHF.

Tomlinson, if drafted will play a role similar to Hurley at Essendon for us, if he gets here.

As for Cornelius & Retzlaff, I believe Cornelius has the potential to play purely as a FF, but it will be hard for him to get game time with JB around and he hasn't shown enough thus far for me to believe he will be a top forward. He has the natural talent, as evident by some of his bags of goals in the seconds, but maybe he doesn't have the athletic attributes to fill the role. Retzlaff is basically the opposite, lots of work ethic but just lacking the right amount of natural talent to make it. However I would love for both to prove me wrong in the coming season.

Back to the draft table, taking Tomlinson (KPP), a quality midfielder, and then a prospective KPP (especially in this draft as no one is truly sure how the KPP's will fall, so we may bag a rough diamond knowing hadley's history at the draft table) at 30, and a mature aged ruckman (or HBF depending on where we rate the available ruckman) at 47 would be perfect for our current list needs and for our prospective 2015 team.

 

[LIONHART]

My nephew posted something about Doug Morris on the lions facebook page, Apparently he led the TAC Cup in Total Possessions,Contested Possessions and Clearances. Have not seen a lot of him but maybe we could get him in the Rookie draft/pick 47? Quigley could you give me your thoughts on him?

before we write anyone off completely, i just want to say two words to our list managers, & those with a say - remember ROCKLIFFE, who knows if there is not another rocky out there in the group of guys no-one is rating.

 

[cotter101]

before we write anyone off completely, i just want to say two words to our list managers, & those with a say - remember ROCKLIFFE, who knows if there is not another rocky out there in the group of guys no-one is rating.

I would certainly take this guy in the Rookie draft, At worst he should become a good depth player. And we all know how important depth is.

 

[13Beast]

Interesting senario, i think if the talls we want get taken, then we are best to go after best available and get the mids that have slide because of it. *We can still take a ruck prospect at 30 or 47 giving more depth there, otherwise we will be fine next year for tall timber. *I'd then look at next year for some genuine KPP.

The Lions would be mad not to take Longer if he slipped to 8. Failing that, I totally agree, pick up a ruck prospect (Downie? Elton?) at 30 or 47.

I'd like to see Kersten get picked at 12 - he's got great hands, a real finesse with the ball, very strong lead and a radar for goal. After Patton and Kersten, there doesn't seem to be a KPF in this draft who can hold a candle to their ability to consistently lead, mark and kick goals. Browny and Braddy were a wonderful pair up forward, and the Lions desperately need a quality pure FF target up front. Could be just the missing link in our offensive firepower.

Wingard or Greene at 8. Just as important as getting a KPF NOW to develop in the lineup and learn from Brown, it's also imperative we think about Black being able to pass on his knowledge to a future midfield star such as Greene/Wingard if we draft them. I also think they are classy enough players that they'd provide immediate impact. We have so many holes to fill, but have to balance best available with needs at the same time.

Of course, spending 8 & 12 on other needs and getting an on-baller or outside player later in the draft at 30 or 47 isn't a bad idea either. There's some players such as Grigg, Nelson, Merrett perhaps even Kavanagh who could be available by then and who show promise.

Still not entirely sold on Tomlinson. I like his height, but unlike
KPF's, there may very well be other tall mobile defenders available later in the draft. Any fullback or HBF options likely around at 30?

 

[cmt26]

Any fullback or HBF options likely around at 30?

Schade is one CHB/FB type that may be available, there will be a few available but they may not be of the quality we desire. I like the idea of Grigg slipping to us at 47, but we may prefer a mature age ruck option.

Question for anyone that knows, why is John McKenzie, Tasmanian U18 captain, all Australian this year, not likely to be drafted. I haven't seen him play, but it seems a similar situation to that of Leigh Adams (north Melbourne) who was Vic Metro captain & all Australian a few years ago but had to wait to be rookie drafted. North have got quite good service out of him IMO. Surely a club would have a punt at something similar....

 

[spotthedog1]

I'm tipping WHE to slide to 8

I'm certainly hoping so too... he's been talked up a LOT on BF forums, so it's probably he's not quite as high with real recruiters - may slip to our pick... either way, i'll be stoked with him, Greene or Buntine at pick 8.

i'm also slowly coming around to your other idea if WHE gets snagged early (Tomlinson at 8, who wouldn't make it to 12, and then Greene, who (despite being better than Tomlinson) may get through to 12 due to the depth of mids in early picks for GWS)... if it works, it's genius. problem is, if it doesn't we could miss out better talent by pre-empting GWS and getting Tomlinson early.

 

[Quigley]

Final draft order has been released and we are picking at 47.

Not a surprise but must mean that Brown has been designated as a veteran outside the list.

 

[POBT]

Final draft order has been released and we are picking at 47.

Not a surprise but must mean that Brown has been designated as a veteran outside the list.

We could still pass on the day, couldn't we?

Not that I think we would but the option is there to change our mind and have a pick in the PSD instead.

 

[whatboutbob]

We could still pass on the day, couldn't we?

Not that I think we would but the option is there to change our mind and have a pick in the PSD instead.

Correct. I imagine the Club will wait to see who is available and assess then.

With a couple of obvious exceptions we don't have a really strong history in PSD pick-ups, do we?

Having said that, perhaps with a lot of question marks over kids supposedly going deeper in the draft perhaps they'd like to see a few of them train with the club first...see who really wants it... *shrug*

 

[POBT]

Correct. I imagine the Club will wait to see who is available and assess then.

With a couple of obvious exceptions we don't have a really strong history in PSD pick-ups, do we?

Having said that, perhaps with a lot of question marks over kids supposedly going deeper in the draft perhaps they'd like to see a few of them train with the club first...see who really wants it... *shrug*

I think #47 is too early a pick to pass on with a view to taking a player in the PSD. Let's say that there are 10 players you like still available at #47. You are running a big risk if you let another 20 or so picks occur in the draft. Unless you are scoping out an absolute smokey, chances are that your favoured 10 will be snaffled.

 

[whatboutbob]

Interesting to note that Port are making noise about needing more ruckmen. I still reckon it is a red herring. Here's hoping it works.

GP: We’d like to strengthen our midfield, whether that’s with another ruckman or with more inside and outside midfielders, we’ll have to wait and see. We’ve traded for Renouf, but if you look at Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn last year they had five or six 200cm-plus players to share the load.

 

[POBT]

Interesting to note that Port are making noise about needing more ruckmen. I still reckon it is a red herring. Here's hoping it works.

They've got 3, right? Renouf, Lobbe and Redden. Renouf is adequate. Lobbe looked to have improved last year and the reports are good on Redden's development. Might be looking for a forward/ruck type but I am pretty confident that they'll pass on Longer.


Interesting that Brett Anderson on Twitter still has Longer bracketed with Buntine for #5 (with both bracketed at #9 too). He's no nostradamus but there's obviously no clear mail as to what GWS will do with #3 to #5.

 

[Football Pope]

Final draft order has been released and we are picking at 47.

Not a surprise but must mean that Brown has been designated as a veteran outside the list.

Just out of interest...why is the compensation pick not given a selection number?

28. West Coast Eagles
29. Fremantle
GC SUNS - COMPENSATION
30. Brisbane Lions
31. Essendon

 

[JasRulz63]

That pick 30 is our compensation pick isn't it?

 

[irel]

That pick 30 is our compensation pick isn't it?

Unfortunately YES

 

[Quigley]

Pick 30 - Brisbane Lions (GC Suns Compensation)