2011 Draft Discussion #2

[Bobby Beecroft]

Cheers Quigs, Insightful as always.

Really interesting to see what we do at 8, 12 & 30.
I would gather 8 & 12 will be best available, irrespective of position which appears to have been your method (although you did declare tall timber after 8).

Guess it all evolves around GWS. The one constant of the many Sheedy interviews I have heard in 2011, is he continually refers to building a spine when discussing trading/drafting. This was a pattern at Essendon over the years. Will this have any impact on their strategy? Given Phil Davis is the only uncontracted part of the spine I wonder whether some KPP may be taken earlier than expected by GWS. That said I am ignorant to what KPP they already have.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You're up Quigs!

Bring it home!

 

[Quigley]

I wanted a KP/2nd ruck with my final pick to address a few areas of need and ended up going with Ben Brown who is another Tasmanian. Tom Downie was very tempting but is not really a KP option and I figured we could go with Brewer or Cabrera as a development ruck in the rookie draft or even young Sandilands.

Gault was the other option for me but I ended up with Brown.

Ben Brown
DOB 20/11/92 Ht 199 Wt 90

Brown was overlooked last year after badly injuring his knee during the Champs. He was out for a full year but returned to compete in the Champs this year as an overage player. He was probably not as dominant as I thought he might have been but it was still a pretty solid performance from a guy who only just came back from a full reco and has hardly played. He did have some nice games at the Champs including in the big one against NSW which decided the Div 2 title for Tasmania. In addition to his knee problems Brown has also had OP and shoulder issues to contend with which might explain why he was not quite as dominant as he might have been.

He has a thin build and has not put on a huge amount of weight since we saw him last year. Its unlikely that he will ever be a massive guy but I compared him last year in build to Gorringe and I think that comparison still stands. Athletically before the knee operation Brown was pretty good with a nice leap and enough speed to create separation. I didn’t see much this year to indicate that he has lost much and signs are that he should get everything back athleticism wise. He didn’t test at the Combine which is a shame and I think he could be one whose decision to keep people in the dark could hurt. There were a lot of questions about how much his athleticism was affected and he could have put them to rest by testing. Still if he did have a legitimate injury he would only have hurt his chances but when teams are kept in the dark they usually will refrain from taking the risk.

Brown is more of a ruck at the moment but he is also a capable forward. I like him as an around the ground accumulator maybe not to the Cox level but you get what I mean. He competed against the big boys in the under 18s including Witt, and held his own. He does need to work on his tap work but given he comes from a basketball background rather than football that should not surprise. He has only been focused on AFL for a couple of years. As mentioned above he is also a capable forward when called upon and could play as a complementary forward / second ruck in the AFL. He played predominantly as a forward last year and his bag of 5 against Qld was impressive.

He has excellent hands both above and below the knees for a big man and a good awareness in traffic of where everyone is. For a big man Brown is exceptionally good in traffic and has pretty quick hands. He has a lot of X factor about him and its worth noting this quote from the Tasmanian coach last year - "He does some freakish things. He looks gangly but he's got the cleanest hands below his knees for a big bloke that I've ever seen."

Up forward he is a good shot for goal and converts his chances well. I haven’t seen much at all of him but his kicking for goal seems a lot better than Tippett’s and Clark’s who are of similar size and disposition and that should encourage teams. He reads the play coming up the field well and times his leads to good spots very well. He is a big guy and at U18 level he used his body very smartly to give himself opportunities. He has sometimes good judgment and sometimes poor (ie liking Red Dwarf but supporting Freo) but you can forgive that in a kid I like him as a prospect and I am sure someone will take a punt on him at some stage. The issues he has had with his body are likely to concern some teams and might cause him to drop but there is a lot of talent there and good size to work with. Young rucks often struggle to get their body right early and it doesn't usually inhibit their development once they come into their mature strength in the early 20s.

For those interested here is my write up of Gault


Corey Gault
DOB 28/10/92 Ht 198 Wt 87

Gault has come from a long way back but his Swan Districts coach has said he has never seen anyone improve as much as Gault has in the last 12 – 18 months. Gault was nowhere at the beginning of the year but worked his way through the WAFL Colts to the Ressies and then to the WAFL where he had an impact. He was selected for WA as an overage player but didn’t do a great deal at the Champs. Shifter reported that he was carrying an injury at the Champs which could have had something to do with his performance. At the end of the year he was named in the WAFL Colts team of the year as the starting ruck.

I am including Gault because he is one of the few in the draft who can legitimately play both key position and ruck at AFL level and with the new sub rule these types of guys have significant value. With the sub rule looking like its here to stay teams will be looking for these types and there aren’t that many of them around this year. Gault has worked very hard to present himself as a CHF option and I think he has succeeded.

Gault is a good athlete who gets around the field well for a big guy. He has pretty reasonable speed off the mark with his top end speed being solid. He has pretty good agility for a big guy and excellent leap. At the Combine he finished 7th in the standing jump with 71cm. He doesn’t always make full use of his height and jump in the marking contest taking quite a few marks in front of his eyes but this is area he has worked hard on and he is improving all the time. He is not the best judge of the ball in the air but again he is improving and his hands are good. He is a factor with the ball coming into a contest and does well stepping in front of a stationary pack to mark the ball using his height and standing jump. As a KPF he will work up onto the wing to gather the ball and will then hustle back and beat his man back inside 50. His engine seems pretty good and I expect his running could be a real weapon after spending some time in an AFL environment. He marks well running with the ball and maintains balance to use the ball to good effect after that. He is not a big goal kicker at the moment but some potential is there.

He is a right footer who has pretty reasonable skills. He does need some work but technically his kicking seems fine. He needs to work on his handball skills as well but again I do not see anything to particularly worry about. His decision making is pretty good for a big guy and he seems to evaluates situations and makes decisions quickly which often big guys do not do.

In the ruck he is a bit undersized for a first ruck but pretty much the normal height for a second ruck under the new rules. He gets up and competes pretty well but his ruck technique certainly needs some work. He does not make full use of his height using a bent arm to tap rather than fully extending. There is also not a lot of subtly in his work being very much of the bash it forward and let the mids run onto it school. Still there is a bit to work and he is certainly aggressive in the contest. He is well balanced in the ruck contest and recovers very quickly after the tap. He looks to impact the contest immediately and will follow up with tackles or contesting the ball whatever is in front of him. As a ruck he gets around the park very nicely and as he develops he could become a possession type player. I like the way he floats back into the hole at CHB where he uses his marking skills very well.

Gault is still very raw but he has shown great improvement this year and there is no reason to think that this improvement will not continue. In his WAFL debut he managed 17 touches, 7 marks and 1 goal which a massive return for a guy who needed a bell in the ball to find it at the beginning of the year. He has the size and athletic abilities to make it at AFL level and has the attitude and dedication to perhaps do better than that. He has a reputation for being very coachable and listening to what is said to him and acting on it. In a weak draft I would be inclined to take a punt on that sort of player.

 

[Crusha]

Big Footy Phantom Draft Pick 47 Brisbane
Ben Brown
DOB 20/11/92 Ht 199 Wt 90

Taking into account our recent trading/de-listings, you have certainly drafted for need, and no-one could be too unhappy if the real thing came out something similar.

Combining the trades completed and your “Phantom Picks”, our list changes would appear thus:

Senior List “Outs” to "Ins"
B. Fevola - S. Kersten
M. Clark - B. Brown
J. Charman - B. Hudson
M. Austin - L. Sumner
T. Collier - H. Schade
L. Power - D. Zorko
X. Clarke - M. Golby
J. Brown (to Vet. o/side list) - J. Lisle


Can't wait for your phantom Draft to come out...always an informative read.

(Will also be interested to see your Big Footy Phantom Rookie Draft Picks as well)

 

[tancas]

Taking into account our recent trading/de-listings, you have certainly drafted for need, and no-one could be too unhappy if the real thing came out something similar.

Combining the trades completed and your “Phantom Picks”, our list changes would appear thus:

Senior List “Outs” to "Ins"
B. Fevola - S. Kersten
M. Clark - B. Brown
J. Charman - B. Hudson
M. Austin - L. Sumner
T. Collier - H. Schade
L. Power - D. Zorko
X. Clarke - M. Golby
J. Brown (to Vet. o/side list) - J. Lisle


Can't wait for your phantom Draft to come out...always an informative read.

(Will also be interested to see your Big Footy Phantom Rookie Draft Picks as well)

Wow, when you put it that way if the outcome fell anything like this then you couldn't help but to be satisfied.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Wow, when you put it that way if the outcome fell anything like this then you couldn't help but to be satisfied.

True, although I'd hope Sumner would be a great deal better than Austin. Definitely feel that if this was how draft day panned out though, we'd be justified in being happy.

 

[whatboutbob]

Quigley: While I won't go into the specific players you chose, as far as 'type' goes I reckon you've absolutely nailed our needs.

 

[LIONHART]

would the club seriously consider drafting richard newell (our NSW scholarship player) & what pick would they use, or is he a 'shoe-in' to be drafted as a rookie this year?

 

[Quigley]

Not out of the question that he could be taken with 47 but given Collingwood have already nominated Witt for the ND that may indicate that we have missed the cut off. I am not sure on that but with list spots at a premium it was always more likely that he would be taken as a rookie. If he agrees to be a rookie he can be prelisted and as I understand it and would not be available in the national draft. If we did not want to main list him and he did not want to be a rookie then he could declare for the main draft.

I would expect they would give him a 2 year deal at standard draftee wages so in effect there would be little difference to if he was a national draftee. Its not like we have been short of upgrade spots the last few years.

PS if we decide to take him in the ND we would prelist him and it would be deemed that we would use our last selection on him. We don't to actively pick him and it would be sorted out before the draft.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Herald Sun seems to think Newell's already been rookied. Is this just a mistake on their part?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/voss-delighted-by-lions-fitness/story-e6frf9jf-1226187537834

Recently elevated rookie Richard Newell set a hot pace in the club's annual 3km pre-season time trial on the first day of training at the University of Queensland today.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I suspect he's been elevated in all ways bar the paperwork, which has to wait for the rookie draft I suspect.

 

[Grimreepah]

Jason Phelan

Like all clubs at this time of the year, the Lions are keeping their cards close to their chests, but it is widely believed they would ideally like to bolster their midfield and add a key position prospect with those picks.

Oakleigh Chargers' Toby Greene, who has a reputation for finding plenty of the football, is currently the popular choice at No. 8, with TAC Cup teammate Adam Tomlinson in the frame to head north at pick 12.

 

[Old Den]

At Pick 8,it will be interesting to learn of our selection before knowing the first 7 that were taken...better than last year in that regard when we had 5.

Last year,when Heppell's name was called for Essendon, we could conclude it was Polec as there seemed (correctly) little chance of the Eagles not taking Gaff.

 

[13Beast]

From the looks of it, it's seems everybody is sold on Sumner as the mid we should take. Earlier in this thread, people were shouting around WHE and Kavanagh as the favourites. Any reason why folks have gone cold on WHE or Kav? Personally I think they are all great and the Lions would benefit from any of them. Just wondering why Sumner is top of the list and the other two barely rate a mention now.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

From the looks of it, it's seems everybody is sold on Sumner as the mid we should take. Earlier in this thread, people were shouting around WHE and Kavanagh as the favourites. Any reason why folks have gone cold on WHE or Kav? Personally I think they are all great and the Lions would benefit from any of them. Just wondering why Sumner is top of the list and the other two barely rate a mention now.

Common thinking is that WHE will be gone before our pick, so possibly people aren't bothering to get attached to the idea of nabbing him. However, there's a few learned souls around the traps who wonder if he a tad overrated on the basis of his athleticism.

 

[Fatcat08]

From the looks of it, it's seems everybody is sold on Sumner as the mid we should take. Earlier in this thread, people were shouting around WHE and Kavanagh as the favourites. Any reason why folks have gone cold on WHE or Kav? Personally I think they are all great and the Lions would benefit from any of them. Just wondering why Sumner is top of the list and the other two barely rate a mention now.

Probably because Quigley took him in the bigfooty phantom when WHE and Kavanagh were already gone

Realistically I think most people seem to think that at least WHE will be taken before our pick 8 so have moved onto someone who probably will be.

Kavanagh, not really sure. Personally I rate him very highly and would probably take him over Sumner if available. However, I can undertsand the reluctance given the combination of his injury history and our propensity in recent years to have a high number of injuries. We took an injured Bartlett two years ago and he hasn't played a game in the seniors, so maybe a bit of reluctance there.

 

[whatboutbob]

From the looks of it, it's seems everybody is sold on Sumner as the mid we should take.

The results of this recent poll seem to contradict your assertion. WHE (23), Kavanagh (16) and Buntine (18) all got more votes than Sumner (12).

Having said that, Sumner is currently my second choice behind WHE.

 

[jackess]

From my little knowledge of the draft.

Presuming the top 7 includes Conglio, Patton, Tyson, Wingard and Longer.

Pick 8 (in order of preference): Kavanagh, Buntine, WHE, Sumner

I picked those 4 as I think if not selected they probably won't last until 12. From what I've heard Kavanagh sounds like a good all-round talent.

Pick 12 (in order of preference): Tomlinson, Greene, Kersten, Docherty.

Mixed bag but Tomlinson's versatility interests me but if the recruiters don't believe the remaining KPPs aren all that good compared to the remaining smalls I'd prefer another quality mid/utility.

Pick 30: If 2 mids selected then a tall like Schade or Dobosz.
If 1 mid selected then maybe a utility like Forster or Merrett

A tall for balance or a utility to fill a bit of a void in the squad. IMO the Lions have plenty of genuine young mids (Redden, Rich, Rockliff, Polec, Harwood, etc.) and could maybe use someone of talent who could switch from HBF to HFF or to the wing.

Pick 47: Project ruck like Brewer, Downie, Brown, etc.

Depends on how the recruiters rate Bolger or any other ruck talent. The Lions need another ruck on the senior list so a mature ager (22-26 y.o.) might be on the cards.

 

[cotter101]

Assuming the like of Patton Wingard Tyson Congilio etc are gone.

Pick 8 Sumner/Elton/Kavanagh

Picks 12 Tomilson/McInnes/Crozier

Pick 30 Eillis/Docherty/Dobosz/Schade

Pick 47 Brown/Schade

Pick 69 Brewer

 

[Hollow Knight]

Cotter: Pick 69 = Mitch Golby

 

[Dylan12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't we need to delist a further player if we were to draft a 5th player in the ND or have a pick in the PSD?

 

[Crusha]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't we need to delist a further player if we were to draft a 5th player in the ND or have a pick in the PSD?

Brown being listed as a Veteran outside the list creates the 5th Pick....@69.
And as TBD has consistently stated, that is for the Rookie Elevation of Mitch Golby.

Any additional picks, ND 0r PSD, would require further de-listings.

 

[pauldrc]

Is that with Staker on the LTI list, or does that happen later??

 

[cotter101]

Cotter: Pick 69 = Mitch Golby

Whoops

 

[Hollow Knight]

Is that with Staker on the LTI list, or does that happen later??

That has to wait until the start of the season. It doesn't give us the ability to draft an extra player onto the senior list.