2011 Draft Discussion

[pauldrc]

Do we need some one bigger though??

Where do we all see Retzlaf and Acorn fitting in long term, or aren't they perhaps going to make it???

 

[PattyK28]

If Acorn can work on his fitness and his consistency, I think he could play full forward on a permanent basis in 2012. He has an excellent pair of hands and is a reasonable set shot for goal. His first priority is to get himself as fit as possible and seek to play 20+ games next year.

As for Retzlaff, he is a project player. I'd like to think that he could muscle up over the pre season and continue to learn from the great man Jono Brown. I'd also like to think Retzlaff could complement Acorn & Karnezis in years to come post Jono Brown.

 

[pauldrc]

Yeah, OK, I'm with all that, but who are we looking at drafting then for a specific forward position??

A Ruck/For, a big CHF or FF, or a more Mobile Forward???.

 

[Fatcat08]

neither are the big body on body type forwards that we as a side are used to having so it may take a bit of a adaption in the way we play to fully utilise their skills.

Retzlaff is much more of a lead up marking player rather than a strong body type so will rely on good delivery into the forward 50. Just needs to keep working hard and building his tank and strength.

Acorn at FF is more of a Jack Riewoldt type in that he will be ok body on body but judging the ball in flight and pack grabs is where I think he will be. Just needs better fitness to make more leads.

Both will rely on an increase in skill level by our midfielders but this needs to happen regardless as we can't always rely on winning 1 on 1 and more likely 2 on 1 contests in our forward line. Midfielders who can deliver well into forward 50 by foot would still be a big priority to cater for our current line of forward replacements when brown retires.

 

[borrat]

a good ruck option could be russell gabriel from frankston

certainly not lacking in size and could be a really good 2nd ruck

 

[Offsider]

I see him as very similar to Darling.

I may have to disagree with you somewhat there Quigley

On the outside it looks as if they are similar, not quite tall enough good mark over head, good below the knees.

Yet for mine Darling is a better contested mark, better at using his body. Not so much a lead up player. Capable of playing CHF good endurance, can run in the middle.

Kirsten is more of a lead up player similar to Fevola I think. Quick on the lead, good strong hands. Good contested mark, stay at home type FF. Good below the knees and would ideally be a third tall I think. Could kick 50 goals a year.

 

[Quigley]

On Darling similar size and both can play a similar lead up role I think. Darling has more up the ground ability but really his endurance has only shown itself this year. Kersten once he gets into a full time environment and is injury free could easily develop a similar tank. If you asked me last year about which had the attitude to develop a tank I would have said Kersten.

I did peg Darling as more of a midfielder than forward last year and that was largely due to his below the knees work and his skills. I would have thought both would have been pretty similar overhead but I stand to be corrected there. Both are very smart on the lead and lead to good spots and Kersten perhaps has the edge a bit there. I plugged Kersten early to go higher than most expected and if we could get him at 16 I think he could end up a bargain.

Its going to be interesting to see his testing results.

 

[pauldrc]

The mocks on here have him going between 18-40 range....could be a bit of a slider or a bolter....maybe with our second rounder (pick 34)???

 

[whatboutbob]

The mocks on here have him going between 18-40 range....could be a bit of a slider or a bolter....maybe with our second rounder (pick 34)???

Seems a classic 'hard to place' player given his time on the sidelines and late form. Given the dearth of top KPF I'd put my money on him going sooner rather than later.

 

[POBT]

Kirsten is more of a lead up player similar to Fevola I think.

Off topic but I always thought "lead up" forwards were the guys who provided leads up to the wing? ie High aerobic capacity, almost midfielders in terms of where they got their touches. I may have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now!

 

[Offsider]

I would say lead up as more of a fevola type ie he leads and takes marks more than a contested mark type player like say Dawes or that big bodied type. Obviously the best are the ones who can do both. Kirsten can take a contested mark but is more reliant on leading.

 

[POBT]

I would say lead up as more of a fevola type ie he leads and takes marks more than a contested mark type player like say Dawes or that big bodied type. Obviously the best are the ones who can do both. Kirsten can take a contested mark but is more reliant on leading.

I describe Fevola as a leading forward.

 

[thoselionslads]

There are highlight videos up on the afl website from this years U18 champs.

Whilst it is important to bear in mind they are only snippets of 3 or 4 games, the videos sure don't do Sumner or Hoskin-Elliot any harm. Both have that burst of pace that has been mentioned and use the ball exceptionally well - two things we desperately lack.

On another note, there has understandably been a lot of talk about our need for talls, both KPF and ruck. One position that is flying under the radar is the small forward role. Fletcher mooted about Banfield moving further up the ground next year. Regardless of whether this eventuates, we desperately need a natural crumbing forward. This is turning into a specialist position in modern day footy and should be recruited as such - as opposed to trying to turn a mid into this role. It could be argued that our club hasn't had a quality small forward since McRae and that was certainly a long time ago.

 

[cotter101]

There are highlight videos up on the afl website from this years U18 champs.

Whilst it is important to bear in mind they are only snippets of 3 or 4 games, the videos sure don't do Sumner or Hoskin-Elliot any harm. Both have that burst of pace that has been mentioned and use the ball exceptionally well - two things we desperately lack.

On another note, there has understandably been a lot of talk about our need for talls, both KPF and ruck. One position that is flying under the radar is the small forward role. Fletcher mooted about Banfield moving further up the ground next year. Regardless of whether this eventuates, we desperately need a natural crumbing forward. This is turning into a specialist position in modern day footy and should be recruited as such - as opposed to trying to turn a mid into this role. It could be argued that our club hasn't had a quality small forward since McRae and that was certainly a long time ago.

I think our need for talls are more pressing than our small forward need. But Devon Smith could be an option if we got pick 16 although I would prefer we went tall.

 

[Balony_pony16]

There are highlight videos up on the afl website from this years U18 champs.

Whilst it is important to bear in mind they are only snippets of 3 or 4 games, the videos sure don't do Sumner or Hoskin-Elliot any harm. Both have that burst of pace that has been mentioned and use the ball exceptionally well - two things we desperately lack.

On another note, there has understandably been a lot of talk about our need for talls, both KPF and ruck. One position that is flying under the radar is the small forward role. Fletcher mooted about Banfield moving further up the ground next year. Regardless of whether this eventuates, we desperately need a natural crumbing forward. This is turning into a specialist position in modern day footy and should be recruited as such - as opposed to trying to turn a mid into this role. It could be argued that our club hasn't had a quality small forward since McRae and that was certainly a long time ago.

I agree...alot of boards have Claye Smith sliding bigtime. watch his game in the 18's GF

also, I would expect barlett to come in a make a impact in the forward line for his first playing season.

and what about Zorko? Could start out forward

 

[whatboutbob]

On another note, there has understandably been a lot of talk about our need for talls, both KPF and ruck. One position that is flying under the radar is the small forward role.

While I agree that we need a crumber, they obviously don't usually take as long to develop as most talls. As such we can afford for that to be close to the last piece in the puzzle. I'd be disappointed if we made a point of drafting one early this year. If OTOH one was wrapped up as spare change in a trade deal or snagged a likely type late/rookied then so be it.

 

[Gibbo_88]

There are highlight videos up on the afl website from this years U18 champs.

Whilst it is important to bear in mind they are only snippets of 3 or 4 games, the videos sure don't do Sumner or Hoskin-Elliot any harm. Both have that burst of pace that has been mentioned and use the ball exceptionally well - two things we desperately lack.

Waldhunter's video is one of the better one's, the first few seconds show some pretty impressive tackles.

Boseley has been mentioned a few times in this thread so looked at his video and he looks a long way off, not talking about his skills but he needs to add a lot of muscle to have any impact at AFL level, definitely looks like a long term prospect.

 

[POBT]

While I agree that we need a crumber, they obviously don't usually take as long to develop as most talls. As such we can afford for that to be close to the last piece in the puzzle. I'd be disappointed if we made a point of drafting one early this year. If OTOH one was wrapped up as spare change in a trade deal or snagged a likely type late/rookied then so be it.

While I agree with this, I am very concerned about our ability to provide defensive pressure inside forward 50 if we have a forward set up structured around Brown and Cornelius. Those two offer very little in terms of chase and pressure. If Karnezis is the 3rd forward, he's got a lot of work to do on the defensive side of his game. Those 3 present a massive risk as none of them are really capable of building sustained defensive pressure on the opposition.

Banfield will obviously start forward. Of all our players, he may well be the one that I'd like to clone because we could be a substantially better side with a second super quick small forward in the side. Bartlett's ability as a small forward is unknown. McGrath should be played forward too which will help the defensive pressure. Sheldon is a trier and works hard defensively but doesn't have the pace or explosiveness to really pressure the opposition. Sheldon played a role this year and was serviceable at best. But if we could replace Sheldon with someone who is closer to Banfield in terms of pace and explosiveness, we'll have a really dangerous forward set up.

In short, I think another Banfield type could be a factor in us being a far more complete side. If the draft/trade opportunity arises to get the right player for this role, I say we should take it. But we shouldn't chase fool's gold and take small forwards just for the sake of it.

 

[Quigley]

I am hoping Banfield and Green split forward and mid time. Both are not really true small forwards but can do a job particularly defensively and add real pace to our team.

On Boseley I do not rate him anywhere near as high as some. Bear in mind he is also a year older than others having played this year as an overaged 19 year old. There are quite a few others I would prefer us to take instead.

 

[Jubair]

We also have to note that Mcrae was a wingman cum half forward before being moved into the crumber role during the premierships. So we can develop someone to play that role, it doesnt necessarily have to be a specialist crumber - that person just has to know that thats the role they have to play for the team. Its about chemistry and communication between the bigmen and the smallmen too. Milne reads the spillage off his forwards very well and he developed this ability overtime.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

If you do our best 22 there is no doubt we now need KPPs to cover for Staker and Clark, and for development purposes over the next few years. From what I am reading this years draft is not blessed with talls,whilst it appears next year is a super draft and will provide better KPP options.

What has become very noticeable this year are the half back weapons that have emerged and improved their respective clubs game plans and styles. Davis and Shaw, Yarran and Scotland, Wojincski and Mackie, Hurn, Heppell, Dempsey and Winderlich early in the year, Hanley and numerous Hawthon youngsters.

We have Drummond who is great but injury prone, we have uncovered Hanley as mentioned. Mcgrath will play forward next year or should in my opinion and we have farewelled Power who gave us some run. Whilst Adcock is a nice distributor and organiser from back, he needs support in the form of running, creative playmakers with run and carry ability. We have Stiller, Hawksley, Collier, Golby, and have some options in the form of Bartlett, Polec and even Beams to come.

In my opinion dare I say it, a creative half back in the mould of a Yarran or Shaw is required as well.
Considering our rebuilding requirements are numerous- it has to be a best available strategy. We don't want to over value a KPP this year if there are better next year.

Whilst a small forward would be great, I think we can use Mcgrath there more permanently, loved his game against Sydney in the final H@A game this year. What would help further is more goals from the midfield. We got more this year, we want even more next year.

 

[POBT]

In my opinion dare I say it, a creative half back in the mould of a Yarran or Shaw is required as well.

Couldn't agree more bpl. We definitely need class behind the ball. An additional factor to the ones you mentioned is that none of our tall defenders are damaging rebounders. Patfull looks more and more to be a stopper only. Merrett tries but it isn't natural. Maguire is a very good reader of play and can set things up from the back half but isn't likely to be in our best 22.

That increases the reliance on the small/medium defenders to generate drive. A triple threat of Drummond, Hanley and Adcock looks OK but you'd like one more who has an absolute licence to peel off. Of the guys we've seen at senior level, O'Brien could potentially be transformed to this role. Doesn't quite have the dash of a Yarran but I rate him as a very good kick and a good reader of play. My vision at the moment has him playing forward of centre but he could easily play on a HBF. Lester is another one who might come in and provide some drive.

But yes - we need class on the flanks IMO - both forward and back.

 

[pauldrc]

By the sounds of it Buntine would fit that role, and he could well be gettable, but will we go that route??

 

[thoselionslads]

It's an interesting discussion. Our list has obvious deficiencies, as expected whilst in a rebuilding phase. I keep referring to a comment Roos made about drafting for talent and trading for needs. It takes savvy list management and extensive knowledge of opposition lists but Roos and co at Sydney have certainly shown it can work as a form of list management strategy.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Couldn't agree more bpl. We definitely need class behind the ball. An additional factor to the ones you mentioned is that none of our tall defenders are damaging rebounders. Patfull looks more and more to be a stopper only. Merrett tries but it isn't natural. Maguire is a very good reader of play and can set things up from the back half but isn't likely to be in our best 22.

That increases the reliance on the small/medium defenders to generate drive. A triple threat of Drummond, Hanley and Adcock looks OK but you'd like one more who has an absolute licence to peel off. Of the guys we've seen at senior level, O'Brien could potentially be transformed to this role. Doesn't quite have the dash of a Yarran but I rate him as a very good kick and a good reader of play. My vision at the moment has him playing forward of centre but he could easily play on a HBF. Lester is another one who might come in and provide some drive.

But yes - we need class on the flanks IMO - both forward and back.

Strange as it may sound, I think the tall-ish rebounding role could be played by Polec down the track when he gets a tad more weight onto him and although shorter I think Golby is another that could be groomed for this role.

Both have pace and the ability to run/carry and deliver the ball with speed and vision.