Opinion 2011 Top 50

[eaglespremiers]

Forgot Hocking and Zaharakis. From what I've seen I don't have an issue with rating those two plus Watson, Hurley and Stanton ahead of Heppell. Not sold on Ryder's and Crameri's seasons but you're in a better position to rate them.

I would be surprised if Zaharakis doesn't win Essendon's B&F.
Having a great year.

 

[Patron]

1. Judd
2. Pendlebury
3. Franklin
4. Mitchell
5. Cox
6. Swan
7. Abblett
8. Murphy
9. Thomas
10. Priddis
11. Dal Santo
12. S Thompson
13. A Swallow
14. Cloke
15. Boyd
16. Goddard
17. Goodes
18. Black
19. Watson
20. J Selwood
21. Wells
22. Stevie j
23. Goldstein
24. Montagna
25. Chapman
26. Redden
27. Fyfe
28. Scarlett
29. Kelly
30. Griffen
31. Hodge
32. Deledio
33. Bartel
34. Josh Kennedy (wce)
35. Cotchin
36. Reid
37. Mcpharlin
38. Petrie
39. Enright
40. B Harvey
41. J Riewoldt
42. Okeefe
43. Scotland
44. Lecras
45. Pavlich
46. gibbs
47. Fisher
48. Leuenberger
49. Ball
50. Shuey/martin/yarran/Rockliff

 

[The Donners]

1. Judd
2. Pendlebury
3. Franklin
4. Mitchell
5. Cox
6. Swan
7. Abblett
8. Murphy
9. Thomas
10. Priddis
11. Dal Santo
12. S Thompson
13. A Swallow
14. Cloke
15. Boyd
16. Goddard
17. Goodes
18. Black
19. Watson
20. J Selwood
21. Wells
22. Stevie j
23. Goldstein
24. Montagna
25. Chapman
26. Redden
27. Fyfe
28. Scarlett
29. Kelly
30. Griffen
31. Hodge
32. Deledio
33. Bartel
34. Josh Kennedy (wce)
35. Cotchin
36. Reid
37. Mcpharlin
38. Petrie
39. Enright
40. B Harvey
41. J Riewoldt
42. Okeefe
43. Scotland
44. Lecras
45. Pavlich
46. gibbs
47. Fisher
48. Leuenberger
49. Ball
50. Shuey/martin/yarran/Rockliff

Not a bad effort, it is an opinion based thread after all.

 

[AG]

I'll do the team by team as we go this round. So only ranking the players within each team, I'll do the whole list some time next week.

Collingwood:
1. Pendlebury
2. Cloke
3. Swan
4. Thomas
5. Ball
6. Davis
7. Reid
--------------------- So the above names are certainly in for the final top 50.

Unlucky/Borderline: Tarrant, Shaw*(* will be due to games missed)

Not sure who else is close for the Pies. Toovey has been good. Beams? Seems to be a clear top 7 (8 if I include Tarrant but I'm less certain with him) and then it gets a bit harder.

Geelong:
1. Kelly
2. Corey
3. Enright
4. Selwood
5. Johnson
6. Scarlett
-----------------------------

Unlucky/Borderline: Bartel, Ottens, Chapman, Taylor

Bartel will probably stay in but not definite on that. As with Collingwood, unsure on the unlucky players. Maybe Ling has been better than some of them?

So recommend any changes as I do them. Plus Bomber posters, do the same for Essendon since they have the bye and they are done for the H&A season. At the moment it's just Watson with the rest borderline but if someone can do a top 5/10 for Essendon I'd appreciate it.

 

[mdc]

Beams?

Played some great footy, but like Shaw has missed 8 games. You're right in saying that top 7 is pretty clear cut for us.

 

[StringyDog]

I would have Stanton & Ryder pretty even with Watson this year. Ryder's being massively under-valued off 4-5 shit weeks - and similar story with Stanton. Starred early & starred since Geelong.

Certainly all 3 have had better years than Rance, Shaw, Gibbs & Boyd.

Wow, there have been some stupid posts in his thread but that just about tops it all, Boyd and Gibbs have been in he top 25-30 all year, Stanton and Ryder would be very lucky to be in top 100.

 

[The Donners]

Wow, there have been some stupid posts in his thread but that just about tops it all, Boyd and Gibbs have been in he top 25-30 all year, Stanton and Ryder would be very lucky to be in top 100.

I agree with you regarding Ryder but not with Stanton. He's been outstanding in all bar 4 or so games. He's added a harder edge to his game which for me has put him at least on par with Gibbs and Boyd.

 

[The Donners]

Forgot Hocking and Zaharakis. From what I've seen I don't have an issue with rating those two plus Watson, Hurley and Stanton ahead of Heppell. Not sold on Ryder's and Crameri's seasons but you're in a better position to rate them.

Crameri is a legitimate gun but I can't see him getting into any top 50s or anything like that. I can really only see Essendon fans rating his impact in games as "top 50 player-like".

 

[AG]

I'm using the coaches votes as a guide for games I miss and Stanton only polled in 3 games up to R20. 2, 5 and 1 vote games.

Boyd had polled in 9. Gibbs in 10.

So I'd say Stanton is more in the outstanding category purely at Essendon rather than the whole comp. Similar with Kennedy for us. Kennedy has also only polled in 3 games for the coaches award but is coming second in our POTY.

So it's borderline top 50 for both of them and I'd lean towards Kennedy of the two.

 

[George Washington]

Essendon supporters will be upset with me, but I don't rate Stanton. A good player definitely. Very, very important to our side and definitely always gives 100%. Is he elite/ top 50 in the comp? I don't think so..

 

[AG]

Sydney:

1. Goodes (where would others have him, I've bumped him up a fair bit because I think I've been a bit cautious in rating him too high, probably around 13th?)
2. O'Keefe
--------------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Kennedy, Richards, Bolton

Brisbane:
None definite just yet.

Unlucky/Borderline: Black, Redden, Rockliff, Leuenberger, Merrett*

Adelaide:
1. Thompson
-----------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Rutten, Jacobs, Johncock

West Coast:
1. Cox
2. Priddis
---------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Glass, Shuey, NicNat, ?????

As always struggling with WC.

Hawthorn:
1. Mitchell
2. Franklin
3. Gibson
4. Sewell
5. Hodge
---------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Birchall, Shiels

Gold Coast:
1. Ablett
2. Bock
----------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Rischitelli

Fremantle:
1. Fyfe
2. McPharlin
---------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Pavlich, Mundy*, Sandilands*

Western Bulldogs:
1. Boyd
2. Griffen
-------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Murphy, Morris

Carlton:
1. Judd
2. Murphy
3. Scotland
4. Gibbs
----------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Walker, Yarran, Robinson, Simpson, Jamison*

St Kilda:
1. Dal Santo
2. Fisher
-------------------------------
Unlucky/Borderline: Goddard, Milne, ????

 

[Patron]

I'll rate the top few eagles players in order this year to help you.

1. Cox
2. Priddis
3. Kennedy

I think these 3 are locks for top 50

After this
4. Lecras
5. Shuey
6. Glass
7. Nic Nat

probs the best chances in that order.

 

[eaglespremiers]

For mind:

1. D. Cox
2. M. Priddis
3. D. Glass
4. L. Shuey
5. N. Naitanui
6. S. Selwood
7. S. Hurn
8. M. LeCras
9. D. Kerr
10. A. Embley

 

[Patron]

For mind:

1. D. Cox
2. M. Priddis
3. D. Glass
4. L. Shuey
5. N. Naitanui
6. S. Selwood
7. S. Hurn
8. M. LeCras
9. D. Kerr
10. A. Embley

No kennedy love?

 

[eaglespremiers]

No kennedy love?

Top 7 have been much more consistent for West Coast than Kennedy this year and I can't see any way to place him there.

8. M. LeCras
9. D. Kerr
10. A. Embley
11. J. Kennedy
12. Q. Lynch

Feel that Kennedy has dropped off significantly in the second half of the year. Perhaps Kerr could be above 10 but he's so darn good when he's on song.

Decided Embley deserved to be in my top 10 more than Kennedy. Line ball call, but I'm happy with it.

 

[Surkin]

MY END OF SEASON TOP 50

1. Gary Ablett
2. Chris Judd
3. Travis Cloke
4. Marc Murphy
5. Sam Mitchell
6. Scott Pendlebury
7. Lance Franklin
8. Dale Thomas
9. Dean Cox
10. Dane Swan
11. Nick Dal Santo
12. Adam Goodes
13. Scott Thompson
14. Matthew Boyd
15. Ben Reid
16. Nathan Fyfe
17. James Kelly
18. Todd Goldstein
19. Joel Selwood
20. Ryan Griffen
21. Heath Scotland
22. Matt Priddis
23. Steve Johnson
24. Jobe Watson
25. Daniel Wells
26. Nathan Bock
27. Drew Petrie
28. Andrew Swallow
29. Brett Deledio
30. Luke McPharlin
31. Tom Rockliff
32. Leon Davis
33. Josh Gibson
34. Matthew Scarlett
35. Luke Ball
36. Trent Cotchin
37. Stephen Milne
38. Andrew Walker
39. Brad Sewell
40. Luke Schuey
41. Sam Fisher
42. Brent Moloney
43. Jimmy Bartel
44. Ryan O'Keefe
45. Jack Riewoldt
46. Darren Glass
47. Heath Shaw
48. Joel Corey
49. Corey Enright
50. Bryce Gibbs
---------------------------------
51. Luke Hodge
52. Dustin Martin
53. Nick Naitanui
54. Brendan Goddard
55. Jack Trengove
56. Michael Jamison
57. Michael Hurley
58. Rob Murphy
59. Grant Birchall
60. Simon Black

 

[Slattery_20]

And Stanton is? There's a reasonable quick measure you can do of effectiveness by looking at Champion Data score (which accounts for effectiveness) minus Dream Team score (which does not).

Stanton's consistently one of the worst in the league by this measure, this year clocking in at -7.4. Boyd, for comparison, is -0.7.

edit: It seems to me Stanton's following the Shane O'Bree trajectory of being maligned (rightly) by some fans, and then the rest of the club's fans take offense and begin to defend and praise them almost militantly. Both were/are mediocre footballers with far too many flaws to ever get near a top 50 list.

I look at 'effective' as how much effect they've had on their side winning games of football.

We make finals because of two spells of form.
Rd 1 - 8;
And Rd 15 - onwards.
Essendon fought back, with senior players out, and both Ryder & Stanton were massive in that fightback.
Comparing them against where Watson is rated and who's had more of an effect on their club's year, on winning and losing: not that different. IMHO.
I'm not even sure Watson has had enough of a year to be in the top 50; so perhaps my point should be why is he so high up - is it tokenism?

Comparing to Boyd, well he's had a lot of it when they've been smacked; he's had a lot of it when they've won; they've had no run & carry, no chasing & pressuring. So that's where I drew my conclusion.


Flame away!
Quite aware this is left-field, just one person's perspective.

EDIT: Re your edit: Probably similar thing happening. I view it more as he has a massive gap between his best and worst; and he's not one of those guys who can play through a knock - like the cracked shoulder he had mid-season.
Have a look at when Stanton has played well vs not played well (or not played); and tell me he hasn't been effective.

 

[AG]

Nice list Surkin.

 

[AG]

Richmond:
1. Cotchin
2. Deledio

Unlucky/Borderline: Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Nahas

North:
1. Goldstein
2. Wells
3. Swallow
4. Petrie

Unlucky/Borderline: ? Harvey, Adams?

Port Adelaide:
nfi

Melbourne:
None locks.

Unlucky/Borderline: Moloney, Trengove


So overall that's 42 players locked in.

 

[eaglespremiers]

MY END OF SEASON TOP 50

1. Gary Ablett
2. Chris Judd
3. Travis Cloke
4. Marc Murphy
5. Sam Mitchell
6. Scott Pendlebury
7. Lance Franklin
8. Dale Thomas
9. Dean Cox
10. Dane Swan
11. Nick Dal Santo
12. Adam Goodes
13. Scott Thompson
14. Matthew Boyd
15. Ben Reid
16. Nathan Fyfe
17. James Kelly
18. Todd Goldstein
19. Joel Selwood
20. Ryan Griffen
21. Heath Scotland
22. Matt Priddis
23. Steve Johnson
24. Jobe Watson
25. Daniel Wells
26. Nathan Bock
27. Drew Petrie
28. Andrew Swallow
29. Brett Deledio
30. Luke McPharlin
31. Tom Rockliff
32. Leon Davis
33. Josh Gibson
34. Matthew Scarlett
35. Luke Ball
36. Trent Cotchin
37. Stephen Milne
38. Andrew Walker
39. Brad Sewell
40. Luke Schuey
41. Sam Fisher
42. Brent Moloney
43. Jimmy Bartel
44. Ryan O'Keefe
45. Jack Riewoldt
46. Darren Glass
47. Heath Shaw
48. Joel Corey
49. Corey Enright
50. Bryce Gibbs
---------------------------------
51. Luke Hodge
52. Dustin Martin
53. Nick Naitanui
54. Brendan Goddard
55. Jack Trengove
56. Michael Jamison
57. Michael Hurley
58. Rob Murphy
59. Grant Birchall
60. Simon Black

Great list. Only query is whether Luke Shuey deserves to be in the top 50. Particularly with Black being out.

 

[WN123]

After reading some of the recent lists (and subsequent comments esp about Stanton and Ryder) its pretty clear many are still caught up in their" Essendon will finish bottom 4" opinions.
Just how the hell did we make the finals anyway with nobody playing well!!!
Watson is the only player who has made anybody's Top 50 and he missed 6 games and was injured for a good portion of a couple of others.

Consider AussieGuns (like most I have utmost respect for his efforts) most recent;
We have one player - All teams above us, plus 7 of those below us have at least two. All these same teams have at least one player rated higher than our best.

 

[Surkin]

I don't think it is a bad thing not to have many players rated highly. When I did my list and saw that James Kelly was my highest rated Geelong player at 17 I thought maybe I needed to change it, but then I looked at the blokes above him and felt all had better seasons. It is a testament to Geelongs evenness that he was their highest ranked player.

Same with Essendon. Watson is the only guy I thought belonged in the top 50 but if I was to extend the list to 100 Hurley, Stanton, Ryder, Heppell and possibly 1 or 2 others would all make it. Shows how even they have been across the board this year.

 

[Slattery_20]

I don't think it is a bad thing not to have many players rated highly. When I did my list and saw that James Kelly was my highest rated Geelong player at 17 I thought maybe I needed to change it, but then I looked at the blokes above him and felt all had better seasons. It is a testament to Geelongs evenness that he was their highest ranked player.

Same with Essendon. Watson is the only guy I thought belonged in the top 50 but if I was to extend the list to 100 Hurley, Stanton, Ryder, Heppell and possibly 1 or 2 others would all make it. Shows how even they have been across the board this year.

Yep.
I'd argue we should have quite a few between ~30 and ~70 or so - it's incongruous that Watson is rated *that* highly ahead of the others I'm banging on about.

If we improve another half-step next year, I daresay we'll see the likes of the group you named pushing towards best 40 or 50. (or should that be the other way around?).

 

[mdc]

Just how the hell did we make the finals anyway with nobody playing well!!!

Came into Rd 1 as the fittest team in the league and fluked a couple of wins against Geelong and Sydney late in the season despite having fewer scoring shots than either.

Hurley should make it next year, but this year he's missed games and had a couple of quiet ones. Ryder and Stanton, who are being mentioned here, are nowhere near top 50. Zaharakis has a case, but considering significantly better players like Redden are being left out, he doesn't really have a case. Crameri's been good, and has actually played really well against the better teams, so I'd have him in the unluckies too.

In: Watson
Unlucky: Zaharakis, Crameri

 

[Phaze Away]

North:
1. Goldstein
2. Wells
3. Swallow
4. Petrie

Unlucky/Borderline: ? Harvey, Adams?

I think Andrew Swallow's overtaken Daniel Wells now. I also think Brent Harvey's had a better season than Drew Petrie but I'm in the minority in this so feel free to call me crazy. Realistically 1-3 (Todd Goldstein, Wells and Swallow) and 4-6 (Petrie, Harvey and Leigh Adams) are close to even for North.

In terms of the whole list I'd imagine Gary Ablett and Scott Pendlebury would be very unlucky not to take the top two spots after terrific and consistent years with potentially Sam Mitchell third.