2011 US Open

[gaelictiogar]

Fed still has another 2 years at the top IMO and Nadal is only a year older than Novak. Nadal made it to many finals this year and the only person that could stop him was Djokovic so he will still be around as long as his knees hold up. Unfortunately Andy Murray has no forehand or mental fortitude so I will count him out. Its not as bad as you are making out though.

Federer is now 30. You can count on the fingers of one hand the slams won by men in their 30s. It is possible but unlikely that he will win another but he certainly won't be number one again.

Djokovic is clearly the boss now. The key was dealing with his coeliac problem. Since then he has been supreme. He is younger than Federer, a better player with more weapons than Nadal and clearly ahead of the rest. It is conceivable that Nadal might trouble him on slow clay but it unlikely that he will beat a fit Djokovic on any other surface.

I think Nole should be credited with his achievements. Had his coeliac condition been diagnosed earlier it is highly likely he would have taken over at the top long before he did given Federer's flakiness, Nadal's consistent inability to beat him post diagnosis and the inability of the rest to compete at the business end of the biggies.

 

[worbod]

Does anybody recall the name of the Herald Sun journalist who earlier this year stated Sam Stosur would never win a grand slam, was somewhat fortunate to have made last year's French Open and that Australian women's tennis was unlikely to provide grand slam champions in the near future?

 

[matt_897]

He's a good tennis player who's had a great 9 months, at a time when his two main rivals are extremely vulnerable. He's not a tennis player who is going to win multiple slams a year for several years. The bandwagoning on this forum is ridiculous.

If he somehow manages to accumulate 10 Slams it will be a damning indictment of the quality of the ATP Tour over the next few years.

This post here proves to me you have not watch much tennis this year. A damin indictment of the quality of the ATP Tour if he keeps dominating the way he does? Get real. Novak's play has been nothing short of extrodinary this season, he's almost changing the spot with the way he has palyed this season. He's improved his serve, forehand, they are so much more consisent now. He improved his fitness, he can handle all sorts of conditions as well, just look at the Miami final, he was arguably fitter than Nadal that won him that match, something if would of been said 18 months ago I probably would of been banned from this forum. And then his speed and defense has also improved to as good as the best in the game ie. Murray and Nadal. All that makes for hell of a physical player that isn't really matched in the game at the moment.

As I said, it's going to take a lot of improving for Nadal to get up to the level of Djokovic, he needs to be more aggressive. The same goes for the rest have to improve as well. Djokovic now knows how to get to the level he is now and yes that might be a drop off here and there, there is no way he won't work hard to keep at his peak which should be for the next 2-3 years. Barring injury, I just can't see who will be able to beat him, Nadal should be able to once or twice at a slam, I can't see him not improving after this year but Djokovic is overall a poor matchup for him anyway now. Federer certainly is able to but I question his ability to close out matches as he gets older. Murray has got to work on his attiude and tactics and that doesn't look like changing anytime soon. And the rest? Nobody seemes to be able to believe their good enough if you look at guys like Berdych, Tsonga etc. Del Potro doesn't seem to be the same player since his hip problems and that's only going to get worse. And as far upcoming players, there's no one close to winning a slam this stage. Injury is the only thing I can see stopping Djokovic at the moment.

I'm no fan of Djokovic either, a fan of his awesome play this year but I never generally liked him that much. It's a very different tennis to what Federer did at his best but still some of the best tennis that I have seen.

 

[Caesar]

You are assuming, like everyone else, that his form for the last 9 months is the new normal. It's not.

Players get into the zone for a few months, maybe a year or so, and then they drop back. Come next March, he'll be back with the pack again - still winning titles, but being beaten regularly too.

 

[matt_897]

You are assuming, like everyone else, that his form for the last 9 months is the new normal. It's not.

It is. You don't go 64-2 as just a hot streak. It's like you think this has been fluke, rather insulting really. The thing he hasn't just been winning this many matches, he has thrashing a lot of oppoenents and a lot of them are top players. I do think he will drop a level at times, yes, of course that's going to happen but he's so far ahead of the field at the moment, it's ridiculous, results back me up there.

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

I really don't favour Djokovic, Nadal or Federer but surely if a bloke wins 3 slams in a year it is not a fluke, I don't understand how you could argue otherwise.

Anyway in regards to torrents, if anyone's interested I was able to find one of the ladies final, but the only men's ones I found have either 1 or no seeds, the 1 with the seed also says its over 7 gigs (can that be right??) It was on isohunt.

http://thepiratebay.org/search/us open/0/99/0

 

[Drummond]

It is. You don't go 64-2 as just a hot streak. It's like you think this has been fluke, rather insulting really. The thing he hasn't just been winning this many matches, he has thrashing a lot of oppoenents and a lot of them are top players. I do think he will drop a level at times, yes, of course that's going to happen but he's so far ahead of the field at the moment, it's ridiculous, results back me up there.

Exactly right.

Look at Djokovic's year, look at all the players he has beaten. Beat Federer (along the road) to win the AO, Nadal to win Wimbledon, and Federer and Nadal to win the USO.

Of course Djokovic will find it awfully tough to back up this year, and I highly doubt he'll win 5 consecutive Masters Series next year. So if that's where the "being beaten regularly" comment comes from then so be it, but he's still going to be the favourite or 2nd favourite to win every Slam that comes around. Basically, I think 2012 won't see a repeat of the incredible W/L ratio that he's got this year, but he'll still be the man to beat come the Slams, and you'd be mad to suggest that he won't at least add to that number and do so for the next 2-3 years.

As I've said before, and as you said matt, you don't go 64-2 and win 3 Slams and 5 Masters if you're a "good" player. A good player is someone like Ferrer, Berdych ect.

 

[Caesar]

It is. You don't go 64-2 as just a hot streak. It's like you think this has been fluke, rather insulting really. The thing he hasn't just been winning this many matches, he has thrashing a lot of oppoenents and a lot of them are top players. I do think he will drop a level at times, yes, of course that's going to happen but he's so far ahead of the field at the moment, it's ridiculous, results back me up there.

I think you're overrating how far he is above the competition, and how long he can really maintain playing at this level.

Everyone's jumped on the Djokovic bandwagon and getting excited about streaks but in a year or so you'll be the ones scratching your heads and wondering why he's suddenly back with the pack.

 

[Drummond]

I think you're overrating how far he is above the competition, and how long he can really maintain playing at this level.

Everyone's jumped on the Djokovic bandwagon and getting excited about streaks but in a year or so you'll be the ones scratching your heads and wondering why he's suddenly back with the pack.

Yeah, totally the same and all, cause they're the same ages and everything.

Oh I see you edited your post, wise move. While you're at it though, should go back and edit every post over the past two pages.

 

[Caesar]

It distracted from my point. Was trying to be more concise.

Plenty of examples though. Courier, Hewitt, Kuerten, Federer - one day they're virtually untouchable by 90% of the tour, the next day they've lost a step and are eminently beatable.

Of course a fanboy like yourself blows his load every time a player gets on a hot streak, and thinks it's the second coming.

 

[Drummond]

It distracted from my point. Was trying to be more concise.

Plenty of examples though. Courier, Hewitt, Kuerten, Federer - one day they're virtually untouchable by 90% of the tour, the next day they've lost a step and are eminently beatable.

Spot the odd one out, anyone?

Gustavo Kuerten, eminently beatable on anything other than clay. Reached the second week of non-clay Slams rarely in his career. Hewitt, Courtier, both great players, but neither experienced the levels of domination Djokovic currently is. Can't believe you'd even put Federer in that group, but given you did, he was untouchable, but his old age by tour standards, coupled by the rise of two great players, has meant he's declined. So you're saying no one saw a 29/30 year decline coming? Really?

Of course a fanboy like yourself blows his load every time a player gets on a hot streak, and thinks it's the second coming.

Shaking my head at this, really. A 'fanboy like myself', such maturity, it's astounding!

 

[rideclutch]

C'mon guys, keep it civil.

I think there is some merit to what Caesar is saying. Wouldn't go as far as to say Djokovic's form is merely a hot streak, as I feel that slightly detracts from the amount of hard work and preparation he's done this season. In my eyes he has improved his game, albeit not drastically.

However in regards to him having a Grand Slam year in 2012, which I believe was what started this argument, we only have to go back to last year to see how fortunes can change. No one could see how Rafa was going to get beaten (in slams at least), and it was generally accepted he would dominate for years to come. Then Djokovic stepped up to his level of not only physicality, but mental intensity too.

There's no doubt Novak has been 'in the zone' mentally for quite some time now, but I believe even a slight drop or raise in this area is what separates the top 3 on any given day. Whilst I do not wish to take anything away from Novak's brilliant year, you have to question whether or not Roger/Rafa have been at their absolute mental peak this year. I don't believe they have, and I think Novak has seized his oppurtunity with both hands. For me, Novaks superior mentality this year was a more significant part to his success than his on-court abilities.

 

[Drummond]

Who the heck is saying he's going to win all 4 in 2012? And keep it civil? Caesar's the one sprouting rubbish.

And Roger's 30, if he wasn't at his 'mental peak' thihs year, how exactly is that going to improve next year, and the year after? Rafa wasn't at his mental peak because he struggles with Novak's game, that's a fact. If he played the way he did yesterday against anyone else, he would've defended his title.

 

[getthefooty]

Unlike you, I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I merely go from history that shows players do tend to develop very rapidly from competitive to dominant. And drop off the same way. Particularly when they play a physical style of tennis.


He's a good tennis player who's had a great 9 months, at a time when his two main rivals are extremely vulnerable. He's not a tennis player who is going to win multiple slams a year for several years. The bandwagoning on this forum is ridiculous.

If he somehow manages to accumulate 10 Slams it will be a damning indictment of the quality of the ATP Tour over the next few years.

IMO you are the one being presumptuous by assuming that if he continues to dominate it will be because of the poorness of his contemporaries. You're arguing that you don't believe Djokovic will win 10 slams because he's not that good, but if he does, well then it's only because he would be up against no one. That's not really allowing him the opportunity to prove that his current form is sustainable.

Let's make no mistake, Federer and Nadal are obviously 'vulnerable' now as you say, but these are inarguably two of the greatest players to have ever lived. To be matching it and beating these guys at all is surely a sign Djokovic is on the way to being a great player.

I have never been the greatest fan of him over his career - the prankster when things are all happy, but his mentality can dissipate quickly if things turns against him. I would even say like you I am skeptical over whether he can continue this form. However his achievements over the past year have forced me to reconsider him as a player and I will now watch his career with interest.

 

[rideclutch]

Who the heck is saying he's going to win all 4 in 2012? And keep it civil? Caesar's the one sprouting rubbish.

Nole. Grand Slam year awaits.

That was followed by Caesar's rebuttal. And relax, I'm not pointing the finger at you, as I generally like your posts. Just saying this topic doesn't need to get personal.

And Roger's 30, if he wasn't at his 'mental peak' thihs year, how exactly is that going to improve next year, and the year after?

Perhaps I worded it wrong, but in Roger's case I never suggested that his mental strength would improve next year. I just said he wasn't at his peak this year. Maybe he'll never win another major, or maybe he'll come back strong. Who knows? Doesn't change my opinion on the fact that the most important victory of the season was won between Novak's ears, and not his on court prowess.

Rafa wasn't at his mental peak because he struggles with Novak's game, that's a fact. If he played the way he did yesterday against anyone else, he would've defended his title.

Yes he does struggle with Novak's game, and I do think some of those finals losses did partly affect Rafa's mindset, but again, all I'm suggesting is that Novak's mental strength and toughness has been superior to his opposition this year, which I believe has been more important than his actual tennis ability. His game has improved, but I don't feel to an extent where he should have gone 64-2 on ability alone. Andy Murray probably has a more complete allround game than Rafa, but if he had half of Novaks mental application of this year, he might have won a slam by now himself.

@getthefooty: Great post

 

[Dagger5]

You can't compare Djokovic with Hewitt, Courier and Kuerten as he is a much more complete player. He is the best in the world from the baseline, best backhand, one of the top forehands and he is the best returner in the game. He has improved his fitness dramatically so to downplay his acheivement as just being a hot streak is insulting.

As for Federer he was never the strongest person mentally, but his sheer talent enabled him to crush opponents. As he is getting older he has choked more and more matches away.

 

[Warsaw]

Damn.

Nole shall continue to win every grand slam till he retires...

But i do have my doubts.